Noahs Ark

[Dirty Penguin]

There are just so many little problems like this in some of the stories in Genesis. Another one is where Joseph is sold for 20 shekles of silver [37:28] but Egypt and Palestine did't use coins for at least 1,000 years, after this story supposedly happen. And you are trying to telling us that God was behind all the writing in the bible including all these contraditions?????

Alot of biblical stories are like this. This very story sounds like the Judas and Jesus myth purported in the NT.

 

[rusra02]

There are just so many little problems like this in some of the stories in Genesis. Another one is where Joseph is sold for 20 shekles of silver [37:28] but Egypt and Palestine did't use coins for at least 1,000 years, after this story supposedly happen. And you are trying to telling us that God was behind all the writing in the bible including all these contraditions?????

Before coins were used, pieces of silver (and, less frequently, gold) were used for money, the weight being checked at the time the transaction was made. (Ge 23:15, 16; Jos 7:21) So-called "contradictions" are simply lack of knowledge.

 

[rusra02]

Arlanbb- if I may take the liberty to add that secular attempts to ID the Hittites of the Bible with secular history is primarily linguistic or based on words..
The Assyrian cuneiform texts, frequently reference 'Hatti' connected to places in Syria or Palestine. Scholars try to ID the Bible Hittites with the so-called Hittite Empire that had its capital in Asia Minor, far to the N and W of the land of Canaan. In doing this they refer to three (3) different groups of people.

In Anatolia (Turkey) in Asia Minor ancient texts formerly called 'Hattushash' were unearthed. It was the capital of a land called Hatti whose people spoke Hattic. These peoples were overrun by people of a different language possible Indo- European. The language used 'cuneiform Hittite'. Later peoples used ' hieroglyphic Hittite'. So three languages could be three different groups and where is the proof that any of these are even the Hittites of the Bible?

Abimelech is either a personal name or an official title like Pharaoh or Caesar.
There are four Abimelech's mentioned: King of Gerar Gen 20:1-18.
Another Abimelech possibly another Gerar King at the time of Isaac- Gen 26:1-31. The Philistine King of Gath in David's day- Psalm 34. And Abimelech the son of Gideon mentioned in Judges.

Although the Philistines are not named in inscriptions or archaeological remains until the 12th century BC(BCE), however, there is evidence of a major expansion of Aegean trade going back to the 20th century BC(BCE), so if a particular group was not prominent enough to be mentioned would not prove it did not exist. There would be no reason that small groups of Philistines could not have been among early Aegean traders.

Well said. Time and again, critics of the Bible's accuracy have had to retreat as new discoveries vindicate the Bible's accuracy and prove the critics wrong.

In his book The Bible Comes Alive, Sir Charles Marston said: “Those who have shaken popular faith in the Bible, and undermined its authority, are in turn undermined themselves by the evidence that has been brought to light, and their authority destroyed. The spade is driving destructive criticism out of the field of questionable facts into that of recognized fiction.”
Archaeology has supported the Bible in many ways. For example, discoveries have confirmed the places and names found in Genesis chapter 10. Excavators have uncovered the Chaldean city of Ur, the commercial and religious center where Abraham was born. (Genesis 11:27-31) Above the spring of Gihon in the southeastern part of Jerusalem, archaeologists found the Jebusite city taken by King David. (2 Samuel 5:4-10) The Siloam Inscription carved at one end of King Hezekiah’s conduit, or aqueduct, was discovered in 1880. (2 Kings 20:20) Babylon’s fall to Cyrus the Great in 539 B.C.E. is related in the Nabonidus Chronicle, unearthed in the 19th century C.E. Details in the book of Esther have been confirmed by inscriptions from Persepolis and the discovery of the palace of King Xerxes (Ahasuerus) at Shushan, or Susa, between 1880 and 1890 C.E. An inscription found in 1961 in the ruins of a Roman theater at Caesarea proved the existence of Roman governor Pontius Pilate. The list goes on and on....​

 

[tumbleweed41]

Well said. Time and again, critics of the Bible's accuracy have had to retreat as new discoveries vindicate the Bible's accuracy and prove the critics wrong.

Yet absolutely no evidence of a global flood.

 

[rusra02]

Yet absolutely no evidence of a global flood.

Geology professor John McCampbell once wrote: “The essential differences between Biblical catastrophism [the Flood] and evolutionary uniformitarianism are not over the factual data of geology but over the interpretations of those data. The interpretation preferred will depend largely upon the background and presuppositions of the individual student."
That the Flood did happen is seen in the fact that mankind never forgot it. All around the world, in locations as far apart as Alaska and the South Sea Islands, there are ancient stories about it. Native, pre-Columbian civilizations of America, as well as Aborigines of Australia, all have stories about the Flood. While some of the accounts differ in detail, the basic fact that the earth was flooded and only a few humans were saved in a man-made vessel comes through in nearly all versions. The only explanation for such a widespread acceptance is that the Flood was a historical event.
Of course, the implications of belief in a global flood scare many people. It is more comfortable to disbelieve.​

 

[camanintx]

That the Flood did happen is seen in the fact that mankind never forgot it. All around the world, in locations as far apart as Alaska and the South Sea Islands, there are ancient stories about it. Native, pre-Columbian civilizations of America, as well as Aborigines of Australia, all have stories about the Flood. While some of the accounts differ in detail, the basic fact that the earth was flooded and only a few humans were saved in a man-made vessel comes through in nearly all versions. The only explanation for such a widespread acceptance is that the Flood was a historical event.

Of course, the implications of belief in a global flood scare many people. It is more comfortable to disbelieve.​

How does the fact that flooding occurs globally equate to evidence that a single flood event covered the entire world?

 

[rusra02]

How does the fact that flooding occurs globally equate to evidence that a single flood event covered the entire world?

You miss the point. Virtually every race and people have legends of a global flood.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Geology professor John McCampbell once wrote: “The essential differences between Biblical catastrophism [the Flood] and evolutionary uniformitarianism are not over the factual data of geology but over the interpretations of those data. The interpretation preferred will depend largely upon the background and presuppositions of the individual student."​

It is not surprising that Professor McCampbell would take this stance. He has written many papers suporting Creationism, Young Earth, and Global flood. By his own excuse, he is allowing presuppositions to form his findings, rather than actually looking at all the evidence.

That the Flood did happen is seen in the fact that mankind never forgot it. All around the world, in locations as far apart as Alaska and the South Sea Islands, there are ancient stories about it. Native, pre-Columbian civilizations of America, as well as Aborigines of Australia, all have stories about the Flood. While some of the accounts differ in detail, the basic fact that the earth was flooded and only a few humans were saved in a man-made vessel comes through in nearly all versions. The only explanation for such a widespread acceptance is that the Flood was a historical event.
Of course, the implications of belief in a global flood scare many people. It is more comfortable to disbelieve.

Interesting that you should bring these up. By your own admission, you have shown a conflict in the Biblical version of the supposed flood. Many, if not most, of these civilizations existed before, during, and after the estimated time of the "flood". Was there a surviving familly in each of these civilizations?
I also notice that you did not mention the many advanced civilizations that have no historical records that they existed, were covered by water, and emerged without ever realizing there was a flood.
Again, there is absolutely no geographical, oceanographical, anthropological, archaeological, nor biological record of a worldwide flood.

However, flooding is common in early civilizations. Most societies had to live near water to survive. All it takes is one bad flood to stick in a superstitious tribes memory as a punishment or cleansing from a god, gods, or spirits.

Just as there are many legends in Pacific Islander lore of a great Tsunami or Tidal wave from the gods, does not mean the gods actually sent a kamikaze, or 'divine tempest' that destroyed the invading Mongol fleet in 1281 on their way to Japan.

Contrary to your statement, it is far easier to attribute the unknown to the supernatural, than to actually find the truth.

 

[tumbleweed41]

You miss the point. Virtually every race and people have legends of a global flood.

Of course, to them, what they saw was "global". If you spend your entire life in a valley by the Red Sea, a flood would cover your "whole world".

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Yes Sandy ~ I can understand why you get "tired of these topics" when you come up with this kind of rediculess statement, "the biblical Hittites are obviously not the Northern Hittites". This cave was bought in Hebron and archaeologist have excavated Hebron and there is no indication of any Hittites, biblical or reguler Hittites ever living there. If God is controling the biblical writers to write the truth why does the writer in the NT Acts 7:16 tell us a different story about where Jacob and Abraham were buried, [Gen 50:13] they were laid in the tomb bought from the Sons of Hamor in Shechem, which is about 60 miles from Hebron. Now was it Hebron or Shechem where The tomb is located????

I noticed that you had no comment at all about Abraham who had to be at least 600 years old to meet with Abimelech, the 13 century Philistine.

There are just so many little problems like this in some of the stories in Genesis. Another one is where Joseph is sold for 20 shekles of silver [37:28] but Egypt and Palestine did't use coins for at least 1,000 years, after this story supposedly happen. And you are trying to telling us that God was behind all the writing in the bible including all these contraditions?????

I think I said that if you want to discuss it further open a new thread. And I tire of it because one side and/or the other of the argument can be counted on to ignore plausible evidence.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You miss the point. Virtually every race and people have legends of a global flood.

Really? What a very interesting claim, particularly given the fact that these (fully understandable) legends presumably arose at a time and within a people who had no knowledge of the Earth as a globe.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Yet absolutely no evidence of a global flood.

Nice segue back to the topic.

 

[richardlowellt]

Geology professor John McCampbell once wrote: “The essential differences between Biblical catastrophism [the Flood] and evolutionary uniformitarianism are not over the factual data of geology but over the interpretations of those data​

. And just how much interpretation is there in the absents of data. There is no world wide single layer of sediment that MUST be present if a global flood happened. How much interpretation goes into the origin and now the whereabouts of 3.5 billion cubic miles of extra water.

That the Flood did happen is seen in the fact that mankind never forgot it.

Mankind has also not forgotten about demons, trolls, fairies, Jonah being swallowed by a large fish, this does not make any of these real nor is it any kind of evidence.

All around the world, in locations as far apart as Alaska and the South Sea Islands, there are ancient stories about it. Native, pre-Columbian civilizations of America, as well as Aborigines of Australia, all have stories about the Flood.

As has been pointed out to you, why did not all of these civilization perish in this great flood? All regions have localize floods, hence the stories, also pointed out to you non of these people knew what constituted the earth. There are also ancient stories about Aliens (Chariots of the Gods)

While some of the accounts differ in detail, the basic fact that the earth was flooded and only a few humans were saved in a man-made vessel comes through in nearly all versions.

Now all you have to do is present these accounts about a man-made vessel included in nearly all the versions, a respected source, articles, research papers, that kind of thing.

The only explanation for such a widespread acceptance is that the Flood was a historical event.

Also pointed out to you are the major civilizations at the time who simply didn't realize they were under water for most of the year.

Of course, the implications of belief in a global flood scare many people. It is more comfortable to disbelieve.[/LEF[/QUOTE What's so scary about a children's story that given the lack of evidence combined with reason and logic, never happened?

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[Autodidact]

If all of you have read the Scripture then how do you explain some thinking the ark was shaped like a boat? Or did not know there was an expanse? etc.

I don't know, maybe because the Bible doesn't say that? What it says, in Genesis 6, is:

So make yourself an ark of cypress c]" class="footnote">[c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. d]" class="footnote">[d] 16 Make a roof for it and finish e]" class="footnote">[e] the ark to within 18 inches f]" class="footnote">[f] of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks.

It says nothing about the shape.

But, as has been pointed out to you several times, if the ark is shaped like a chest, you have an even bigger problem. Think about it. Boats are built to be boat-shaped for a reason. If chests worked better, we would build boats like chests. Chests are EVEN WORSE. The ark, as described, could not survive a trip across the English Channel, let alone being tossed on seas strong enough to carve the Grand Canyon.

I realize that thinking is not your strong suit, but just for a change of pace, give it a try. Flood proponents propose that the flood carved canyons and raised mountains out of sheer rock--but didn't harm a wooden boat too long to be sea-worthy?!?

The only way you can solve these problems is by magic. If so, say so, and stop pretending to use science you don't. In fact, you despise science, as demonstrated by your next words.

Has science always been right in the past?

Not at all. Science always starts out completely wrong. Then it gets less and less wrong, until gradually it gets more and more right, until it is as right as humans can be about anything, more right than your supposition that I am a human being.

So what you're saying is that you don't think science works? You think holy books do a better job of teaching us about the natural world?

The world scene should help you discern that something is going to happen.
Can't you discern that the political world sees what trouble the religious world is causing?
How much longer do you think it will be before the world's political 'kings' will act?
Perhaps even a bad economy could make them desire the wealth the world's religions possess and want to go after it.

Have you ever reviewed the track record of people who make predictions based on their interpretation of the Bible? It's about zero for 10,000. While science makes correct predictions every day.

 

[Autodidact]

Well said. Time and again, critics of the Bible's accuracy have had to retreat as new discoveries vindicate the Bible's accuracy and prove the critics wrong.

In his book The Bible Comes Alive, Sir Charles Marston said: “Those who have shaken popular faith in the Bible, and undermined its authority, are in turn undermined themselves by the evidence that has been brought to light, and their authority destroyed. The spade is driving destructive criticism out of the field of questionable facts into that of recognized fiction.”
Archaeology has supported the Bible in many ways. For example, discoveries have confirmed the places and names found in Genesis chapter 10. Excavators have uncovered the Chaldean city of Ur, the commercial and religious center where Abraham was born. (Genesis 11:27-31) Above the spring of Gihon in the southeastern part of Jerusalem, archaeologists found the Jebusite city taken by King David. (2 Samuel 5:4-10) The Siloam Inscription carved at one end of King Hezekiah’s conduit, or aqueduct, was discovered in 1880. (2 Kings 20:20) Babylon’s fall to Cyrus the Great in 539 B.C.E. is related in the Nabonidus Chronicle, unearthed in the 19th century C.E. Details in the book of Esther have been confirmed by inscriptions from Persepolis and the discovery of the palace of King Xerxes (Ahasuerus) at Shushan, or Susa, between 1880 and 1890 C.E. An inscription found in 1961 in the ruins of a Roman theater at Caesarea proved the existence of Roman governor Pontius Pilate. The list goes on and on....​

Sir Marston was mistaken. The only thing that has been confirmed by archeology is geography. Most of the events described have been undermined as more and more research uncovers the facts.

 

[rusra02]

Really? What a very interesting claim, particularly given the fact that these (fully understandable) legends presumably arose at a time and within a people who had no knowledge of the Earth as a globe.

Ok. earth-wide. And all these people were descendents of the flood survivors. Thus rather than legends of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc. people around the earth have this flood legend. Interesting.

 

[Autodidact]

Geology professor John McCampbell once wrote: “The essential differences between Biblical catastrophism [the Flood] and evolutionary uniformitarianism are not over the factual data of geology but over the interpretations of those data. The interpretation preferred will depend largely upon the background and presuppositions of the individual student."
That the Flood did happen is seen in the fact that mankind never forgot it. All around the world, in locations as far apart as Alaska and the South Sea Islands, there are ancient stories about it. Native, pre-Columbian civilizations of America, as well as Aborigines of Australia, all have stories about the Flood. While some of the accounts differ in detail, the basic fact that the earth was flooded and only a few humans were saved in a man-made vessel comes through in nearly all versions. The only explanation for such a widespread acceptance is that the Flood was a historical event.
Of course, the implications of belief in a global flood scare many people. It is more comfortable to disbelieve.​

What crap. Obviously there is at least one other explanation, which turns out to be the correct one. Everywhere in the world has had a flood at some time. Just not all at once.

This has been posted in this thread, unrefuted, at least ten times. Repeating the same point which has already been responded to does not make it any more true.

Show us why this more likely explanation is not correct. Stop repeating the original, refuted, assertion over and over.

 

[Autodidact]

You miss the point. Virtually every race and people have legends of a global flood.

1. No, they don't.
2. For stone age people, 500 square miles is the world.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Ok. earth-wide. And all these people were descendents of the flood survivors. Thus rather than legends of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc. people around the earth have this flood legend. Interesting.

No, not interesting. Supposition based on wishful thinking rather than actual anthropological data.

 

[Autodidact]

Ok. earth-wide. And all these people were descendents of the flood survivors. Thus rather than legends of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc. people around the earth have this flood legend. Interesting.

They also have legends of earthquakes, volcanoes, and every other kind of natural disaster. Interesting.

How did the sloths get to South America?

How did the wallabies get to Australia?