Nonbelievers to Hell!

[logician]

"Bandwagon" arguments hold no merit. Millions of people agreed with Hitler's genocide of the Jews. Doesn't make it right.

 

[PolyHedral]

because they are not equal to, or comparable with ,in their entire substance or feel, spirituality, or outcome, to atheism, or lack of belief in any sort of way, WHICH signifies athiesm to be more emergent & confined within the box of 'lack of evidence based negative thought processes'

But that isn't what I said. I said that love, et. al, is a high-level consequence of how the brain works, and AFAIK, there isn't any evidence against that idea.

Well, "This is the best applied, tested , proved, tested again and proved again, Explanation, Method and Positive result, by billions of people of faith , over hundreds and thousands of years " stands much heavier than a few neo-scientists contemplating to 'This is the best explanation so far, untill we are proved wrong again, in a few months."

Except no non-trivial concept of God has been tested, which is a bit of a problem as far as science is concerned.

 

[Starsoul]

But that isn't what I said. I said that love, et. al, is a high-level consequence of how the brain works, and AFAIK, there isn't any evidence against that idea.


Except no non-trivial concept of God has been tested, which is a bit of a problem as far as science is concerned.

Well, that clearly concludes that science isnt capable of testing God, neither is science capable of determining of the spiritual dimensions that humans use to communicate with God.

Science has limitations regarding laws of practicability, just because science hasn't been able to specify what really is in the black hole, doesn't mean that there is nothing in the black hole.

 

[PolyHedral]

Science should be able to find "spiritual dimensions", since, in order to communicate through them, they must empirically exist.

But what is "in" a black hole is a nonsensical question, since a black hole has no volume.

 

[Starsoul]

Well, the outcry wasn't against gods that don't throw unbelievers in hell -- the outcry was against god concepts that DO throw unbelievers in hell. That's what we were saying is a cruel and unjust god.

As for seeking evidence for god, I'd say many atheists -- including myself -- are open to the question, so it's interesting that no god has really shown up. It would make sense that if a god wanted us to be with them they would provide us with evidence, but alas -- not so far.

So you are saying that you will only believe in the true God if He ever showed in physical evidence? Hmmm, according to His word, that is not going to happen until the day of judgment, how do you think believers hold on to faith without a Physical God? Do you really think it takes a lot of fools to decide upon a God one day, when it is much more easier not deciding upon One?

But, it is interesting to note the predictions of religion which state that A physical evidence of God , in its fake form, will be landed on Earth, and that day, athiests and non- believers will start believing in him as god, BUT he will not be the real God, he'll be given a lot of powers, and witnessing those powers will confirm to atheists that he is indeed god...

And yet, he will be defeated along with his followers and will be killed by Hazrat Eessah (pbuh)Prophet Jesus ... And then the Doomsday shall draw upon closer and atheists and non-believers, with even the slightest signs of the beginning of the Doomsday, will have their hearts gripped in utmost fear of the real God (like suddenly they will start believing in the un-seen real God, without any evidence) and will run amuck with terrifying fear over their stance on their dis-belief, but alas, that time will be too late to believe..

According to the signs, that time appears to be not too far away....May those who find the truth, keep steadfast on it.

 

[PolyHedral]

"Not only am I not going to give you a shred of evidence to validate my existence, I'm also going to actively deceive you and then blame you when you fall for it!"

Have I misinterpreted something?

 

[Starsoul]

Science should be able to find "spiritual dimensions", since, in order to communicate through them, they must empirically exist.

But what is "in" a black hole is a nonsensical question, since a black hole has no volume.

No volume in the definition of current science , if volumes get sucked into it, it must have a huge volume not measurable by any known theory.

But then, if athiests and scientists can believe that the matter of universe came into existence without any pre-existing force or form of matter, into extremely variable, diverse parallel designs, where not one molecule of a living atom resembles or can be forced to resemble to another design, i guess they can believe anything....:areyoucra

 

[PolyHedral]

No, the mathematics quite clearly show that a black hole has zero volume. Not "unmeasurable", (though in practice it would be) not "we don't know", but 0m^3.

And IIRC, all of the universe can be reduced to the interaction of 4 fields in 11 dimensions. Not to mention that atoms can be turned into other atoms quite easily.

 

[Thief]

No, the mathematics quite clearly show that a black hole has zero volume. Not "unmeasurable", (though in practice it would be) not "we don't know", but 0m^3.

And IIRC, all of the universe can be reduced to the interaction of 4 fields in 11 dimensions. Not to mention that atoms can be turned into other atoms quite easily.

Mathematics are not a 'catch all arguments' technique.

What has this to do with non-believers going to hell?

 

[Meow Mix]

Mathematics are not a 'catch all arguments' technique.

What has this to do with non-believers going to hell?

I was wondering that too, I tried to go back pages to find the last time I said something and if anyone responded and I just got lost and said screw it, too many pages ago wherever it is!

 

[Midnight Pete]

Why would a true non-believer worry about the existence of hell in the first place?

It's a valid question.

 

[Meow Mix]

Why would a true non-believer worry about the existence of hell in the first place?

It's a valid question.

Non-believer doesn't mean believer-in-not. As far as I know Hell may exist. I really doubt it though.

The OP is more of an incredulous attempt to get people who believe in concepts like Hell to really think about the ramifications of it. Why would a benevolent deity allow such a thing to exist? Why should anyone deserve infinite torment, let alone for something as innocent as non-belief in the lack of evidence?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Non-believer doesn't mean believer-in-not. As far as I know Hell may exist. I really doubt it though.

The OP is more of an incredulous attempt to get people who believe in concepts like Hell to really think about the ramifications of it. Why would a benevolent deity allow such a thing to exist? Why should anyone deserve infinite torment, let alone for something as innocent as non-belief in the lack of evidence?

Without hell, heaven cannot exist. God and sin have a matter vs. anti-matter relationship to each other. Do you know that sin cannot exist in the presence of God? That's why Lucifer and his angels were cast into the lake of fire. They weren't destroyed but they were exiled ...

 

[Penumbra]

Why would a true non-believer worry about the existence of hell in the first place?

It's a valid question.

I'm concerned with the state of the believer's morality. Blatantly sadistic beliefs, although tolerated, should not be accepted because they have no place in a civilized society.

The error of their thinking should be shown to them.

Without hell, heaven cannot exist. God and sin have a matter vs. anti-matter relationship to each other. Do you know that sin cannot exist in the presence of God? That's why Lucifer and his angels were cast into the lake of fire. They weren't destroyed but they were exiled ...

6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan [b] also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." 8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."
12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.


1 On another day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." 3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."
4 "Skin for skin!" Satan replied. "A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face."
6 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."
7 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the top of his head.

Satan was chillin' in the presence of the Lord and neither of them exploded.

 

[Meow Mix]

Without hell, heaven cannot exist. God and sin have a matter vs. anti-matter relationship to each other. Do you know that sin cannot exist in the presence of God? That's why Lucifer and his angels were cast into the lake of fire. They weren't destroyed but they were exiled ...

I'm interested in the underlined proposition.

Why do you suppose that heaven can't exist without Hell?

Allow me to offer alternatives, please explain why they are impossible:

1) Instead of eternal suffering, imperfect people go to a place not unlike earth where they have a chance for happiness

2) Instead of Hell existing, why couldn't God create the universe in such a way that "sin" was a nonconcept sort of like walking on the ceiling is impossible -- after all, we don't consider our free will infringed for not being able to walk on the ceiling; why couldn't "sin" be as impossible to do as walking on the ceiling or teleporting to pluto?

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

I certainly don't worry about hell. I like to joke that Texas is hell but I'm sure there are many many worse places in the world. Besides...if hell did exist. God would be a cosmic tyrant deserving of being overthrown in an epic cosmic space battle involving dinosaurs in space jets...with lasers(no one is going to get this reference)

 

[Thief]

I'm concerned with the state of the believer's morality. Blatantly sadistic beliefs, although tolerated, should not be accepted because they have no place in a civilized society.

The error of their thinking should be shown to them.


6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan [b] also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." 8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."
12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.


1 On another day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." 3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."
4 "Skin for skin!" Satan replied. "A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face."
6 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."
7 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the top of his head.

Satan was chillin' in the presence of the Lord and neither of them exploded.

Good timing...but you should have followed through.

The book of Job is about what God allows.

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

Omniscience "allows" things? That's a new one.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Without hell, heaven cannot exist. God and sin have a matter vs. anti-matter relationship to each other. Do you know that sin cannot exist in the presence of God? That's why Lucifer and his angels were cast into the lake of fire. They weren't destroyed but they were exiled ...

for being all powerful, it seems as though god is incapable of a lot.

 

[Midnight Pete]

for being all powerful, it seems as though god is incapable of a lot.

What do you mean?