"non-denominational" churches

[Scuba Pete]

UD,

You and I differ in what constitutes an "attack".


Using your logic, anytime I merely DISAGREE with the Roman Catholic Church, I am attacking it. It's appears to be quite a knee jerk reaction to a legitimate difference of opinion.

Have I alledged any illegitamacy of the Catholic faith? No. I have stated in this thread about NON DENOMINATIONAL CHURCHES about what I believe constitutes one. I don't believe that the Catholic Church has ever laid claim to being "non-denominational", but please correct me if I am wrong. I have not laid claim that the Catholic church has "no basis" which is something you continually say about me. I would rather try to understand than to assume, but hey... your approach seems to be quite different. Since SOGFPP refers to you as the "cavalry", perhaps you find it convenient to shoot first and ask questions later. Me? I'll put my faith in Calvary and continue to explain my beliefs as calmly and as rationally as I can. You have the option of trying to understand what I believe the Bible has to say and/or to explain your beliefs. You also have the freedom to cast aspersions on my beliefs, but you should be prepeared for me to defend my honor.

 

[Stormygale]

Perhaps all have read my entry in a negative light. I apologize and do not cast stones. I bow humbly and upon going back and reading my post, I see how it can be misleading...
-
I respect everyone and their choice of religion. I am just saying that the two types of religions I was raised in are totally different. One seems to have life and the other appeared to have just been hollow. That is all....
-
Me~

 

[Scuba Pete]

Stormy Gale...

Your experiences are your experiences. Why should someone constitute those as attacks? It sounds that you have had some bad luck with churches. It's probably best though to not use a broad brush in coloring all churches to be similar.

 

[glasgowchick]

Perhaps all have read my entry in a negative light. I apologize and do not cast stones. I bow humbly and upon going back and reading my post, I see how it can be misleading...
-
I respect everyone and their choice of religion. I am just saying that the two types of religions I was raised in are totally different. One seems to have life and the other appeared to have just been hollow. That is all....
-
Me~

Hi Stormy, that was very humble of you, apoligy accepted Thankyou

Heres another joke for you

Preacher goes to a womens house to preach the gospel
while he was there he notices a bowl of nuts on the table
before he knew where he was, he had eaten all the womens nuts
He was so apoligetic that he said to the women I shall go and get you some more
She said "Oh Please" you don't have to do that,
besides she said I can't chew the nuts, I just suck the chocolate off them :biglaugh:

 

[Uncertaindrummer]

UD,

You and I differ in what constitutes an "attack".


Using your logic, anytime I merely DISAGREE with the Roman Catholic Church, I am attacking it. It's appears to be quite a knee jerk reaction to a legitimate difference of opinion.

Have I alledged any illegitamacy of the Catholic faith? No. I have stated in this thread about NON DENOMINATIONAL CHURCHES about what I believe constitutes one. I don't believe that the Catholic Church has ever laid claim to being "non-denominational", but please correct me if I am wrong. I have not laid claim that the Catholic church has "no basis" which is something you continually say about me. I would rather try to understand than to assume, but hey... your approach seems to be quite different. Since SOGFPP refers to you as the "cavalry", perhaps you find it convenient to shoot first and ask questions later. Me? I'll put my faith in Calvary and continue to explain my beliefs as calmly and as rationally as I can. You have the option of trying to understand what I believe the Bible has to say and/or to explain your beliefs. You also have the freedom to cast aspersions on my beliefs, but you should be prepeared for me to defend my honor.

I am sorry if you take my posts the wrong way. I believe the limtis of the internet have somewhat handicapped my ability to seem charitable. I am not bashing you or your beliefs at all. I am merely asking you where they come from. You disagree with me, so I was trying to see why. You started quoting the Bible and yet you still have not shown a reason for why you believe in the Bible, so your quotes hold very little weight.

I am indeed sorry if you were offended by my posts.

 

[Uncertaindrummer]

That I will agree with... Mathew 28:18-20 And Jesus came up and spoke unto them " ALL Authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.. [ HIM CHRIST] 19 and what does he do with His Authority? he tells us in Matthew 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name fo the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you and lo I am with you always even till the end of the age..I don't know how you tell people the Gospel, but if you where telling the Gospel and they asked " by who's authority do you have to preach such things " would you say you have Christ Jesus authority or the popes authority?...Hebrews1:1-2 tells us GOD, After he spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days he spoke to us through His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world..The apostles had the authority to go preach the Gospels, including all followers of Christ have that same authority, it was commissioned by Christ...We are all a "Royal priesthood" in Gods eyes....

Do you believe that the Church is a higher authority than the Scripture, If so what your saying is I should believe the Bible because the catholic church says so...To me I believe the bible is the word of God because GOD said it is His word...The Apostles taught the teachings of Christ, so in turn Christ is my teacher and my head..I recieve all these books and these books only, as Holy and canonical, for the regulation, foundation and confirmation of my faith, believing without any doubt all things contained in them not because the church says so as such, but because the Holy Spirit reveals it to us in our hearts they are from God, and also because they carry the evidence thereof within themselves....There is no man and no Church here on earth with greater Authority than Christ Himself..

It is Authority Christ GAVE His Church. Not only that, HE is guiding His Church. But regardless, that is besides the point. You claim you believe the Bible because it is God's word. WHO TOLD YOU THAT? Why do you believe it is God's word? Just because you have always believed it? Have you ever tried to figure out a reason for believing in the Bible?

 

[Scuba Pete]

You mean OTHER than the Bible???

I am not sure that I need any other reason than the Bible to believe in the Bible. Why don't you believe in it? (If I may be so bold as to ask...)

 

[Scott1]

I am not sure that I need any other reason than the Bible to believe in the Bible.

While I hold your faith (and you personally) in high regard.... it is the circular logic employed in your faith that we Catholics (and others) find.... ummm.... less than rational and unworthy of intellectual respect.

Why don't you believe in it? (If I may be so bold as to ask...)

I am fairly certain that UD believes very strongly in the Bible and that God is the author of Sacred Scripture..... as do I..... but we believe this to be true for very different reasons.

I believe in the Bible because I believe in the Church.

 

[glasgowchick]

its the authority God gave his church

Really? define church? In My bible it tells me when we hear the word, believe, confess Christ as Lord, repent and be baptized, it is then The Lord added me to his Church...

He is Guiding His Church

what straight into apostasy..Exodus 20:4 you shall not make for yourself an Idol or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth..5 for you shall not worship them or serve them, for I your Lord is a jealouse God, visiting the inquitity of the fathers on the children on the thrid and forth generations of those who hate me...

who told you that

Umm apart from sitting in Chaple and hearing the the reader starting with a letter from Paul to the romans blah blah and finishing off with " This is the word of the Lord".. If The bible is not the word of the Lord then what is it a pack of lies..

Just because you have always believed it

So you know what I have always believed ?

Have you ever tried to figure out a reason for believing the bible

It is Authority Christ GAVE His Church. Not only that, HE is guiding His Church. But regardless, that is besides the point. You claim you believe the Bible because it is God's word. WHO TOLD YOU THAT? Why do you believe it is God's word? Just because you have always believed it? Have you ever tried to figure out a reason for believing in the Bible?

Don't need a reason, your the one that is not happy with the bible only..not me, I don't have a problem with it....

 

[Scuba Pete]

Hey Scott,

I have NEVER claimed that my faith was anything other than "revealed". Like my salvation, it has been given to me: I did not earn it.

Ephesians 1:15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way. NIV

 

[Uncertaindrummer]

Really? define church? In My bible it tells me when we hear the word, believe, confess Christ as Lord, repent and be baptized, it is then The Lord added me to his Church...

Sure. No problems there. Assuming you were Baptized into the Catholic Church.

what straight into apostasy..Exodus 20:4 you shall not make for yourself an Idol or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth..5 for you shall not worship them or serve them, for I your Lord is a jealouse God, visiting the inquitity of the fathers on the children on the thrid and forth generations of those who hate me...

So? The Catholic Church doesn't worship idols. That is ridiculous.

Umm apart from sitting in Chaple and hearing the the reader starting with a letter from Paul to the romans blah blah and finishing off with " This is the word of the Lord".. If The bible is not the word of the Lord then what is it a pack of lies.. So you know what I have always believed ? Don't need a reason, your the one that is not happy with the bible only..not me, I don't have a problem with it....

Do you not SEE the error in logic here? You are believing in the Bible because the Bible SAYS SO? Then you also have to believe in the Qu'ran, the Book of Mormon, and countless other religious books because those books as well "say so".

 

[Scott1]

I have NEVER claimed that my faith was anything other than "revealed".

Not sure what your point is.... I'm not trying to discuss your personal faith, rather I'm trying to learn about your theology and the Bible-only/non-denom beliefs you hold.

Like my salvation, it has been given to me: I did not earn it.

Super.... I didn't earn mine, either..... and for "proof" of this you quote me a bible verse where Paul prays for the Spirit to intercede --- which makes it obvious to me that he knew the written words would NOT be enough.

Again... not sure what point you were trying to make, please clarify.

 

[Scuba Pete]

So Scott...

You rely on your church.

I rely on the Spirit.

We are having an interesting discussion on the Spirit elsewhere on the forum.

 

[Scott1]

You rely on your church.

I rely on the Spirit.

And my Church is filled with the Holy Spirit.... again, I don't know what point you are trying to make.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Then you should understand the role of the Spirit in our faith.

This seems as if it is way off topic, but who am I to know.

 

[Scott1]

Then you should understand the role of the Spirit in our faith.

This seems as if it is way off topic, but who am I to know.

Well.... I'm trying.... and that's why it ON TOPIC.... I can't understand the notion of non-denom/bible only/evangelical/fundamental etc churches without a basic understanding of your theology.... don't understand the resisitance.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Well then... ask your question differently... maybe I can understand what you are driving at?

 

[Scott1]

Hehe... I give up.... love ya ND.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Friend Scott...

I feel that we are talking right past each other. I really wish to understand the question. But everytime I think I answer it, it seems to come up short.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Question: "What is the purpose of the church?"



Answer: What is the purpose of the church? Acts 2:42 describes the early church, “They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.” So, according to this Scripture, the purposes / activities of the church should be: (1) teaching Biblical doctrine, (2) providing a place of fellowship for believers, (3) observing the Lord’s supper, and (4) praying.



The church is to teach Biblical doctrine so we can be grounded in our faith. Ephesians 4:14 tells us, “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.” The church is to be a place of fellowship, where Christians can be devoted to one another and honor one another (Romans 12:10), instruct one another (Romans 15:14), be kind and compassionate to one another (Ephesians 4:32), encourage one another (1 Thessalonians 5:11), and most importantly love one another (1 John 3:11).



The church is to be a place where believers can observe the Lord’s supper, remembering Christ’s death and shed blood on our behalf (1 Corinthians 11:23-26). The concept of “breaking bread” (Acts 2:42) also carries the idea of having meals together. This is another example of the church promoting fellowship. The final purpose of the church according to Acts 2:42 is prayer. The church is to be a place that promotes prayer, teaches prayer, and practices prayer. Philippians 4:6-7 encourages us, “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”



Another “commission” given to the church is proclaiming the Gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8). The church is called to be faithful in sharing the Gospel through word and deed. The church is to be a “lighthouse” in the community – pointing people towards our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The church is to both promote the Gospel and prepare its members to proclaim the Gospel (1 Peter 3:15).



Some final purposes of the church are given in James 1:27, “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” The church is to be about the business of ministering to those who are in need. This includes not only sharing the Gospel, but also providing for physical needs (food, clothing, shelter) as necessary and appropriate. The church is also to equip believers in Christ with the tools they need to overcome sin and remain free from the pollution of the world. This is done by the principles given above – Biblical teaching and Christian fellowship.



So, with all that said, what is the purpose of the church? I like the illustration in 1 Corinthians 12:12-27. The church is God’s “body” – we are His hands, mouth, and feet in this world. We are to be doing the things that Jesus Christ would do if He were here physically on the earth. The church is to be “Christian” – “Christ-like” and Christ-following.