Noahs Ark

[Dirty Penguin]

Correct. I've already run into this problem with Dirty. For example, he stated that the people of the time of the writing of Genesis had a limited understanding of cosmology and he bases the meaning of scripture on that premise.

I base it on their actual understanding or lack thereof of cosmology, meteorology as well as geology. The people of the scripture were deficient in all areas. Their deficiency stayed that way for centuries after...until others, later, theorized the earthed was not flat, the earth revolves around the sun, water didn't come from a trap door from some unknown place, water is not held above the clouds, above a glass ceiling covering earth....etc...etc....

I on the otherhand think that God inspired the details of Genesis and therefore the people's understanding is irrelevant to the true meaning.

Says you. Tell us what you mean by "true meaning" because on one hand you interpret your bible in a literal fashion and now it seems we need to be looking for the "true meaning"....so I want to be clears as to what that is. Your god is specific when giving Noah the dimensions of the wooden ship to build and the amount of animals etc he should be filling the boat with but we know there is no way for a ship of that size to survive in open waters. This seems to mean the writers viewed the narrative as an actual event and not metaphor.

We know that with todays technology building a ship of that magnitude out of steel and fastened together with rivets as well as being welded would not survive the violent conditions of the sea especially coupled with violent storm conditions and floating debris. The size of Noah's "wooden" boat would have a lot of stress put on the ship and it would crack in half. The size of the ship, the weight of the ship with or without the animals would have caused the ship to not last a log time on the open seas. The conditions of the sea (salt water) and the massive amount of debris due to the flooding of the world would have deteriorated the wooden vessel. Last, but certainly not least, there is NO evidence of a WWF......

Really what we should be asking you, since you say you entered to clear up some "misperceptions" is...Do you view the story of Noah as a literal story or do you view the story metaphorically? If you now want us to look at the "true meaning" of the story then are you now suggesting the story was a metaphor?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I base it on their actual understanding or lack thereof of cosmology, meteorology as well as geology. The people of the scripture were deficient in all areas. Their deficiency stayed that way for centuries after...until others, later, theorized the earthed was not flat, the earth revolves around the sun, water didn't come from a trap door from some unknown place, water is not held above the clouds, above a glass ceiling covering earth....etc...etc....



Says you. Tell us what you mean by "true meaning" because on one hand you interpret your bible in a literal fashion and now it seems we need to be looking for the "true meaning"....so I want to be clears as to what that is. Your god is specific when giving Noah the dimensions of the wooden ship to build and the amount of animals etc he should be filling the boat with but we know there is no way for a ship of that size to survive in open waters. This seems to mean the writers viewed the narrative as an actual event and not metaphor.

We know that with todays technology building a ship of that magnitude out of steel and fastened together with rivets as well as being welded would not survive the violent conditions of the sea especially coupled with violent storm conditions and floating debris. The size of Noah's "wooden" boat would have a lot of stress put on the ship and it would crack in half. The size of the ship, the weight of the ship with or without the animals would have caused the ship to not last a log time on the open seas. The conditions of the sea (salt water) and the massive amount of debris due to the flooding of the world would have deteriorated the wooden vessel. Last, but certainly not least, there is NO evidence of a WWF......

Really what we should be asking you, since you say you entered to clear up some "misperceptions" is...Do you view the story of Noah as a literal story or do you view the story metaphorically? If you now want us to look at the "true meaning" of the story then are you now suggesting the story was a metaphor?

Two short answers.

One, I gave you the true Biblical meaning. The water for the flood came from heaven and returned to heaven.

Second, In the natural world the flood has metaphorical meaning.

 

[darkendless]

Two short answers.

One, I gave you the true Biblical meaning. The water for the flood came from heaven and returned to heaven.

Second, In the natural world the flood has metaphorical meaning.

Fabricating absolute BS doesn't do your intelligence any favours.

 

[averageJOE]

Isnt there a verse somewhere that says something along the lines of Thank you God that you have hidden this from those with great minds, but revealed it to us. ?

Are you asking if there is a biblical verse saying that god will show you evidence of a world wide flood but not me?

 

[Arlanbb]

sandy whitelinger;1708304]Correct. .......I on the otherhand think that God inspired the details of Genesis and therefore the people's understanding is irrelevant to the true meaning.
Hi Sandy ~ You say that you THINK God inspired the details of Genesis. Maybe you can help me understand some of the statements in Genesis that God made about Abraham.
In the story of Abraham, Gen. 25:10, Abraham buys a burial ground from a town full of Hittites. Most biblical historians say that Abraham lived around 2000 to 1900 BC maybe as late as 1850BC. According to all real historical accounts the Hittite Empire developed in what we call Turkey in around 1540 BC.

Please explain to me how God was able to make Abraham live 300 more years so he could buy a cave from a Hittite?

Second question ~ there are two stories in Gen. 20 and 21 about Abraham meeting Abimelech, the Philistines. According to all historican the Philistines didn't invade Palestine until the 13 century.

Please explain to me why God again gives us a story that makes Abraham over 700 years old to meet Abimelech?

Does God think we are stuped by giving us some stories that makes Abraham up to 700 years old??? Maybe God thinks we can not add numbers and figure out that God is stringing us along.

I'm sure we would all be interested in your answer about how God gave Abraham a very long age. Looking for your repley:yes:

Hi Sandy ~ I'm still waiting for your reply to my questions about Abraham and how God made him live more than 500 years???:run::yes:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Two short answers.

One, I gave you the true Biblical meaning. The water for the flood came from heaven and returned to heaven.

Second, In the natural world the flood has metaphorical meaning.

Thank you...but in the natural world we call that circular reasoning. For the record, if you go back and look at your original postings 18 and 19 you did not clear up any "misperceptions".

Post 18 was a joke right and we missed the punchline right? And in post 19, when asked about the flood and geology, you simply stated "it's a mystery".... You would have done us a great service by simply being an observer in this thread because with that statement and your answers in post 18 it was clear you cleared up nothing......

 

[Arlanbb]

Well it looks like URAVIP2ME is back with us again. We have missed you. Back in post # 705 I asked you a bunch of questions and for some reason you did not answer them. How about giving me the answers to those questions now or if you can't answer them at least admit that you have no answers. looking for your reply soon. Thanks for your time.:run:

 

[Autodidact]

URAVIP's utter inability to refute any of the scientific points raised confirms further our certainty that this flood never happened. Good work, URA.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Post 18 was a joke right and we missed the punchline right? And in post 19, when asked about the flood and geology, you simply stated "it's a mystery".... You would have done us a great service by simply being an observer in this thread because with that statement and your answers in post 18 it was clear you cleared up nothing......

I'll make a note to try not and humor you in the futute. I'll assume you are humorless.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Hi Sandy ~ I'm still waiting for your reply to my questions about Abraham and how God made him live more than 500 years???:run::yes:

Well, since the question is way off topic I just ignored it. If you want a more detailed explanation than, "the Biblical Hittites are obviously not the Northern Hittites," then maybe start a thread for that. I might participate but I tire of these topics.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

sandy whitelinger;1708304]Correct. .......I on the otherhand think that God inspired the details of Genesis and therefore the people's understanding is irrelevant to the true meaning.
Hi Sandy ~ You say that you THINK God inspired the details of Genesis. Maybe you can help me understand some of the statements in Genesis that God made about Abraham.
In the story of Abraham, Gen. 25:10, Abraham buys a burial ground from a town full of Hittites. Most biblical historians say that Abraham lived around 2000 to 1900 BC maybe as late as 1850BC. According to all real historical accounts the Hittite Empire developed in what we call Turkey in around 1540 BC.

Please explain to me how God was able to make Abraham live 300 more years so he could buy a cave from a Hittite?

Second question ~ there are two stories in Gen. 20 and 21 about Abraham meeting Abimelech, the Philistines. According to all historican the Philistines didn't invade Palestine until the 13 century.

Please explain to me why God again gives us a story that makes Abraham over 700 years old to meet Abimelech?

Does God think we are stuped by giving us some stories that makes Abraham up to 700 years old??? Maybe God thinks we can not add numbers and figure out that God is stringing us along.

I'm sure we would all be interested in your answer about how God gave Abraham a very long age. Looking for your repley:yes:

Arlanbb- if I may take the liberty to add that secular attempts to ID the Hittites of the Bible with secular history is primarily linguistic or based on words..
The Assyrian cuneiform texts, frequently reference 'Hatti' connected to places in Syria or Palestine. Scholars try to ID the Bible Hittites with the so-called Hittite Empire that had its capital in Asia Minor, far to the N and W of the land of Canaan. In doing this they refer to three (3) different groups of people.

In Anatolia (Turkey) in Asia Minor ancient texts formerly called 'Hattushash' were unearthed. It was the capital of a land called Hatti whose people spoke Hattic. These peoples were overrun by people of a different language possible Indo- European. The language used 'cuneiform Hittite'. Later peoples used ' hieroglyphic Hittite'. So three languages could be three different groups and where is the proof that any of these are even the Hittites of the Bible?

Abimelech is either a personal name or an official title like Pharaoh or Caesar.
There are four Abimelech's mentioned: King of Gerar Gen 20:1-18.
Another Abimelech possibly another Gerar King at the time of Isaac- Gen 26:1-31. The Philistine King of Gath in David's day- Psalm 34. And Abimelech the son of Gideon mentioned in Judges.

Although the Philistines are not named in inscriptions or archaeological remains until the 12th century BC(BCE), however, there is evidence of a major expansion of Aegean trade going back to the 20th century BC(BCE), so if a particular group was not prominent enough to be mentioned would not prove it did not exist. There would be no reason that small groups of Philistines could not have been among early Aegean traders.

 

[Autodidact]

Do you think he has me on ignore?

*raises voice* HELLO!! FLOOD? The purported global flood?

 

[Autodidact]

An interesting technique that URA uses is to ignore the questions asked of him, and answer other questions completely. It's like he's in his own little world.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Arlanbb- Autodidact-

I posted the information from Scripture. Where the Bible is silent no more can be said.
Some say the ark was a ship. No it was not a ship. It did not have to go anywhere nor needed steering. There could have been divine intervention keeping the ark safe. I made reference about the expanse, etc. If one is going to look for fault they should at least have the correct information from scripture to start with.

Again, there will be divine intervention, this time a great crowd of peoples from all nations, tribes, etc. will be safe through the coming great tribulation as mentioned at Revelation (7:14, 9,10).

 

[tumbleweed41]

Arlanbb- Autodidact-

I posted the information from Scripture. Where the Bible is silent no more can be said.
Some say the ark was a ship. No it was not a ship. It did not have to go anywhere nor needed steering. There could have been divine intervention keeping the ark safe. I made reference about the expanse, etc. If one is going to look for fault they should at least have the correct information from scripture to start with.

Again, there will be divine intervention, this time a great crowd of peoples from all nations, tribes, etc. will be safe through the coming great tribulation as mentioned at Revelation (7:14, 9,10).

In other words....

Goddidit!

 

[Autodidact]

Arlanbb- Autodidact-

I posted the information from Scripture. Where the Bible is silent no more can be said.
Some say the ark was a ship. No it was not a ship. It did not have to go anywhere nor needed steering. There could have been divine intervention keeping the ark safe. I made reference about the expanse, etc. If one is going to look for fault they should at least have the correct information from scripture to start with.

Again, there will be divine intervention, this time a great crowd of peoples from all nations, tribes, etc. will be safe through the coming great tribulation as mentioned at Revelation (7:14, 9,10).

We've all read the scripture, URA. We don't need you to tell us what the Bible says. The point is, it's wrong.

Since you have utterly sucked at persuading us about the past, what do you think your chances are of persuading us that you know the future?

There is only one discipline that has any success at predicting the future, and it's science, not the Bible.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If all of you have read the Scripture then how do you explain some thinking the ark was shaped like a boat? Or did not know there was an expanse? etc.

Has science always been right in the past?

The world scene should help you discern that something is going to happen.
Can't you discern that the political world sees what trouble the religious world is causing?
How much longer do you think it will be before the world's political 'kings' will act?
Perhaps even a bad economy could make them desire the wealth the world's religions possess and want to go after it.

 

[Arlanbb]

Well, since the question is way off topic I just ignored it. If you want a more detailed explanation than, "the Biblical Hittites are obviously not the Northern Hittites," then maybe start a thread for that. I might participate but I tire of these topics.

Yes Sandy ~ I can understand why you get "tired of these topics" when you come up with this kind of rediculess statement, "the biblical Hittites are obviously not the Northern Hittites". This cave was bought in Hebron and archaeologist have excavated Hebron and there is no indication of any Hittites, biblical or reguler Hittites ever living there. If God is controling the biblical writers to write the truth why does the writer in the NT Acts 7:16 tell us a different story about where Jacob and Abraham were buried, [Gen 50:13] they were laid in the tomb bought from the Sons of Hamor in Shechem, which is about 60 miles from Hebron. Now was it Hebron or Shechem where The tomb is located????

I noticed that you had no comment at all about Abraham who had to be at least 600 years old to meet with Abimelech, the 13 century Philistine.

There are just so many little problems like this in some of the stories in Genesis. Another one is where Joseph is sold for 20 shekles of silver [37:28] but Egypt and Palestine did't use coins for at least 1,000 years, after this story supposedly happen. And you are trying to telling us that God was behind all the writing in the bible including all these contraditions?????

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Arlanbb- Autodidact-

I posted the information from Scripture. Where the Bible is silent no more can be said.
Some say the ark was a ship. No it was not a ship. It did not have to go anywhere nor needed steering. There could have been divine intervention keeping the ark safe. I made reference about the expanse, etc. If one is going to look for fault they should at least have the correct information from scripture to start with.

Again, there will be divine intervention, this time a great crowd of peoples from all nations, tribes, etc. will be safe through the coming great tribulation as mentioned at Revelation (7:14, 9,10).

And I have argued...time and time again...that trying to prove the bible by using the bible is a futile attempt.

This is why we look to the natural world. Contrary to what some believe. Most of the things in your bible, not all....but most, "can not be reconciled' by the natural world.

I know, you want to say....(That's because god moves in mysterious.......)....blah...blah....blah......

In the case of the flood....Let me correct myself....."BIBLE VERSION OF THE FLOOD".....


The story has no place in the natural world as a literal story because NOTHING about the story can be corroborated.

Forget the boat, the firmament, the animals and their kind (Whatever that means), and forget the "Windows Of Heaven"........

Let's concern ourselves with the biblical fact that it says the flood was global. But we know this to not be true because there is not proof that a WWF took place.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If all of you have read the Scripture then how do you explain some thinking the ark was shaped like a boat? Or did not know there was an expanse? etc.

Has science always been right in the past?

The world scene should help you discern that something is going to happen.
Can't you discern that the political world sees what trouble the religious world is causing?
How much longer do you think it will be before the world's political 'kings' will act?
Perhaps even a bad economy could make them desire the wealth the world's religions possess and want to go after it.

Hey....I have heard from plenty in the UFO circles that say the Ark was a spaceship and the seeds of life we taken aboard and the population was reconstructed through DNA manipulation by space beings. But since I don't believe that either I remain unconvinced.....:sleep: