Noahs Ark

[richardlowellt]

Ok. earth-wide. And all these people were descendents of the flood survivors. Thus rather than legends of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc. people around the earth have this flood legend. Interesting.

Descendants of the flood survivors? I guess god did a bad job of killing everyone except those o the Ark, the entire globe was covered with enough water to cover the highest mountains, how did any one or thing survive? How long can you tread water, what a ridiculous premise. You want it both ways God killed everyone one moment, and the next, because it supports you BS there were survivors who told about this impossible event, shame on you.

 

[Autodidact]

Here are some of your unresolved problems with a global flood:

1. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH WATER.
2. The ark could not float.
3. The animals could not have traveled to him from all over the world. (Think: sloths, polar bears, wombats, penguins.)
4. The animals could not possibly have fit.
a. Either there were millions of animals, who could not have fit.
b. Or there were fewer animals, and since then hyper-evolution has been creating new species every year.
5. It's impossible to bring provisions for all those animals for a year's travel. Bamboo for pandas? Eucalyptus for koalas? Fish for seals? Not even going into the huge problems with carnivores. What did they bring for the lions to eat?
6. Other care: exercise, waste disposal, etc.
7. Geological evidence. There's so much of it it would take years to cover, but the geological evidence of gradual evolution over millions of years, sedimentary layers that take millions of years to accumulate, flood channels now buried under ground, land traces, such as raindrops, then buried under sediment, occasional sedimentary flood layers, etc., etc. is overwhelming. That is why there's not a geologist on earth who accepts the flood. You simply cannot look at the actual evidence and reject it without being insane.
8. In particular, varves. Also ice cores, stalactites and coral reefs.
9. The fossil record is not consistent with a single disastrous flood, quite the contrary. Flying petradons appear lower in the record than moles. A flood cannot account for this.
10. More geology: layered fossil forests, one one top of another.
11. The plants could not have survived.
12. The fish and other aquatic species could not have survived.
13. Disease causing bacteria could not have survived.
14. The animals could not have gotten to their present geographic distribution. How did the pandas get to china, the sloth to South America, the wombat to Australia, and the Grizzly Bear to Alaska?
15. There is not record of such a flood in Egypt and Mesopotamia. These cultures kept records which are confirmed by other dating techniques.
16. There is not enough time for human population to have grown from under 100 to many billions.

Thanks to Mark Isaak. We look forward to your solutions to these problems.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Ok. earth-wide. And all these people were descendents of the flood survivors. Thus rather than legends of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc. people around the earth have this flood legend. Interesting.

Gee. I wonder why that might be. Could, perhaps, the fact that nascent culture by necessity evolved in close proximity to fresh water sources (as opposed to fault lines and volcanoes) have anything to do with the difference?

 

[shortfade2]

Here are some of your unresolved problems with a global flood:

1. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH WATER.
2. The ark could not float.
3. The animals could not have traveled to him from all over the world. (Think: sloths, polar bears, wombats, penguins.)
4. The animals could not possibly have fit.
a. Either there were millions of animals, who could not have fit.
b. Or there were fewer animals, and since then hyper-evolution has been creating new species every year.
5. It's impossible to bring provisions for all those animals for a year's travel. Bamboo for pandas? Eucalyptus for koalas? Fish for seals? Not even going into the huge problems with carnivores. What did they bring for the lions to eat?
6. Other care: exercise, waste disposal, etc.
7. Geological evidence. There's so much of it it would take years to cover, but the geological evidence of gradual evolution over millions of years, sedimentary layers that take millions of years to accumulate, flood channels now buried under ground, land traces, such as raindrops, then buried under sediment, occasional sedimentary flood layers, etc., etc. is overwhelming. That is why there's not a geologist on earth who accepts the flood. You simply cannot look at the actual evidence and reject it without being insane.
8. In particular, varves. Also ice cores, stalactites and coral reefs.
9. The fossil record is not consistent with a single disastrous flood, quite the contrary. Flying petradons appear lower in the record than moles. A flood cannot account for this.
10. More geology: layered fossil forests, one one top of another.
11. The plants could not have survived.
12. The fish and other aquatic species could not have survived.
13. Disease causing bacteria could not have survived.
14. The animals could not have gotten to their present geographic distribution. How did the pandas get to china, the sloth to South America, the wombat to Australia, and the Grizzly Bear to Alaska?
15. There is not record of such a flood in Egypt and Mesopotamia. These cultures kept records which are confirmed by other dating techniques.
16. There is not enough time for human population to have grown from under 100 to many billions.

Thanks to Mark Isaak. We look forward to your solutions to these problems.

Yes, we have gone over this about oh....six or seven BILLION TIMES! STOP BEING SO RePETITIVE AUTO!!!:ignore:

Auto....dont accuse others of being repetitive. "Remove the plank from your own eye before saying, 'brother let me pull that speck from your eye.'"

 

[tumbleweed41]

:ignore:

That about sums it up...

 

[Autodidact]

Yes, we have gone over this about oh....six or seven BILLION TIMES! STOP BEING SO RePETITIVE AUTO!!!:ignore:

Auto....dont accuse others of being repetitive. "Remove the plank from your own eye before saying, 'brother let me pull that speck from your eye.'"

The point, shortfade, is that none of these issues has been dealt with. I will continue to post them until flood proponents stop ignoring them. If necessary, I will repeat them in large colored fonts. Ignoring them does not make them go away, and posting the ideas they are responding to over and over without acknowledging that these objections have been raised is not effective.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Yes, we have gone over this about oh....six or seven BILLION TIMES! STOP BEING SO RePETITIVE AUTO!!!:ignore:

Real simple Shorty.

ANSWER them.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Really? What a very interesting claim, particularly given the fact that these (fully understandable) legends presumably arose at a time and within a people who had no knowledge of the Earth as a globe.

How do you know they had no knowledge of the earth as a globe?
They could easily look up at the moon and see its globe shape or even see a glimpse of a globe shaped sun.

 

[freethinker44]

How do you know they had no knowledge of the earth as a globe?
They could easily look up at the moon and see its globe shape or even see a glimpse of a globe shaped sun.

Globes have corners?

Revelation 7
7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth

Maybe this is why the rapture hasn't come yet. The angels are still trying to find the corners of a sphere they are supposed to stand on.

lol, god is cool.

 

[Autodidact]

How do you know they had no knowledge of the earth as a globe?
They could easily look up at the moon and see its globe shape or even see a glimpse of a globe shaped sun.

Have you read the Bible?!?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

First of all, Revelation has a lot of symbolism in it. Is the expression 'four winds of the earth' really that far off even in our expressions today? There are four direction (NEWS) often used to express direction. Sometimes we hear the expression 'to the ends of the earth' and we know that is not literal. We hear of the 'sun rise' and don't argue that that is not true even though we know the sun does not rise or set. Even the expression 'the sun traveled across the sky' we know what that means and know it is not literal.

Isaiah (11:12) wrote of gathering the dispersed ones from the four corners or extremities of the earth. The Hebrews would not have taken that literal either. Psalmist also wrote about the ends or extremities of the earth (22:27; 46:9). Also in Scripture the number four was often used to denote rounded out. Four square would have solid footing. So 'four' would be embracing all of the earth.
(Ezekiel 1:15-17; Luke 13:29).

So the four angels holding the four corners, holding the four winds (NEWS) is a vivid symbol of destructive judgment on 'wicked earthly society'. Look! a calamity is going forth from nation to nation.....from the remotest parts of the earth and those slain by God will certainly be from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth.
-Jeremiah (25:32,33). We know the earth does not have ends but we can understand the sense of embracing all the earth. At that time, God is making wars to cease to the end (extremity) of the earth- (Psalm 46:9). That results in peace on earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[freethinker44]

We can pretty much "interpret" anything to mean literally anything else. What is the point of having a doctrine if people are just going to twist it to mean whatever they want?

 

[Twilight Hue]

How do you know they had no knowledge of the earth as a globe?
They could easily look up at the moon and see its globe shape or even see a glimpse of a globe shaped sun.

Have you read the Bible?!?

Does the Bible Teach a Spherical Earth

 

[Dirty Penguin]

How do you know they had no knowledge of the earth as a globe?
They could easily look up at the moon and see its globe shape or even see a glimpse of a globe shaped sun.

You would think so but they didn't....and I answered these in a bunch of posts.....

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/science-vs-religion/80788-noahs-ark-38.html#post1686261

Originally Posted by Dirty Penguin "They had no real knowledge of astronomy. This is why they viewed their world as flat. From their point of view they could see in a complete circle around them. They thought their world extended from corner to corner not realizing their world was a (duwr - ball) instead of a (chuwg - circle/compass). Incidentally chuwg is what we find in a (mchuwgah - an instrument for making a circle i.e. compasses-compass)."

And, as I have pointed out, we have references like these;

Daniel 4:11
Upon my bed this is what I saw; there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth.

Isaiah 40:22
he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

If they are under the impression the whole earth was spherical then how would a tent cover it? No they saw their world in a 360 degree view. One can see how their god could spread his tent over the whole circle if you see in a 360 degree world view.

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

What "ends of the earth"? If they new the earth was spherical they'd know it has no end. How do you shake one off or out of the earth unless you assume it's flat?

Job 11:9
Its measure is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Deu 13:7
Any of the gods of the peoples that are around you, whether near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other

Josh 10:12-13
On the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the LORD; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand still at Gibeon, and Moon, in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in midheaven, and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.

The verse above is a clear sign the people in your bible didn't know what they were talking about. The thought was that the earth was the center of the universe and the sun and moon revolved around it. Obviously they were in error.

 

[averageJOE]

How do you know they had no knowledge of the earth as a globe?
They could easily look up at the moon and see its globe shape or even see a glimpse of a globe shaped sun.

Alright fine, you believe they knew the earth was a globe. Now what about answering these questions:

Here are some of your unresolved problems with a global flood:

1. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH WATER.
2. The ark could not float.
3. The animals could not have traveled to him from all over the world. (Think: sloths, polar bears, wombats, penguins.)
4. The animals could not possibly have fit.
a. Either there were millions of animals, who could not have fit.
b. Or there were fewer animals, and since then hyper-evolution has been creating new species every year.
5. It's impossible to bring provisions for all those animals for a year's travel. Bamboo for pandas? Eucalyptus for koalas? Fish for seals? Not even going into the huge problems with carnivores. What did they bring for the lions to eat?
6. Other care: exercise, waste disposal, etc.
7. Geological evidence. There's so much of it it would take years to cover, but the geological evidence of gradual evolution over millions of years, sedimentary layers that take millions of years to accumulate, flood channels now buried under ground, land traces, such as raindrops, then buried under sediment, occasional sedimentary flood layers, etc., etc. is overwhelming. That is why there's not a geologist on earth who accepts the flood. You simply cannot look at the actual evidence and reject it without being insane.
8. In particular, varves. Also ice cores, stalactites and coral reefs.
9. The fossil record is not consistent with a single disastrous flood, quite the contrary. Flying petradons appear lower in the record than moles. A flood cannot account for this.
10. More geology: layered fossil forests, one one top of another.
11. The plants could not have survived.
12. The fish and other aquatic species could not have survived.
13. Disease causing bacteria could not have survived.
14. The animals could not have gotten to their present geographic distribution. How did the pandas get to china, the sloth to South America, the wombat to Australia, and the Grizzly Bear to Alaska?
15. There is not record of such a flood in Egypt and Mesopotamia. These cultures kept records which are confirmed by other dating techniques.
16. There is not enough time for human population to have grown from under 100 to many billions.

Thanks to Mark Isaak. We look forward to your solutions to these problems.

Or are you going to be like this guy:

:ignore:

These are 16 points that have been brought up over and over again but no one will give an educated response to. The type of responses we get are; "windows of heaven", the ark was a chest, some plants and animals survived, god's magic. But mainly Shortys response is the norm.

 

[Autodidact]

First of all, Revelation has a lot of symbolism in it. Is the expression 'four winds of the earth' really that far off even in our expressions today? There are four direction (NEWS) often used to express direction. Sometimes we hear the expression 'to the ends of the earth' and we know that is not literal. We hear of the 'sun rise' and don't argue that that is not true even though we know the sun does not rise or set. Even the expression 'the sun traveled across the sky' we know what that means and know it is not literal.

Isaiah (11:12) wrote of gathering the dispersed ones from the four corners or extremities of the earth. The Hebrews would not have taken that literal either. Psalmist also wrote about the ends or extremities of the earth (22:27; 46:9). Also in Scripture the number four was often used to denote rounded out. Four square would have solid footing. So 'four' would be embracing all of the earth.
(Ezekiel 1:15-17; Luke 13:29).

So the four angels holding the four corners, holding the four winds (NEWS) is a vivid symbol of destructive judgment on 'wicked earthly society'. Look! a calamity is going forth from nation to nation.....from the remotest parts of the earth and those slain by God will certainly be from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth.
-Jeremiah (25:32,33). We know the earth does not have ends but we can understand the sense of embracing all the earth. At that time, God is making wars to cease to the end (extremity) of the earth- (Psalm 46:9). That results in peace on earth toward men of goodwill.

Who are you talking to and what are you talking about?

Hello-flood. Didn't happen?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

What "ends of the earth"? If they new the earth was spherical they'd know it has no end.

How does one manage to spew such persistently petty and inane polemic? Given ...

Welcome to "Paths Less Taken - NOAA at the Ends of the Earth"​

Shall we now ridicule the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration? After all: "If they new the earth was spherical they'd know it has no end." Good grief! :slap:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

How does one manage to spew such persistently petty and inane polemic? Given ...

Nothing "petty" at all. That's what they believed back then.

Shall we now ridicule the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration? After all: "If they new the earth was spherical they'd know it has no end." Good grief! :slap:

......

 

[sandy whitelinger]

"I will continue to post them until flood proponents stop ignoring them."

The definition of insanity is.......

 

[OmarKhayyam]

The definition of willful ignorance is the stubborn refusal to consider evidence that one finds disquieting.