Non-Christians. Why do you care so much about Christians and Christianity?

[viole]

So much so that you spend hours here debating and arguing with them post after post after post.

(And yes, I realize that I do it myself and that people might expect my answer, but rather than possibly influencing the answers of others I'm going to wait with mine. )

.

Because if instead of believing in Jesus, they believed in a blue fairy telling them that abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia, etc. is a no go, I would care much more about bluefairism, instead.

Ciao

- viole

 

[RabbiO]

And I humbly thank you. You actually sound a lot like Jesus.

Yeah, metis is so old.... I mean mature....that he could say, "Before Abraham I am." and be telling the truth.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Because if instead of believing in Jesus, they believed in a blue fairy telling them that abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia, etc. is a no go, I would care much more about bluefairism, instead.

Ciao

- viole

Just a pro-life atheist walking by......please don't kill me

 

[wizanda]

That light is a freight train coming your way.

Yeah, I'm standing on the access hatch.... Plus have already been through it once, so know my way, and work for the train-line; it is the people who didn't read the warning signs saying, 'No Entry!'

 

[viole]

Just a pro-life atheist walking by......please don't kill me

Yes, but that is your position. You do not delegate it to an invisible being you believe in.

But if a pro-lifer comes to me and say that abortion is wrong because of Jesus, then it is rational for a pro-choicer to try to knock down Jesus, first.

Ciao

- viole

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Yes, but that is your position. You do not delegate it to an invisible being you believe in.

But if a pro-lifer comes to me and say that abortion is wrong because of Jesus, then it is rational for a pro-choicer to try to knock down Jesus, first.

Ciao

- viole

Touche......touche

 

[columbus]

But if a pro-lifer comes to me and say that abortion is wrong because of Jesus, then it is rational for a pro-choicer to try to knock down Jesus, first.

It is easier to just point out that elective abortion isn't even vaguely referred to in Scripture.
If Jesus or Moses or whoever had an opinion on the subject nobody knows about it. Bestiality gets noticeably more coverage. That fact alone informs my opinion of the people modern Abrahamic religionists model their ethics on.
Tom

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I think this is a good example of the types of prejudice referred to by the OP.

I'll fully admit to having a certain degree of prejudice toward Christianity. When time and time again I have been completely and utterly disappointed (or even disgusted, to be brutally honest) by what I have seen... what would you expect? I do give each and every person the benefit of the doubt upon first meeting - and I don't want you to think I haven't met any good people who were Christian. But I adamantly assert that the "good" part of those people had NOTHING to do with the fact that they were Christian, and EVERYTHING to do with how they treated other people and circumstances. This I know based on what I have seen from the vast majority of Christians I have spoken with, or witnessed the actions of directly relating to their faith and adherence to such. That's where it breaks down - not their humanity - but their religiosity.

When you take up the mantle of a belief system, and then your actions in the very vein of your belief are riddled with shameful activities and downright stupidity - what should I call a spade if not a spade?

 

[columbus]

Yes, but that is your position. You do not delegate it to an invisible being you believe in.

This rather leaves me with the impression that if religionists didn't retrofit abortion into their Scripture the way they do they wouldn't see a problem with mothers killing their babies.
Tom

 

[Polymath257]

For better or worse, Christianity is the religion I have to interact with the most. It has a significant influence on the local politics and has impacted our educational system.

Generally, I don't try to debate doctrine. I debate what science has discovered, especially the science that is denied by certain religious believers, and how religious assumptions impact our society. These are the things I care about.

I really don't care past that whether someone else has beliefs I find to be irrational.

 

[RabbiO]

As a general rule I do not debate religion be it with Christians, Muslims, Hindus or whatever. And, as a matter of fact, I have made clear my disapproval of one Jewish member of this forum whose whole reason d'etre seems to be to start threads here and on other forums disparaging Christianity.

The exception to my general rule is when either Jews or Judaism is misrepresented in a post or when a point being made relies on a mistranslation and/or misinterpretation of Jewish sources. When there is so much lack of knowledge among non-Jews about Jews and Judaism it would be a mistake to allow misinformation to go unchallenged and uncorrected.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So much so that you spend hours here debating and arguing with them post after post after post.

(And yes, I realize that I do it myself and that people might expect my answer, but rather than possibly influencing the answers of others I'm going to wait with mine. )

.

Its no secret that I dropped Christianity and no longer have a personal interest or any desire to return. That said, I still debate and question it primarily to illustrate my own experiences and thoughts over the years that have led me to where I am today. That's including scriptural debate.

Christians ought to know what the critical aspects and critques are that apply to the religion itself and to why it comes across as unrealistic and fantastical when it's claims are matched with things as they are put out as, so debate is a good platform.

I also feel that Christianity opens itself to a very well deserved and critical response in light of its nature that entices aggresive proselytization as being a form of truth for others in regards to a religion that simply dosent reflect it's claims in the real world either brought about by laymen or pastoral.

People ought to know the differences between delusion and reality as they apply, and Christianity is certainly ripe for those type of exchanges espousing it's flaws and shortcomings.

 

[columbus]

The exception to my general rule is when either Jews or Judaism is misrepresented in a post or when a point being made relies on a mistranslation and/or misinterpretation of Jewish sources.

I guess heretical Abrahamic religionists misrepresenting Judaism is just the cross you have to bear.

Tom

 

[suncowiam]

So much so that you spend hours here debating and arguing with them post after post after post.

(And yes, I realize that I do it myself and that people might expect my answer, but rather than possibly influencing the answers of others I'm going to wait with mine. )

.

Because they want us to live their lives with little to no basis of data or facts.

I could give a rat's behind how they choose to live their lives but when their ideologies start sneaking into education, health, science and other public domains, then boy do we have a problem.

All I ask is for reliable data and not speculation or hearsay from a book.

I'm not in the business to disrespect other people's thinking but respect has to be a two-way road. Religion condemns so many aspects of human lives that, again, is not proven by data.

[EDITED]
This is more of a defense against religion then it is an attack on religion.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

And we have you to trust to be honest about it all.

While I attend a Christian church and see nothing that you have mentioned.

That bolded, underlined, italicized bit above... take note of it... that I know of, ALMOST NONE of the other parishioners or attendees of any of the services I went to saw any of the things I did either. They were blinded to it by the very thing that brought them all together. It's the saddest of things, honestly. I take no pleasure in witnessing any of it. In fact it is a torturous endeavor to have to sit there while your faith in humanity is stuck down again and again and again. I know you don't believe me - which is your right, but I am being completely honest about my feelings and my reasoning for them.

Here's an attempt at a short list (and be sure this is barely anything at all... I could go on and on and on...):

• A "faith healer" shutting off his mic and taking a young man to the side to (basically) "coach" him when he denied having felt healed.
• Rumors that a man's finger literally grew back during an evening service - being spread by a pastor, and then when he brought up the evening on the next morning, he had a woman who claimed her back pains abated stand up (her back STILL bent like a shepherd's hook) before the congregation for applause. Where the hell was the guy whose finger grew back?! Why point out anyone at all if not him?
• A person escorted out (fairly roughly, because the person put up a fight) because their version of "speaking in tongues" came out in actual English, and people didn't like what they were saying
• An elderly couple who were told to tithe to the church in order to improve their (impoverished) lives - they did so, and when they came back a year later, no better off financially, and asked the church if it could help them out on their mortgage for the month, they were quickly and easily denied. The pastor wouldn't even look them in the eye afterward - he had literally told them that tithing would lead to them being repaid in multiples.
• A pastor thanking God for sending someone else's food (an accident by the wait-staff that he didn't correct!) to their table on his and his wife's anniversary out at a restaurant.
• A pastor taking advantage of his secular employer in such a way that a recording error had him getting a full paycheck for only putting in half the hours - continuing to do so after he found out and literally laugh about it.
• Cutting this list short (attempting) for brevity...

And tons of "lesser" things that are not necessarily of moral concern, but just plain ridiculous and intellectually vapid (WAY more of these examples, but again, trying to keep it somewhat brief):

• The pastor's wife of one church doing a sermon and basically stating she needs music to get her in the mood to pray and commune with God - how would you feel if we were friends and whenever you called I told you to hold on a few minutes while I got myself into the mood to talk to you?
• Pettiness to no end - people complaining about the music selection played by the "worship team", as if a personally tailored concert means anything when compared to the real reason they are supposed to be getting together.
• Heavy money spent on coffee for morning attendees - is this why you attend church? Is there no better use of this money?
• Another pastor's wife claiming God was weighing missions heavily on her heart... EXPENSIVE missions, which she and her husband struggled with - mostly his denying her based on (valid) monetary concerns, and arguments over such. She claimed that over a year later, she discovered that it was (no joke) actually the voice of Satan ("The Enemy") that had been trying to deceive her into thinking it was God, and that she was finally able to come to terms with not answering this "call".
• A parishioner standing up, ad-hoc/unscripted during a sermon to give a speech about the blessings one can receive with proper fidelity to the church (the sermon that day was about giving... that is... money). I was waiting for something fairly profound... instead the man started in about how he never thought he'd be able to buy this brand new car he had been wanting for $35,000, and finally he was able. That was it. Nothing else. And a hearty (if completely misguided) cheer went up from the crowd.

You want more, just ask. I have so much more it's terrible.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So much so that you spend hours here debating and arguing with them post after post after post..

Because I live in an essentially Christian world, which is all too often very interested in meddling in my life. I am, of course, interested in other religions and philosophy which seek to mold me to their way of thinking too, but there's a lot less of that around me. If I lived in the Muslim world, my focus would be on Islam.

The laws of any nation reflect the people of that nation, and Christianity has shaped much of the law I live in -- just as Islam has had a powerful impact on Shariah and the laws of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Indonesia and so on. But I believe strongly that laws need to be shaped in such a way that they do not kowtow to myth, but cater to the realities of the lives of all citizens. And a lot of religious people would like to see me slapped down for it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

• When I first came here, my then-wife (now ex-wife) was desperately worried for my soul and wanted for me to be baptized, but wasn't willing to talk through the problems I had with the religion she wanted me to adopt. That reason no longer applies, but maybe some of the habit of discussing Christianity didn't.
• I subsidize religion with my tax dollars... especially Christianity and especially Catholicism in particular. Religions - especially Christianity - try to impose their will on me and my loved ones by influencing laws and policies that affect me and my loved ones. That entitles me to my say.
• I'm trying desperately to find a way to respect Christianity. I don't want to think less of a person just because they're a devout Christian.

The last one is the main motivation for posting about Christianity these days.

 

[Kenny]

I wonder how the Abrahamic religions became so influential in the world, so influential in my up bringing. Why the belief is so "necessary" for so many people.

What about these belief keeps folks clinging to them. Why the techniques of religious indoctrination continue to work in a modern world.

Why folks believe what they believe to fascinating to me I suppose.

I wasn't "one of them" but I started staring into the light and.... ZAP!

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

That light is a freight train coming your way.

Ciao

- viole

No, no...it's not a freight train, it's a passenger train...

 

[metis]

And I humbly thank you. You actually sound a lot like Jesus.

And I can walk on water when the sidewalk is wet.