Non-Christians obsessed with Christianity

[Twilight Hue]

The Christian overculture of the western world affects everyone. I’m not Christian anymore but when Christians lobby for legislation based on their religious beliefs, that affects me even as a Hindu. Even now there are Christian groups trying to circumvent the US Supreme Court’s ruling legalizing same sex marriage. So yeah, what Christians do is of concern to me.

I still remember the opening Hindu invocation on the Senate floor with a guest chaplain. It serves as an example quite well I think how Christians interfere with anything and anything that doesn't support their belief structure and doctrine.

Christians simply cannot do things like this, and expect no response or challenge to the beliefs on behalf of non Christians and followers of different religions to simply accept it and not address in kind what they find wrong with aspects of doctrine and the general veracity of Christianity overall.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Interesting. How does one apply QM to theology?

It's possible that Electron Entanglement may provide the space to exist in more than one dimension at once. So, thus comes the explanation for how some Biblical characters were able to move with no explanation provided; and he walked with God and was not, and so forth. There is so much fantasy inserted into religion that is likely not true, yet they lie about the things which are.

 

[Marcion]

Seems a lot of people who are not Christians are obsessed with Christianity. As if they still struggle with whether or not it is true.

I think you mainly mean obsessed with evangelical Christianity?
Main stream Christianity is not very much concerned with truth.
You go to church, hand over some money, a priest does some rituals on behalf of you in a shiny religious setting, you receive some blessings and you try to behave as a good Christian.

Evangelical Christians on the other hand will condemn people who don't believe in their Christian dogma's and that can make non-believers obsessed with proving them wrong.

Also the culture used to be Christian in Western Europe, so if you fell away from that culture you wanted to well motivate the reasons why you did so. Now that is no longer the case, people don't care to do so any longer.
Now it is more the evangelical Christians who are becoming obsessed with their own place in the spectrum of believers, half-believers and non-believers. The American style blunt dogmatic evangelical Christianity has lost its attraction for most born-again Christians in this part of the world, few people still subscribe to it.

But apart from that, it is only natural for people to want to understand where they have come from culturally and form themselves a new idea of the proper place of Chistian ideology, how did it come about, what are its defects and where in history did it go wrong?
It took me a long time to understand a bit more about the fundamental difference between the teachings of Yeshua and the teachings of syncretic Christianity.

Just because I disagree with some aspects of Christianity does not mean that it does not have strands in its ideology that are universal and valuable for anyone who wants to progress spiritually.
If I had lived in a Muslim cultural setting I would have probably been more "obsessed" with understanding the proper place of Islam instead.

 

[lukethethird]

Interesting. How does one apply QM to theology?

Somebody has been reading too much Deepak Chopra.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Seems a lot of people who are not Christians are obsessed with Christianity. As if they still struggle with whether or not it is true.

The claims of Christianity are not true, and the Bible is fiction. It contradicts science, archaeology, common sense, and document analysis.

It is worthwhile to learn about this topic. But once realizing the truth of the matter, it seems to me, the proper response is to wholeheartedly believe, to let go of the lie. Perhaps some will want to share their understandings about the topic with others.

But it seems to me, many claim to doubt the truth claims of Christianity, but yet hang on to its ideas as if they are true even though the source of the ideas is false. For example, they worry about sin. But sin is only meaningful in the context of the Christian view of God and his creation of humans and his judgement of those who reject him. If those claims are not true, the concept of sin vanishes.

I define such people as agnostics. They look at the evidence and at times it appears to be completely lacking, but at others times they look at the evidence and think it might have some validity.

 

[viole]

It's possible that Electron Entanglement may provide the space to exist in more than one dimension at once. So, thus comes the explanation for how some Biblical characters were able to move with no explanation provided; and he walked with God and was not, and so forth. There is so much fantasy inserted into religion that is likely not true, yet they lie about the things which are.

Before we analyze your claim any further: do you really know what entanglement is?

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Seems a lot of people who are not Christians are obsessed with Christianity. As if they still struggle with whether or not it is true.

The claims of Christianity are not true, and the Bible is fiction. It contradicts science, archaeology, common sense, and document analysis.

It is worthwhile to learn about this topic. But once realizing the truth of the matter, it seems to me, the proper response is to wholeheartedly believe, to let go of the lie. Perhaps some will want to share their understandings about the topic with others.

But it seems to me, many claim to doubt the truth claims of Christianity, but yet hang on to its ideas as if they are true even though the source of the ideas is false. For example, they worry about sin. But sin is only meaningful in the context of the Christian view of God and his creation of humans and his judgement of those who reject him. If those claims are not true, the concept of sin vanishes.

Christianity, like other extant beliefs in other gods, make definite claims that concern the whole Universe. And they do not stop there, they also claim what happens with us (our immortal soul) if we do not do this and that.

That, of course, is per se benign: it is equivalent to making claims like the blue fairy having created the whole Universe and it is supported by the same evidence.

The problem starts when that funny belief starts influencing public policy. Like Euthanasia, Gay marriages, abortion, stem cell research ad all things that priests, i.e. those people dressed funny with a degree in B.S. (Biblical Scholarship), think they have a word to say about because of their know how in B.S. Which is, again, based on the same evidence that the blue fairy has.

So, I think it is entirely legitimate to try to destroy that, since it influences all of us. Well, more you than me since I am a Swede. lol.

Ciao

- viole

 

[blü 2]

Seems a lot of people who are not Christians are obsessed with Christianity. As if they still struggle with whether or not it is true.

True in what sense? That there was an historical Jesus? That's problematic ─ a 50-50 bet, I concluded when I'd had a good look at it, since there's no clincher either way. Miracles? I don't think magic is real, but back in those days they did. Resurrection? The biblical evidence for it is a forensic disaster area.

It is worthwhile to learn about this topic. But once realizing the truth of the matter, it seems to me, the proper response is to wholeheartedly believe, to let go of the lie.

What is 'the lie' here?

It brings up the question, what test do you use to tell whether a statement is true or not? My experience on RF has been that believers don't wish to discuss that, but perhaps chance dealt me an unfortunate sample.

sin is only meaningful in the context of the Christian view of God and his creation of humans and his judgement of those who reject him. If those claims are not true, the concept of sin vanishes.

You can argue that two ways. One way is that the Christian emphasis on sin is unmatched by other religions, which is emphatically true of some Christian sects and less emphatically true of others. Or you can argue that 'sin' means an act displeasing to God / Heaven / the divinities, and this idea is found in many religions.

Incidentally, the idea that it's a sin not to believe in the Christian god makes a total farce of the Christian idea of free will, no? If God gave us free will then since [he] set the entire structure up, [he] should respect the decisions that free will makes whether [he] likes them or not, no? If [he] doesn't like what people freely decide, then [he] shouldn't have given them free will in the first place, surely?

 

[LuisDantas]

Seems a lot of people who are not Christians are obsessed with Christianity. As if they still struggle with whether or not it is true.

There are a few billion people who are not Christians, therefore what you say here is probably technically true. Even if just one non-Christian person of each thousand of us fits the bill, we are still talking about millions of people.

And that may very well be indeed the exact situation. It seems to be me. You are in all likelihood technically correct, but that in no way displays a significant trend.

The claims of Christianity are not true, and the Bible is fiction. It contradicts science, archaeology, common sense, and document analysis.

Yep. Although there may be some measure of archeological or historical truth in the Bible for those who know how to dig it. But not very much, and not too easily found either.

It is worthwhile to learn about this topic. But once realizing the truth of the matter, it seems to me, the proper response is to wholeheartedly believe, to let go of the lie. Perhaps some will want to share their understandings about the topic with others.

I have at one point studied some of the most morally questionable parts of the Bible. I still keep a Brazilian Portuguese page with my Cliff's Notes take on my findings.

That brought me enough familiarity with the Bible to be surprised that so many people hold it in such high regard. At this point I am quite certain that whatever merits Christianity have are due to the ability of Christians to transcend their scripture, not to be faithful to it.

That said, such a situation is not in itself unusual, and it is certainly not unadvisable either. Religious people are supposed to have the courage to transcend their own scriptures, IMO. Living hearts and minds should know better than words from long ago crystalized on paper, and no church should be expected to fail in such a basic self-imposed duty.

But it seems to me, many claim to doubt the truth claims of Christianity, but yet hang on to its ideas as if they are true even though the source of the ideas is false. For example, they worry about sin.

Again, how many is many? Even many Christians do no seem to particularly believe in sin. It is a common enough concept for Christians, Muslims, and perhaps in Judaism. Many syncretics as well, as one would expect. But otherwise it seems to be actually rather rare.

But sin is only meaningful in the context of the Christian view of God and his creation of humans and his judgement of those who reject him. If those claims are not true, the concept of sin vanishes.

I don't think that is quite true. At the very least, Islaam seems to have a fairly similar understanding.

That said, it is true that such beliefs are often kept without particularly rational or coherent justification, sometimes out of social encouragement alone.

 

[TruthSeeker1]

Seems a lot of people who are not Christians are obsessed with Christianity. As if they still struggle with whether or not it is true.

The claims of Christianity are not true, and the Bible is fiction. It contradicts science, archaeology, common sense, and document analysis.

It is worthwhile to learn about this topic. But once realizing the truth of the matter, it seems to me, the proper response is to wholeheartedly believe, to let go of the lie. Perhaps some will want to share their understandings about the topic with others.

But it seems to me, many claim to doubt the truth claims of Christianity, but yet hang on to its ideas as if they are true even though the source of the ideas is false. For example, they worry about sin. But sin is only meaningful in the context of the Christian view of God and his creation of humans and his judgement of those who reject him. If those claims are not true, the concept of sin vanishes.

Indoctrination affects everyone differently. So does deconversion. Deconverting fully and fully losing your fear of hell for example, if it was indoctrinated into you as a child, can take decades. Sometimes the pace at which you deconvert is also affected by how much learning/effort you actively put into your deconversion, in changing the way your brain has been taught to think.
The indoctrinated brain thinks differently about other areas of life as well, not only religion. It takes time to change one's MO.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Seems a lot of people who are not Christians are obsessed with Christianity. As if they still struggle with whether or not it is true.

The claims of Christianity are not true, and the Bible is fiction. It contradicts science, archaeology, common sense, and document analysis.

It is worthwhile to learn about this topic. But once realizing the truth of the matter, it seems to me, the proper response is to wholeheartedly believe, to let go of the lie. Perhaps some will want to share their understandings about the topic with others.

But it seems to me, many claim to doubt the truth claims of Christianity, but yet hang on to its ideas as if they are true even though the source of the ideas is false. For example, they worry about sin. But sin is only meaningful in the context of the Christian view of God and his creation of humans and his judgement of those who reject him. If those claims are not true, the concept of sin vanishes.

You said in your above statement --->The claims of Christianity are not true, and the Bible is fiction. It contradicts science, archaeology, common sense, and document analysis)

Archaeology is the study of human history and prehistory through the excavation of sites and the analysis of artifacts and other physical remains)

So what we find is, that Archaeology excavation of sites prehistory, such as dinosaur bones.
Which are found to out date the earth by about a million years or so, So the earth is not 6000 years old, as the young creationist say it is.

The bible that you say, contradicts Archaeology, the bible supports the findings of Archaeology.

With in the pages of the bible speaks about the three Heaven's and earth ages.

The first earth age is where the dinosaur bones came from. In the bible that you claim contradicts Archaeology and science, tells what happened to that first earth age of prehistoric dinosaurs.
That are now found in the ground of the earth.

Because the bible contradicts what people will say, That the earth is only 6000 years old.
The bible plainly shows the earth to be millions to billions years old.

Because the bible is found in supporting archaeology findings, there are those people who can not handle this fact.

 

[TruthSeeker1]

You said in your above statement --->The claims of Christianity are not true, and the Bible is fiction. It contradicts science, archaeology, common sense, and document analysis)

Archaeology is the study of human history and prehistory through the excavation of sites and the analysis of artifacts and other physical remains)

So what we find is, that Archaeology excavation of sites prehistory, such as dinosaur bones.
Which are found to out date the earth by about a million years or so, So the earth is not 6000 years old, as the young creationist say it is.

The bible that you say, contradicts Archaeology, the bible supports the findings of Archaeology.

With in the pages of the bible speaks about the three Heaven's and earth ages.

The first earth age is where the dinosaur bones came from. In the bible that you claim contradicts Archaeology and science, tells what happened to that first earth age of prehistoric dinosaurs.
That are now found in the ground of the earth.

Because the bible contradicts what people will say, That the earth is only 6000 years old.
The bible plainly shows the earth to be millions to billions years old.

Because the bible is found in supporting archaeology findings, there are those people who can not handle this fact.

That's because those with bias will pick and choose what archeological, scientific, geneological or any other findings, fit their narrative, and they will ignore the rest and claim that it's not "scientific" enough.
You can square evolution or anything else you so desire to with the bible.
The bottom line is, is one's motivation to square something with the bible? It's not intellectual honesty, to look at and weigh all the factors for and against, with the motivation that it must fit the biblical narrative. It's the desire to believe, and to fit the evidence with that belief, because the alternative is unthinkable. And Christians will be the last ones to admit this is what they do.

 

[Faithofchristian]

That's because those with bias will pick and choose what archeological, scientific, geneological or any other findings, fit their narrative, and they will ignore the rest and claim that it's not "scientific" enough.
You can square evolution or anything else you so desire to with the bible.
The bottom line is, is one's motivation to square something with the bible? It's not intellectual honesty, to look at and weigh all the factors for and against, with the motivation that it must fit the biblical narrative. It's the desire to believe, and to fit the evidence with that belief, because the alternative is unthinkable. And Christians will be the last ones to admit this is what they do.

That all depends on which Christians your referring to.

Archaeology has proven the dinosaur bones as being millions of years old. Which puts the earth just as old.
And the bible supports archaeology,
the earth as being millions of years old.

 

[TruthSeeker1]

That all depends on which Christians your referring to.

Archaeology has proven the dinosaur bones as being millions of years old. Which puts the earth just as old.
And the bible supports archaeology,
the earth as being millions of years old.

And, that all depends on your interpretation of the bible.

 

[Trackdayguy]

There is only ONE way to interpret the Bible and that is "DONT TAKE IT LITERALLY"

Then we can all live in harmony because if you like fish on friday then fine even if dont and I choose a Poly marriage over a monogamous one, no problem, Because "IF IT'S TRUE FOR YOU THEN ITS TRUE"

Why is this so difficult to understand.

 

[Faithofchristian]

And, that all depends on your interpretation of the bible.

Since your saying I'm wrong, where's your proof in the bible to show where I'm wrong at.
You spoke it, now it's up to you, to provide the evidence of proof to show where I'm wrong at in the bible.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Seems a lot of people who are not Christians are obsessed with Christianity. As if they still struggle with whether or not it is true.

The claims of Christianity are not true, and the Bible is fiction. It contradicts science, archaeology, common sense, and document analysis.

It is worthwhile to learn about this topic. But once realizing the truth of the matter, it seems to me, the proper response is to wholeheartedly believe, to let go of the lie. Perhaps some will want to share their understandings about the topic with others.

But it seems to me, many claim to doubt the truth claims of Christianity, but yet hang on to its ideas as if they are true even though the source of the ideas is false. For example, they worry about sin. But sin is only meaningful in the context of the Christian view of God and his creation of humans and his judgement of those who reject him. If those claims are not true, the concept of sin vanishes.

My first thought is that if you and your religion-mates are going to impose your religion on people who aren't Christians, then don't complain when they have something to say about it.

Christianity is the most popular religion in the West and in the English-speaking world. This means that on an English language forum like this one, most of the talk about church-state separation will focus on things that Christians have done. It also means that most of the people who show up here looking for advice on how to deal with difficult religious family will be talking about problems with Christians. It also means that most of the religious people who come here and start threads to invite discussion of their own religion will be Christian. It also means that most of the atheists here who were raised religiously were raised Christian.

So no: the fact that your religion has imposed itself on non-adherents and attempted for centuries to make itself the focus of people's lives is not a sign of its correctness.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Since your saying I'm wrong, where's your proof in the bible to show where I'm wrong at.
You spoke it, now it's up to you, to provide the evidence of proof to show where I'm wrong at in the bible.

This response is surly a classic reason why religion is so polarizing and decisive. If you choose to interpret the Bible one way and some else chooses to interpret it another what does it matter? if its true and working for you what does it matter what others think. Why are religious people continually seeking to convince others their right.

I've heard it for years
1. Your not interpreting the Bible correctly
2. You dont understand
3. Disconnect your brain and have faith

And many more, get over it, If people dont like what you believe, WHO CARES.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There is only ONE way to interpret the Bible and that is "DONT TAKE IT LITERALLY"

How dogmatic of you.

Your own take on dogmatism, but dogmatic nonetheless.

Then we can all live in harmony because if you like fish on friday then fine even if dont and I choose a Poly marriage over a monogamous one, no problem, Because "IF IT'S TRUE FOR YOU THEN ITS TRUE"

Why is this so difficult to understand.

Because "if if it's true for you then it's true" is self-contradictory nonsense, even in all caps.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This response is surly a classic reason why religion is so polarizing and decisive. If you choose to interpret the Bible one way and some else chooses to interpret it another what does it matter? if its true and working for you what does it matter what others think. Why are religious people continually seeking to convince others their right.

I've heard it for years
1. Your not interpreting the Bible correctly
2. You dont understand
3. Disconnect your brain and have faith

And many more, get over it, If people dont like what you believe, WHO CARES.

This a very strange post for someone who just finished criticizing another person's interpretation of the Bible.