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Non-Trinitarians: What's wrong with the Trinity?

j1i

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
All deities are represented by stones, pictures, and symbols
That is, to provide logistical support to the goddess to show her ability to survive, Stay and continue
The truth is that the gods are a past history that has ended and has disappeared execution, demise and end
There is no proof of the Trinity
I can bring proof that there is one great God
But otherwise no one can prove the existence of a deity other than God who is above the heavens

It is not in the books of the Old Testament that the Christians believe in and who gave the news of these prophets and their call that these prophets called for the worship of the God of the Persons of the Persons or pronounced the words of the Trinity and the like. They called for the worship of one God who has no partner and this is also found in the books of the Old Testament among the Jews and Christians.

And from that: • God’s words to Abraham, peace be upon him, as in the Old Testament, Genesis (7/17): “I will establish a covenant between me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, an eternal covenant to be a god for you and your offspring from afar.”

God said to Moses, peace be upon him, in the Sinai stage in his words to him, as it is in the Old Testament that Christians believe in the book of Exodus (3/15): “God also said to Moses, thus you say to the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, sent me to you.” .

In the same book (4/5), God said to Moses: “The Lord, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And this speech of God to Moses came with this text in the Bible. See Luke (20/37).

And it came in the Old Testament in the book of Isaiah (6/44): (Thus the Lord says the King of Israel and his servant, the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last and there is no god but me and no one someone like me) This is Hezekiah, one of their prophets addresses the Lord: (You are the God alone) The Book of Isaiah (37) / 16).

If we say that these prophets and messengers are lost from knowing their God (the Trinity), their idol and their Creator, but Christians guided tothe Trinity) in the fourth century AD (this shows that Christians are more efficient than the prophets).

It says in the European Encyclopedia in French about the doctrine of the Trinity: (It is not found in the books of the New Testament, nor in the works of the Apostolic Fathers, nor among their close pupils, except that the Catholic Church and the traditional Protestant doctrine claim that the doctrine of the Trinity was acceptable to Christians at all times). It says in the circle of acquaintances of Peter the gardener, who is a Christian: (the word trinity does not exist in the Bible).

John's Gospel (3/17) by Jesus, peace be upon him, while addressing God Almighty He raised his eyes to heaven Christ said to the Lord: “This is the eternal life that they know you are the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”

The word hypostasis that is at the heart of their faith does not exist in the Gospels, nor in any of the books of the Prophets they have, nor in the words of the Apostles, but not even in their innovative doctrine of faith, but rather a word they invented after that.

As Christ said to someone who wants to kill him: (You ask that you kill me while I am a man who spoke to you about the truth that he heard from God) John (8/40) Then he said: (We have one father, who is God) John (8/41). The son of God was the conclusion of his answer that he is the son of man. John (1 / 49-51) and the interpretation of my Lord, if it was said to Christ, that is, Master, as stated in John (1/38), then this is the text that explains the similarity.
 
j1i

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
metis said:
Actually, you can't, but don't feel bad because no one can. Such is a "belief" based on one's "faith", thus no proof is needed or even available.
Click to expand...

thank you for replying
I got the idea
In fact, there is no physical evidence that God exists

But if we use the comparisons process
We will drop all things to be only one thing
And it is the beginning or (source of existence) which is God

My proof is the word of God (the Qur’an). If I discuss it, it will appear that he will not be human
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
metis said:
Actually, you can't, but don't feel bad because no one can. Such is a "belief" based on one's "faith", thus no proof is needed or even available.
Click to expand...
8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
cataway said:
8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
Click to expand...
As a statement of belief, that's fine, and I accept it on that basis.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
74x12 said:
By the Catholic church no less ... the people that brought us inquisitions, paying the Pope to absolve sins etc. Well they've certainly never been wrong before ...
Click to expand...
The "Church" did no such thing, but some people within the Church, including some Popes, did.
 
InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
cataway said:
exodus 33:20
20 But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.”
and yet Jesus was seen by many = Jesus is not God
Click to expand...
Jesus became Human so people could see Him and know God more personally. When the scriptures state that no man can see God and live, I believe it means seeing God in the Spiritual state in all His brilliance, power and glory... as in this state God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29).
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Katzpur said:
So you're saying that God is His own Son, and that Jesus is His own Father? o_O When Stephen "looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God," what exactly do you think He was seeing?
Click to expand...
Yes, it's no surprise because God is only one and that's what He said over and over. And He even said there is no god except me. So that excludes the idea that Jesus is another "god" sitting beside the Father. There is only one God and none beside Him. So the Son of God is the human manifestation of God.

I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: (Isaiah 45:5)​

Stephen saw Jesus on the right hand of God. This is the human "Son of man" that has now been raised from the earth to the right hand of God. This "right hand of God" is a position of authority or power.

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Matthew 26:64)

Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God. (Luke 22:69)​

Specifically, it means that Jesus has been given all power in heaven and in earth.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (Matthew 28:18)​

You're probably thinking but I thought He was God; he should already have all power. Correct and He does have all power as God; but this is the first time a human being has been given all power in heaven and earth. That's the key difference.

Which is what Revelation 11:17 is talking about. It says that the "Almighty" took great power to Himself and reigned. So why does the All powerful God need to "take" power for Himself? He should already have all power. It's because He did it in human form. This power was taken through the Son of man: Jesus Christ.

Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. (Revelation 11:17)​

So why was it so important to give all power to a human being? It was in order to effectively defeat the enemies of mankind and save humans. You see, God has no need to defeat these enemies for Himself because He cannot be harmed by them. But, by taking on human nature He made our enemies into His own enemies as well. That's why Jesus rises from the dead first. Because He is defeating our enemy: death.

The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Psalm 110:1)
​
So this shows us why Jesus the Son of God in glorified human form must sit on the right hand of the power of God. It is so that He can eventually put all His enemies under His (human) feet. This will accomplish complete victory for all humans who put their trust in Him.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)​

So, Jesus sits on the right hand until His work is finished and then He will deliver the kingdom up to the Father restored, complete and whole. Then God will be "all in all". And this is work that the Son of man Christ has left to do.
 
101G

101G

Well-Known Member
GINOLJC to all,
Yes, Jesus is God in flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state. that's why one can see Jesus/God and live.

and while in this state of G2758 κενόω kenoo he was able to die not the spirit, but the flesh. for the body, the body, the body without the spirit is DEAD.

PICJAG.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
101G said:
GINOLJC to all,
Yes, Jesus is God in flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state. that's why one can see Jesus/God and live.

and while in this state of G2758 κενόω kenoo he was able to die not the spirit, but the flesh. for the body, the body, the body without the spirit is DEAD.

PICJAG.
Click to expand...

Does that have any foundation for the trinity?
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
74x12 said:
Yes, it's no surprise because God is only one and that's what He said over and over. And He even said there is no god except me. So that excludes the idea that Jesus is another "god" sitting beside the Father. There is only one God and none beside Him. So the Son of God is the human manifestation of God.

I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: (Isaiah 45:5)​

Stephen saw Jesus on the right hand of God. This is the human "Son of man" that has now been raised from the earth to the right hand of God. This "right hand of God" is a position of authority or power.

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Matthew 26:64)

Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God. (Luke 22:69)​

Specifically, it means that Jesus has been given all power in heaven and in earth.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (Matthew 28:18)​

You're probably thinking but I thought He was God; he should already have all power. Correct and He does have all power as God; but this is the first time a human being has been given all power in heaven and earth. That's the key difference.

Which is what Revelation 11:17 is talking about. It says that the "Almighty" took great power to Himself and reigned. So why does the All powerful God need to "take" power for Himself? He should already have all power. It's because He did it in human form. This power was taken through the Son of man: Jesus Christ.

Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. (Revelation 11:17)​

So why was it so important to give all power to a human being? It was in order to effectively defeat the enemies of mankind and save humans. You see, God has no need to defeat these enemies for Himself because He cannot be harmed by them. But, by taking on human nature He made our enemies into His own enemies as well. That's why Jesus rises from the dead first. Because He is defeating our enemy: death.

The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Psalm 110:1)
​
So this shows us why Jesus the Son of God in glorified human form must sit on the right hand of the power of God. It is so that He can eventually put all His enemies under His (human) feet. This will accomplish complete victory for all humans who put their trust in Him.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)​

So, Jesus sits on the right hand until His work is finished and then He will deliver the kingdom up to the Father restored, complete and whole. Then God will be "all in all". And this is work that the Son of man Christ has left to do.
Click to expand...
perhaps what you have missed is that the Father is the only TRUE God . Jesus can do many things but can only do what the father wants him to do
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Even if Trinity is a latter theological invention it still reflects fundamental archetypal/esoteric truths. There is some correspondence with yin-yang archetypes (ying, yang and balance as the third). Father - giver, Son - receiver, Spirit - relationship/dynamic ... Trinity pattern is observable in nature. Sight - three primal colors. Music - triads (chords)...
 
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