Noahs Ark

[darkendless]

The Ark was a rectangular chest-like vessel with square corners and a flat bottom. It needed no rounded boat bottom or a sharp bow to cut through water. The Ark required no steering. Such a rectangle shape is very stable, it can not be easily capsized, and contained about 1/3 more storage space than a ship of conventional design.

A square shaped vessel would break significantly easier than a round vessel. This is because the force upon the seaward face would be concentrated. As a result the force distribution would be minimal and it would break under smaller loads.

A square ship can be capsized, but it wouldn't, it would break before capsizing.

 

[Amill]

The Ark was a rectangular chest-like vessel with square corners and a flat bottom. It needed no rounded boat bottom or a sharp bow to cut through water. The Ark required no steering. Such a rectangle shape is very stable, it can not be easily capsized, and contained about 1/3 more storage space than a ship of conventional design.

How exactly did the kangaroos make it back to Australia lol(since no steering was involved). How did ANY species make it back lol.

Especially with these things swimming around

And other nasty guys.

And not one out of any pair got eaten? I'd consider that amazing, but I guess these guys must have been pretty full after the massive buffet god gave them with the flood.

 

[Autodidact]

URA: There is not a trained geologist on earth who thinks there was a worlwide flood 4000-6000 years ago. There are many reasons for this. Here's one: (It's science, but it's not too hard, so please try to follow along.)

Sediments form on the bottoms of lakes, from the particles of earth that settle there. They form mud at the bottom. After millions of years of pressure, these harden into sedimentary rocks. In the summer, the layer is darker, from the organic matter in the soil. In the winter, it's lighter, as sand blows in. So you get 2 layers per year, that make a striped pattern. Much later, the lake is gone, and eventually you get striped layers of rocks where the lake was. If there is an upheaval, you can see the many layers of sedimentary rocks, with each dark/light stripe corresponding to a single year. They are called varves, and they look like this:

See the stripes? Each pair of stripes = 1 year.

So, if you have some poor graduate students to do it, it's possible to actually count the period that the lake was there pretty much undisturbed, continuously, with no major flood.

You guessed it. Those clever geologists have done this for many locations all over the world. And in many of them, there has not been a flood for thousands and sometimes millions of years.

In just one example, the Green River formation (not far from me) there are many outcrops like this:

Eventually, they have been able to piece together 6 million years without a major flood.

Another famous one is Lake Suigetsu in Japan, where they have very clear 50,000 layers.

So we know that there has been no flood in these particular locations during that time period. When there is a flood, we can clearly see the extra thick layer of sediment when it happened. In this way, we can look for and find evidence of ancient floods. And it's just one of the many ways there has not been a worldwide flood.

 

[Amhairghine]

The Ark was a rectangular chest-like vessel with square corners and a flat bottom. It needed no rounded boat bottom or a sharp bow to cut through water. The Ark required no steering. Such a rectangle shape is very stable, it can not be easily capsized, and contained about 1/3 more storage space than a ship of conventional design.

The Ark had no method of locomotion. The Bible does not mention sails, oars, paddle wheel, and steam engine motor with a propeller. There is no mention of a diesel engine or nuclear power plant. The boat could not move, only drift aimlessly.

The Ark had no mechanism for travelling across the oceans to gather regional animals from Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand, Madagascar, Africa, North and South America, Caribbean Islands, Philippines, Indonesian Islands, Sri Lanka Japan, Taiwan, the Aleutians, and the more remote parts of Asia, North America, Spitsbergen, Iceland, Greenland, and Ireland.

The animals could not swim across those vast stretches of water. Fresh water fish could not swim from Mesopotamia across thousands of miles of seawater to reach the rivers of the Amazon System.

The rectangular box could not have gotten to those places to collect the animals and afterward could not deliver them back to where they originally evolved.

Noah's Magic Flood never happened. There was no Ark. There were only regional floods that may have been exaggerated by the Middle Bronze Age people who lacked scientific knowledge but easily made up stories of ridiculous magic.

What is important to me is the twisted sick morality of Noah's Flood. Was it because some adult humans sinned? The Killer God JHWY murdered all of the humans (men, women, children, babies, and pregnant women all over the pretend Earth drowning them. He only saved the few wankers of Noah's Family. He let Noah save a handful of animal pairs, but he killed a million million non-human animals who were not capable of sin. The story is one of needless sadistic rage and killing. What kind of God like that deserves worship and not hate?

Amhairghine

 

[Amhairghine]

URA: There is not a trained geologist on earth who thinks there was a worlwide flood 4000-6000 years ago. There are many reasons for this. Here's one: (It's science, but it's not too hard, so please try to follow along.)

Sediments form on the bottoms of lakes, from the particles of earth that settle there. They form mud at the bottom. After millions of years of pressure, these harden into sedimentary rocks. In the summer, the layer is darker, from the organic matter in the soil. In the winter, it's lighter, as sand blows in. So you get 2 layers per year, that make a striped pattern. Much later, the lake is gone, and eventually you get striped layers of rocks where the lake was. If there is an upheaval, you can see the many layers of sedimentary rocks, with each dark/light stripe corresponding to a single year. They are called varves, and they look like this:

See the stripes? Each pair of stripes = 1 year.

So, if you have some poor graduate students to do it, it's possible to actually count the period that the lake was there pretty much undisturbed, continuously, with no major flood.

You guessed it. Those clever geologists have done this for many locations all over the world. And in many of them, there has not been a flood for thousands and sometimes millions of years.

In just one example, the Green River formation (not far from me) there are many outcrops like this:

Eventually, they have been able to piece together 6 million years without a major flood.

Another famous one is Lake Suigetsu in Japan, where they have very clear 50,000 layers.

So we know that there has been no flood in these particular locations during that time period. When there is a flood, we can clearly see the extra thick layer of sediment when it happened. In this way, we can look for and find evidence of ancient floods. And it's just one of the many ways there has not been a worldwide flood.

Excellent post.

Thanks,

Amhairghine

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Where does it say light/ darkness were created before sun/moon?

Your Genesis says.....

1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.​

In order to have light there must be a light source. Although your god "created light" here he had not, at this point created the sun. He proceeds to create vegetation on the planet without creating the sun first. Basic biology tells us plants need the sun in order to live. Let's proceed.....


1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth........

1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and Elohim saw that it was good.​

​

Note that this is BEFORE the creation of the sun.




1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.​

Now all that was 1st and 3rd day. It is the very next day when your god creates the light in heaven to shine on the earth (sun). Now you can't have it both ways. It is often said that one day to God is like a thousand years to man....then you mean to tell me plants and trees are growing on the earth for a thousand years without the aid of the sun which had not been created yet? Even if it was literally one day, it still wouldn't make sense.


1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:​

1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.​

Here's where your god finally gets around to creating the sun. Interesting isn't it that your god created vegetation on a desolate planet before creating the sun that would actually keep them alive? Was it one day or a thousand years....?



1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.​

Wait, wait a "HOT" minute here.....what is the "greater light and the "lesser light"....? There is only one light source when it comes to the sun and the moon.....Guess what...? The moon DOES NOT produce light.


So..........what "light" ("let there be light") did he create if he actually hadn't created the sun or the stars?....Just for kicks and giggles....An unknown fact to the bible writers of the time, you know...the ones who thought the earth was flat, the sun IS A STAR.....:sarcastic

​

​

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The churches of the dark ages taught the earth was flat. Isaiah ((40:22) talks about the circle of the earth. Anyone, even in Isaiah's day, could have looked up at our sun (our star) and moon and saw the ball or circular shape.

The greater light would be the sun and the lesser light would be the reflected moonlight.
we still see that lesser light at night.

What makes you say God had not created the sun (sunlight) in verse 3. Just because there is no mention of the word sun does not mean the sun was not there.

Doesn't verse 14 gives the purpose of those already existing lights?

Verse 16 does not use the word 'create' but the word 'made'. There is a difference.
Parents can create (in a sense) a child. Parents can also 'make' a child do something such as be made to sit in a chair.
So when verse 16 says God 'made' it is saying what they were made to rule over, and not that they were created at that time.

It seems as if the word create is being substituted in thought for the word made.
They are two different Hebrew words. Just like 'create and made' can have different meanings in the English language.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A square shaped vessel would break significantly easier than a round vessel. This is because the force upon the seaward face would be concentrated. As a result the force distribution would be minimal and it would break under smaller loads.

A square ship can be capsized, but it wouldn't, it would break before capsizing.

But wasn't the Ark was Not square but a rectangle in shape?
So why keep saying square ship for a rectangle ?
A ship does not have a flat bottom.

 

[richardlowellt]

But wasn't the Ark was Not square but a rectangle in shape?
So why keep saying square ship for a rectangle ?
A ship does not have a flat bottom.

Square, rectangle, makes no difference, it would have been a floating coffin. With no way to attack the giant seas it would have been dashed to bits. There is a reason ships have a "pointy" end to them, it's a design that makes them have at least a fighting chance in the open seas. Why is it, every depiction of the Ark shows it with a "boat" like shape? And now you tell us it's a tar coated rectangle!! Do you really know how silly that sounds?

 

[Vile Atheist]

Do you really know how silly that sounds?

It only sounds silly to those of us without faith

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Isaiah ((40:22) talks about the circle of the earth.

Proves my point still. If you look at the word being used it is used in two other places in your bible Job 22:14 and Proverbs 8:27. Take a look at them. Job renders the word (circuit). This is not a spherical or oval shape, rather it's a (FLAT) circle. This is where we get the idea of "Circuit Training" from (flat circle). Now observe Proverbs 8:27. They render the word as compass. If you know anything about a compass you would know it teaches you nothing about the circumference of the planet. It gives you a direction (N, S E and W) in a complete (FLAT) circle.

The greater light would be the sun and the lesser light would be the reflected moonlight.
we still see that lesser light at night.

Great word play but that's NOT at all what your bible says. Read it again. "He created the great lights". This indicates he made/fashioned two separate lights (plural). One for ruling the day and the other for ruling the night. Since we know there is only one source this is impossible. Notice he creates the stars AFTER this process of creating the separate lights and as I indicated....the bible writers were unaware the sun is, in itself, a star.

What makes you say God had not created the sun (sunlight) in verse 3. Just because there is no mention of the word sun does not mean the sun was not there.

Doesn't verse 14 gives the purpose of those already existing lights?

Verse 16 does not use the word 'create' but the word 'made'. There is a difference.

So when verse 16 says God 'made' it is saying what they were made to rule over, and not that they were created at that time.

It seems as if the word create is being substituted in thought for the word made.
They are two different Hebrew words. Just like 'create and made' can have different meanings in the English language.

Your scripture, especially Genesis shows your god using the words create and made interchangeably thus, in various places giving the same meaning. In Genesis 2:4 he uses both.......well, the men who wrote it use then interchangeably.

Now all of this is just to show how inconsistent the book is but before we continue it's helpful to note that we must be careful before we get too off track.

The story of Noah is a rehashed version of the sumerian flood myth. The logistics on such a boat, the vast amount of animals the boat had to contain, the time in the water, the water conditions (sea salt), the weather...etc...etc...etc... means it is highly unlikely the story is anything but a myth

 

[averageJOE]

Noah was told to make a tso'har for the Ark (Gen 6:16) and was to be completed to the extent of a cubit upward.

The tso'har provided light and ventilation. The roof could have had angled sides to permit water to flow off.

Since the mountains were covered with water the Ark would not hit them.
There is nothing to indicated the mountains were as high as they are now because the waters would have made changes in the land surface.

The Ark was a rectangular chest-like vessel with square corners and a flat bottom. It needed no rounded boat bottom or a sharp bow to cut through water. The Ark required no steering. Such a rectangle shape is very stable, it can not be easily capsized, and contained about 1/3 more storage space than a ship of conventional design.

How can you say that the Ark couldn't have slammed into a mountain? Weather you believe the flood was global or regional it would have been violent. More so if it were global. There would have been violent waves. And the Ark would have been at the mercy of those waves. Don't kid yourself, not only would it have slammed into trees and mountains but debris that those waves picked up would also slam ito it. Hence, that thing would have broken into a million pieces.

So just use you commen sense and picture the senerio:
You got this giant wooden, tar covered rectangle loaded down with animals and supplies with limited ventilation being tossed around by giant waves for 40 days and nights. And after those 40 days they still stayed inside for a year.

Can you honestly tell yourself that a giant wooden rectangle covered with tar would stay in one piece through all that?

Can you honestly tell yourself that at the end of all that that all the humans and animals would just be able to walk out of that thing?

How did Noah keep those animals from getting hurt? Not only would the Ark get tossed around but everything inside of it would too. Are you going to say that he kept all the animals tied down for 40 days? How did he keep them calm?

I'm sorry, global or regional it dosn't matter, cause nothing would have survived inside of that thing for a year.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Hebrew word translated as circle is HHug or Chug which has to do with the horizon.

The rotund appearance of the sky viewed from the earth is rotund and some versions use the word vault which would be like a vault rather than a flat circle.

The first creative day the word 'created' is used. Creative day three the word 'made' is used. Verse 16 does Not say create. God made the greater light (sun) to rule the day.
God made the lesser light (moon) to rule the night. The purpose of the sun was to rule the day and it does. The purpose of the moon is to rule the night and it does.


As far as the Ark: We do not know exactly how steep any mountains were. Before the water pressure from the water canopy (firmament) or the expanse of the waters suspended above the expanse that remained there from the second 'day' of creation until the flood. The mountains could not have been lower and not as steep as now. The water pressure could have pushed the earth's surface to make the land area with more peaks and valleys. Since the Bible is silent about the waves there is no way of knowing what more took place. Bears hibernate so isn't there the possibility hibernation could have been divinely used or partly used?
The Ark had a volume of about 1,400,000 cubic feet.
How would one know that ventilation was limited? Gen 6:16 a.

As far as the 40 days of rain.... Here is the Genesis time-frame account.
What is recorded in Genesis (7:24-8:4) is that the waters overwhelmed the earth for
150 days. So the period from when the waters overwhelmed the earth to the time they receded was 150 days, or five months with the Ark coming to rest on Mt Ararat.
Genesis (8:5-17) shows the tops of the mountains appeared nearly two-and-a-half months (73 days) later. Three months later (90) days later, Noah removed the covering of the Ark. One month and 27 days (57 days) later the earth dried off and Noah came out onto dry ground. A total of 370 days were spent in the Ark (Gen 8:14) that would include the 40 days plus the seven days of Gen (7:10). But the Ark was not floating all of that time but it was for five months or 150 days.

Since I am using the Bible as the source there are accounts of Jesus having control over the weather as to the time when he calmed the storm at sea. Somehow the Ark was protected, and there reportedly seems to be remains of it on Mt Ararat.
With the Ark on suitable terrain, why couldn't they have lived in enough comfort for the remaining time?

 

[darkendless]

The Hebrew word translated as circle is HHug or Chug which has to do with the horizon.

The rotund appearance of the sky viewed from the earth is rotund and some versions use the word vault which would be like a vault rather than a flat circle.

The first creative day the word 'created' is used. Creative day three the word 'made' is used. Verse 16 does Not say create. God made the greater light (sun) to rule the day.
God made the lesser light (moon) to rule the night. The purpose of the sun was to rule the day and it does. The purpose of the moon is to rule the night and it does.


As far as the Ark: We do not know exactly how steep any mountains were. Before the water pressure from the water canopy (firmament) or the expanse of the waters suspended above the expanse that remained there from the second 'day' of creation until the flood. The mountains could not have been lower and not as steep as now. The water pressure could have pushed the earth's surface to make the land area with more peaks and valleys. Since the Bible is silent about the waves there is no way of knowing what more took place. Bears hibernate so isn't there the possibility hibernation could have been divinely used or partly used?
The Ark had a volume of about 1,400,000 cubic feet.
How would one know that ventilation was limited? Gen 6:16 a.

As far as the 40 days of rain.... Here is the Genesis time-frame account.
What is recorded in Genesis (7:24-8:4) is that the waters overwhelmed the earth for
150 days. So the period from when the waters overwhelmed the earth to the time they receded was 150 days, or five months with the Ark coming to rest on Mt Ararat.
Genesis (8:5-17) shows the tops of the mountains appeared nearly two-and-a-half months (73 days) later. Three months later (90) days later, Noah removed the covering of the Ark. One month and 27 days (57 days) later the earth dried off and Noah came out onto dry ground. A total of 370 days were spent in the Ark (Gen 8:14) that would include the 40 days plus the seven days of Gen (7:10). But the Ark was not floating all of that time but it was for five months or 150 days.

Since I am using the Bible as the source there are accounts of Jesus having control over the weather as to the time when he calmed the storm at sea. Somehow the Ark was protected, and there reportedly seems to be remains of it on Mt Ararat.
With the Ark on suitable terrain, why couldn't they have lived in enough comfort for the remaining time?

In a storm of significance the ark would have smashed to pieces being made of wood. Nothing you could do could protect it from severe damage.

If you're going to believe this flood existed i guess you might as well believe the Ark was protected. Pretty silly though.

 

[rusra02]

The Ark had no method of locomotion. The Bible does not mention sails, oars, paddle wheel, and steam engine motor with a propeller. There is no mention of a diesel engine or nuclear power plant. The boat could not move, only drift aimlessly.

The Ark had no mechanism for travelling across the oceans to gather regional animals from Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand, Madagascar, Africa, North and South America, Caribbean Islands, Philippines, Indonesian Islands, Sri Lanka Japan, Taiwan, the Aleutians, and the more remote parts of Asia, North America, Spitsbergen, Iceland, Greenland, and Ireland.

The animals could not swim across those vast stretches of water. Fresh water fish could not swim from Mesopotamia across thousands of miles of seawater to reach the rivers of the Amazon System.

The rectangular box could not have gotten to those places to collect the animals and afterward could not deliver them back to where they originally evolved.

Noah's Magic Flood never happened. There was no Ark. There were only regional floods that may have been exaggerated by the Middle Bronze Age people who lacked scientific knowledge but easily made up stories of ridiculous magic.

What is important to me is the twisted sick morality of Noah's Flood. Was it because some adult humans sinned? The Killer God JHWY murdered all of the humans (men, women, children, babies, and pregnant women all over the pretend Earth drowning them. He only saved the few wankers of Noah's Family. He let Noah save a handful of animal pairs, but he killed a million million non-human animals who were not capable of sin. The story is one of needless sadistic rage and killing. What kind of God like that deserves worship and not hate?

Amhairghine

Jesus Christ believed in the Flood of Noah's day and reported on it as established fact, as does the rest of the Bible. I do understand your feelings for children. Still, God holds parents accountable for the outcome to their offspring. Genesis speaks of the pre-Flood world as "full of violence", and "ruined" because "All flesh had ruined its way upon the earth". (Gen. 6:11,12)
Do you suppose the children of that world were spared the violence being done? Consider the violence filling the earth today, and how many innocents are suffering and dying as a result.

As for the animals, Jehovah God created them, the Earth, and mankind. He owns the Earth and what fills it, and can take destructive action when warranted. He is entirely just and righteous in doing so. The Bible says Jehovah takes no delight in the death of the wicked. So if he destroys a person, that person merits destruction.

Remember what Jesus said about people in Noah’s day. They were “eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away.” (Matthew 24:38, 39) Noah warned people that the Flood was coming, but they did not listen to him. They continued to do bad things. What was wrong was their preoccupation with everything else to the exclusion of listening to God when he spoke through his servant Noah, “a preacher of righteousness.” (2 Peter 2:5) Because they did not listen, when the Flood came it “swept them all away” into destruction.

Many of those who died in the Flood no doubt considered themselves “nice” people, not being involved in the violence that filled society in those days. But just being “nice” did not save them. By their apathy they condoned the evil of their day. The situation is similar today. Jesus used the Flood as a warning example.​

He said: “Just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be."
This wicked world is full of violence, just as was the case in Noah's day. Today, the good news of God's Kingdom is being preached by true Christians. And as in Noah's day, the majority of mankind 'take no note'. The outcome today will be the same. God will destroy those who either actively or tacitly are ruining the earth with violence and evil deeds. (Revelation 11:18)

Whether we like it or not, whether we believe it or not, we are accountable to the true God who created us and sustains our life, whose name is Jehovah. He has promised that when this system ends, and it will end soon, everyone then "will have to know that I am Jehovah." (Ezekiel 38:23) The course of wisdom is to come to know Jehovah and do his will, so that like Noah, we can survive this wicked system's end and enjoy the blessings of everlasting life promised in the Bible. (John 17:3)

 

[richardlowellt]

Jesus Christ believed in the Flood of Noah's day and reported on it as established fact, as does the rest of the Bible. I do understand your feelings for children. Still, God holds parents accountable for the outcome to their offspring. Genesis speaks of the pre-Flood world as "full of violence", and "ruined" because "All flesh had ruined its way upon the earth". (Gen. 6:11,12)
Do you suppose the children of that world were spared the violence being done? Consider the violence filling the earth today, and how many innocents are suffering and dying as a result.

As for the animals, Jehovah God created them, the Earth, and mankind. He owns the Earth and what fills it, and can take destructive action when warranted. He is entirely just and righteous in doing so. The Bible says Jehovah takes no delight in the death of the wicked. So if he destroys a person, that person merits destruction.

Remember what Jesus said about people in Noah’s day. They were “eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away.” (Matthew 24:38, 39) Noah warned people that the Flood was coming, but they did not listen to him. They continued to do bad things. What was wrong was their preoccupation with everything else to the exclusion of listening to God when he spoke through his servant Noah, “a preacher of righteousness.” (2 Peter 2:5) Because they did not listen, when the Flood came it “swept them all away” into destruction.

Many of those who died in the Flood no doubt considered themselves “nice” people, not being involved in the violence that filled society in those days. But just being “nice” did not save them. By their apathy they condoned the evil of their day. The situation is similar today. Jesus used the Flood as a warning example.​

He said: “Just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be."
This wicked world is full of violence, just as was the case in Noah's day. Today, the good news of God's Kingdom is being preached by true Christians. And as in Noah's day, the majority of mankind 'take no note'. The outcome today will be the same. God will destroy those who either actively or tacitly are ruining the earth with violence and evil deeds. (Revelation 11:18)

Whether we like it or not, whether we believe it or not, we are accountable to the true God who created us and sustains our life, whose name is Jehovah. He has promised that when this system ends, and it will end soon, everyone then "will have to know that I am Jehovah." (Ezekiel 38:23) The course of wisdom is to come to know Jehovah and do his will, so that like Noah, we can survive this wicked system's end and enjoy the blessings of everlasting life promised in the Bible. (John 17:3)

Your god is a Demo god, no doubt about it. Not only a demon but self centered, arrogant, vain, self-absorbed, and egotistical. Any being that demand worship and absolute obedience possesses all of those traits. Would you kill your own children for misbehaving no matter what it is they has done? Would you kill other members of your family for the wrongs of one family member? This is suppose to be an all loving being, of course I know this is untrue, he is suppose to be loving and forgiving. This is a demon god because he is all powerful and could have solved the "sinful problem" any number of ways, but he chose instead to commit genocide which ranks hi right up there with Adolf Hitler. I can only say I am sure glad non of this is true, but if I were you I would be totally embarrassed trying to justify this demon god.

 

[rusra02]

Your god is a Demo god, no doubt about it. Not only a demon but self centered, arrogant, vain, self-absorbed, and egotistical. Any being that demand worship and absolute obedience possesses all of those traits. Would you kill your own children for misbehaving no matter what it is they has done? Would you kill other members of your family for the wrongs of one family member? This is suppose to be an all loving being, of course I know this is untrue, he is suppose to be loving and forgiving. This is a demon god because he is all powerful and could have solved the "sinful problem" any number of ways, but he chose instead to commit genocide which ranks hi right up there with Adolf Hitler. I can only say I am sure glad non of this is true, but if I were you I would be totally embarrassed trying to justify this demon god.

At 1 John 4:8, the apostle states a fundamental truth: “God is love.” Then, in verse 16 he adds emphasis, saying: “God is love, and he that remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him.” It is because of his love for mankind that Jehovah purposes to cleanse this earth of all wickedness. Our loving, merciful God declares: “As I am alive, . . . I take delight, not in the death of the wicked one, but in that someone wicked turns back from his way and actually keeps living. Turn back, turn back from your bad ways, for why is it that you should die?”—Ezekiel 33:11.
Jehovah knows for the peace and welfare of all he has created, men must know who the true God is and accept that he is earth's rightful sovereign.
God's destruction of the wicked is an act of love on his part since, if left unchecked, wicked men would destroy all that God has made. Our ignoring the one who created us would be like a small child who tells his parents he doesn't have to listen to them and he can go live by himself. His parents know that child needs protection and direction, regardless of how the child feels about it.
Jehovah will not coerce or force anyone to serve him. Each person must make their own decision. God holds parents accountable for the decision they make in behalf of their children. Speaking of God, 2 Peter 3:9 says: "He is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." Still, by his past deeds God has made plain he will destroy those who do not accept his rulership and choose to ignore their maker and life giver.

 

[averageJOE]

As far as the Ark: We do not know exactly how steep any mountains were. Before the water pressure from the water canopy (firmament) or the expanse of the waters suspended above the expanse that remained there from the second 'day' of creation until the flood. The mountains could not have been lower and not as steep as now. The water pressure could have pushed the earth's surface to make the land area with more peaks and valleys. Since the Bible is silent about the waves there is no way of knowing what more took place.

Ok...so the water pressure from the flood was strong enough to "push the earth's surface" but not strong enough to smash a wooden box?? A global flood, or regional, would involve violent waves. There are thousands of things the bible is "silent about". No matter how you try to spin it the ark would have smashed into many things.

Bears hibernate so isn't there the possibility hibernation could have been divinely used or partly used?

Ummm...don't know the point you were trying to make here. Is this your answer to the question of how did Noah keep the animals from getting hurt? Hibernation? Or divine hibernation?? Your suggesting that the thousands, actually millions, of animals aboard the ark they slept while getting thrown around?

The Ark had a volume of about 1,400,000 cubic feet.
How would one know that ventilation was limited? Gen 6:16 a.

Common sense. Do you honestly think that a tso'har would provide enough air ventilation for the millions of animals? The tso'har could not have been too big otherwise flood water would have gotten inside. You have millions of animals scared for their lives breathing heavily while standing in their own waste and you ask how one would know if ventilation was limited?

As far as the 40 days of rain.... Here is the Genesis time-frame account.
What is recorded in Genesis (7:24-8:4) is that the waters overwhelmed the earth for
150 days. So the period from when the waters overwhelmed the earth to the time they receded was 150 days, or five months with the Ark coming to rest on Mt Ararat.
Genesis (8:5-17) shows the tops of the mountains appeared nearly two-and-a-half months (73 days) later. Three months later (90) days later, Noah removed the covering of the Ark. One month and 27 days (57 days) later the earth dried off and Noah came out onto dry ground. A total of 370 days were spent in the Ark (Gen 8:14) that would include the 40 days plus the seven days of Gen (7:10). But the Ark was not floating all of that time but it was for five months or 150 days.

Ok fine. So your saying that Noah was able to keep 370 days worth of fresh water, fresh plants, and fresh meat for all the animals without refrigeration?

Since I am using the Bible as the source there are accounts of Jesus having control over the weather as to the time when he calmed the storm at sea. Somehow the Ark was protected, and there reportedly seems to be remains of it on Mt Ararat.
With the Ark on suitable terrain, why couldn't they have lived in enough comfort for the remaining time?

So after all of that your going to argue "the ark was protected by magic"?

 

[averageJOE]

Jesus Christ believed in the Flood of Noah's day and reported on it as established fact, as does the rest of the Bible. I do understand your feelings for children. Still, God holds parents accountable for the outcome to their offspring. Genesis speaks of the pre-Flood world as "full of violence", and "ruined" because "All flesh had ruined its way upon the earth". (Gen. 6:11,12)
Do you suppose the children of that world were spared the violence being done? Consider the violence filling the earth today, and how many innocents are suffering and dying as a result.

So in other words your saying its OK to kill babies, even unborn babies. Got it.

Oh, one question. If the world was so bad, full of violence and violent people, how was Noah able to build this ark without ever getting robbed? I mean, surley people knew he was building something big, he was running around warning everyone after all, which would mean that there would have been piles of wood and supplies laying around. Even a partially built ark with fresh wood out in the open. How did Noah keep all these violent people from stealing this wood?

As for the animals, Jehovah God created them, the Earth, and mankind. He owns the Earth and what fills it, and can take destructive action when warranted. He is entirely just and righteous in doing so. The Bible says Jehovah takes no delight in the death of the wicked. So if he destroys a person, that person merits destruction.

Remember what Jesus said about people in Noah’s day. They were “eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away.” (Matthew 24:38, 39) Noah warned people that the Flood was coming, but they did not listen to him. They continued to do bad things. What was wrong was their preoccupation with everything else to the exclusion of listening to God when he spoke through his servant Noah, “a preacher of righteousness.” (2 Peter 2:5) Because they did not listen, when the Flood came it “swept them all away” into destruction.​

Many of those who died in the Flood no doubt considered themselves “nice” people, not being involved in the violence that filled society in those days. But just being “nice” did not save them. By their apathy they condoned the evil of their day. The situation is similar today. Jesus used the Flood as a warning example. ​

He said: “Just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be."
This wicked world is full of violence, just as was the case in Noah's day. Today, the good news of God's Kingdom is being preached by true Christians. And as in Noah's day, the majority of mankind 'take no note'. The outcome today will be the same. God will destroy those who either actively or tacitly are ruining the earth with violence and evil deeds. (Revelation 11:18)

Whether we like it or not, whether we believe it or not, we are accountable to the true God who created us and sustains our life, whose name is Jehovah. He has promised that when this system ends, and it will end soon, everyone then "will have to know that I am Jehovah." (Ezekiel 38:23) The course of wisdom is to come to know Jehovah and do his will, so that like Noah, we can survive this wicked system's end and enjoy the blessings of everlasting life promised in the Bible. (John 17:3)

Yeah, we know God hates us all you don't have to keep reminding us. God killed the entire population by drowning them in a flood for being wicked , violent. and corrupt. Then afterwards the world went right back to being wicke, violent, and corrupt. Kinda pointless if you ask me.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The Hebrew word translated as circle is HHug or Chug which has to do with the horizon.

The rotund appearance of the sky viewed from the earth is rotund and some versions use the word vault which would be like a vault rather than a flat circle.

It would still be flat circle by the definition given. It doesn't mean (Sphere or ball). They had no real knowledge of astronomy. This is why they viewed their world as flat. From their point of view they could see in a complete circle around them. They thought their world extended from corner to corner not realizing their world was a (duwr - ball) instead of a (chuwg - circle/compass). Incidentally chuwg is what we find in a (mchuwgah - an instrument for making a circle i.e. compasses-compass).

The first creative day the word 'created' is used. Creative day three the word 'made' is used. Verse 16 does Not say create. God made the greater light (sun) to rule the day. God made the lesser light (moon) to rule the night. The purpose of the sun was to rule the day and it does. The purpose of the moon is to rule the night and it does.)

Nonsense....and if you believe this then you simply know nothing about astronomy. There is NO lesser light. It's all from the SAME light source. The moon does not rule the night because it produces NO Light. If it weren't for the sun shinning on the moon you probably wouldn't even be able to see it at night.

As far as the Ark: We do not know exactly how steep any mountains were. Before the water pressure from the water canopy (firmament) or the expanse of the waters suspended above the expanse that remained there from the second 'day' of creation until the flood. The mountains could not have been lower and not as steep as now. The water pressure could have pushed the earth's surface to make the land area with more peaks and valleys. Since the Bible is silent about the waves there is no way of knowing what more took place.

There simply isn't enough water in the sky or on the planet to cover it. No geologist, in his right mind, would even agree that a WWF flood is possible let alone happened as your bible describes. As far as waves...you've got to be kidding me.....! Not only do you know nothing of basic astronomy but it appears we can add your lack of geology to the list. I've actually NEVER heard of water being able to move land masses the way you're describing.

Bears hibernate so isn't there the possibility hibernation could have been divinely used or partly used?

NO....How's that for an easy answer. There's no reason for anyone to assume this. You're bible does not give any information such a thing happened. If it did there would no way of proving it did. You're trying to offer speculation as fact and that doesn't work here. In Sunday school...maybe....but here....NO...!

The Ark had a volume of about 1,400,000 cubic feet.
How would one know that ventilation was limited? Gen 6:16 a.

Any holes for vetilation would have to be high up on the boat so water wouldn't get in. This means there would probably not be that many holes on the boat which would means any animals would suffocate for breathing in the limited amount of air. There would be no way to filter the air so can you imagine the amount of carbon dioxide and methane in the air emitted by these animal with limited a limited amount of oxygen

YouTube - Messed-Up Bible Stories 4: Noah's Ark