shortfade2
Active Member
I would like to add that if it was a local flood, then the only animals needed would be the ones in that area. Which drastically cuts down the number.
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Noahs Ark
- Thread starter zodiacseven
- Start date
RE: number or animals:
Animals are capable of breeding only according to their 'kinds' as brought out in Genesis.
So the question would really be how many 'kinds' would Noah have on the Ark? Of the hundreds of thousands of species today are reduced to 'family kinds'.
We know breeding boundaries are not crossed, but within the family kinds they can. Noah would have needed just a pair from each family kind.
For example: 43 'kinds' of mammals, 74 'kinds' of birds, 10 'kinds' of reptiles with fish life being outside of the Ark.
Please note: I used the Hebrew word "chug / hhug" not mchuwgah.
Isn't the light form the lesser light (moon) reflected sunlight?
No where does Genesis say the lesser light had its own light.
The moon is also lesser is light in that moonlight it is not as bright as sunlight.
Isn't there the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:32 ? ____
(Hebrews 6:4-6)
Loving is more than just feelings. Isn't capital punishment used for some crimes? ___ Love protects the upright. Abraham (Gen 18:23) questioned God as to whether he would destroy the righteous with the wicked. By verse 32 Abraham knew it would be unthinkable for God to destroy any righteous ones. 2nd Peter (2:7,8) God delivered righteous Lot dwelling among the wicked.
What is embarrasing about (2Peter 3:9B) that God does Not desire any to be destroyed?
Yes, God could have chosen to end Adam and Eve's life immediately and then we would not be here. Since it is God's purpose to have the earth filled with good people, then he would not have wanted all people destroyed.
Satan never challenged God's power or strength. What Satan challenged is that No one would obey God of their own free will. Job (2:4) says all that a man has he will give for his life. (compromise). Please notice how we are involved in Satan's challenge or issue raised: "A man" implies "all" of us are involved in this challenge.
Did God make Hitler to be Hitler or did Hitler turn himself into what he became? Can we blame God for the wrong use of the gift of free will that he gave us? (Deut. 30:19; 32:5; Lev 1:3) Don't you want your children to love you of their own free choice and not because you forced them?
If you had a fine house infested with rats, would you get rid of your fine house or would you call an exterminator to rid the house of the rats?
Our earth is a fine home for us and if all rat-like people were removed wouldn't we have peace on earth? This is what Psalm (92:7) is indicating for us. Mankind can not solve the world's problems and if there would not be divine intervention for the upright (Proverbs 2:21,22:10:30) then only the wicked would be left. The people of Noah's day had reached the point that if they were not destroyed, then they would have been the destroyers of any one upright besides destroyers of themselves.
richardlowellt
Well-Known Member
I have 10 questions I would like for you to answer, if you can, involving this Ark.
1.) Explain how all these animals were gathered.
2.) Many animal require a very special diet, how was this achieved?
3.) Some cave dwellers can't survive in less that 100% relative humidity, how was this done?
4.) What exactly is a "kind" is it a species, or order?
5.) Collecting each species instead of genus would increase the numbers three-to fourfold.
6.) How was fresh food made available? (many species only feed on live food)
7.) With the lack of refrigeration how was all the food kept from rotting?
8.) If water was suspended in the atmosphere it would raise the oxygen and nitrogen levels to toxic levels.
9.) If this canopy of water was vapor it would be superheated "poaching" all life below.
10.) Any water above the ozone layer would not be shielded from ultraviolet light, and the light would break apart the water molecules.
This is but a short list of issues one MUST address in defense of this totally absurd event. If I were you just say, IT NEVER HAPPENED!!!
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
My point exactly. The word that could have been used to describe the spherical or at least the roundness of the earth could have been (duwr - ball). Instead we get (chuwg - circle, compass).
Take Daniel 4:11 for instance;
Daniel 4:11
Upon my bed this is what I saw; there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth.
If they knew the earth was a spherical shape then how does one reach the "end of the earth"? Simple. There is no way. Their world was the complete circle in their peripheral vision. Now, where is "the earth's center"....?
If Isaiah is your claim to fame then it is a weak one. Here's why....
Isaiah 40:22
he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in
If they are under the impression the whole earth was spherical then how would a tent cover it? No they saw their world in a 360 degree view. One can see how their god could spread his tent over the whole circle if you see in a 360 degree world view.
Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
What "ends of the earth"? If they new the earth was spherical they'd know it has no end. How do you shake one off or out of the earth unless you assume it's flat?
Observe Proverbs;
Proverbs 8:26-28
While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a (chuwg) compass upon the face of the depth. When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep.
In their view the earth was flat and in a 360 circle..as a compass would indicate.
Job 11:9
Its measure is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.
Deu 13:7
Any of the gods of the peoples that are around you, whether near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other
Josh 10:12-13
On the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the LORD; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand still at Gibeon, and Moon, in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in midheaven, and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.
This is impossible. You know,..... so I really shouldn't have to explain this too you.
Splitting hairs are we? What your bible says is that the light from the sun was created and the light from the moon was created. There is nothing there about light reflection. Shucks, I'm not even sure they had a word for reflect or reflection in Aramaic/Hebrew. Your god or bible writers are specific in conveying two separate lights were created at this point.....
Bware
I'm the Jugganaut!!
Genesis 1 3 Then God said, Let there be light; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
14 Then God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Right there that's where. And that's the New King James version FYI.
Bware
I'm the Jugganaut!!
Naw Goddidit remember?
That explains everything, lol whenever approached with a statement like this, Most abrahamic theists will respond "God can do anything, you have to have faith":faint:
Bware
I'm the Jugganaut!!
Great post. My thoughts exactly.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
What is a "kind?" About how many kinds would Noah have had on the ark?
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
dogs and foxes cant interbreed, so there is two kinds right there.... actually here is a fun fact, the red fox and the grey fox can't interbreed either... so much for just 43 "kinds" of mammals.
thats the problem with poorly defined "kinds"... makin' it up based on looks makes you look silly.
wa:do
thats the problem with poorly defined "kinds"... makin' it up based on looks makes you look silly.
wa:do
Biblical 'kinds' would be any such species or varieties within a division that allows for cross fertility within its limits. The boundary would be drawn at the point where fertilization ceases to occur. Has the unchangeable rule that 'kinds' can not cross a biological principle been successfully challenged? So each basic group is apart from other 'kinds'. Sterility continues to be the determining factor as to what makes up a 'kind'.
Estimates are that Noah would have needed 43 kinds of mammals, 74 kinds of bird life and 10 kinds of reptiles to have the amount of variety we see today.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Estimates by whom? Miss Kathy's pre-school class?
You just can't make this stuff up...
Oh wait. Apparently you can!
First, please note that there are two accounts of creation in Genesis and from two different viewpoints. The first account describes creation, heavens and earth and all in them from Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:4. Whereas, the second account from Genesis 2:5 to Genesis 4:26 concentrates on the creation of humans and the fall into imperfection.
Since you stressed the first day please note the word 'created' is used. Between verses 14-19 the word 'made' is used. These are two different Hebrew words not the same word translated differently.
Verse 16 does not use the word 'create' but the word 'made.' God made the already existing light to rule over day and night. God was giving the purpose of the already 'created light' (singular) of verses 3-5.
When the earth was created the sun already existed, but the overcast atmosphere of the new earth would Not have allowed bright light to filter through to the earth's surface, so the light would have appeared gradually over a period of time and not instantaneously like turning on a light bulb.
On the first day the Hebrew word for light was ohr which would be light in a general sense. Whereas on the fourth creative day the Hebrew word used is maohr which means source of light. By the fourth day the cloud layer that was enveloping the earth now had changed enough to let the already existing light shine through to the surface.
The Encyclopedia Americana indicates there are upwards of 1,300,000 species.
60% insects. 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals, 10,000 are birds, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians (many of those could have lived outside the ark) . 5,000 are mammals but that would include whales, porpoises which also would be outside the ark. Possibly there are about 290 land mammals larger than a sheep and 1,360 smaller than rats. So the capacity of the ark could have accommodated a pair of these animals.
Not exactly. Only about 1.4 million species have been named; the estimate for planetary species is usually around 10 million species, but some argue as many as 100 million species.
This nonsense has been beaten into the ground so often it's as much fun debating this as it is whether Kirk or Picard is the better captain (Picard by a landslide). The food issues- both where to store it and how to provide species specific diets, the salinity of the waters for aquatic life, etc., etc., are just not scientifically plausible. The fable is not capable of actual scientific analysis because once you attempt to do so the absurdities are insurmountable.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Brown Bears and Black Bears can't interbreed... (brown bears and polar bears can hybridize though).
So I guess the Black Bear is a different "kind" than the Brown Bear. (different genus anyway.)
AS for the size of animals on the ark... what size rat are we talking about?
something like this?
or something like this?
wa:do
So I guess the Black Bear is a different "kind" than the Brown Bear. (different genus anyway.)
AS for the size of animals on the ark... what size rat are we talking about?
something like this?
or something like this?
wa:do
How is it that millions of fishes are entombed at the top of mountain ranges?
richardlowellt
Well-Known Member
And you think that they were stranded there when this impossible flood receded? Look, I have a suggestion for you, do a little research on Earth history and geology, therein lies your answer. While we are at it explain why there is NO world wide single identifiable layer of sediment that HAS to be present if such an event took place, continue with an explanation of where 13.5 billion cubic MILES of extra water came from and then went, and as you can see from my post, floating above the Earth is no an option, why not try the underground answer that creationists sometimes use.
Now you have the job at hand awaiting you, answer and or respond to the 10 questions I have posted. I suggest you just make things simple for yourself and invoke god magic, it will make you look much less foolish.