How then can anyone actually believe this stuff?
With a huge pinch of salt,although there are some great stories in the Bible.
With a huge pinch of salt,although there are some great stories in the Bible.
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None of it is true - Does this bother anyone?
- Thread starter slave2six
- Start date
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Or at least a book of rationalizations.
slave2six
Substitious
A tie rack?
logician
Well-Known Member
If you want to be merciful.
PureX
Veteran Member
What puzzles me is the assumption that these stories are meant to be "believed" in the first place. They were told and written by men who used them as springboards for discussion, debate, and contemplation. They were not written to be "believed" as though they were newspaper accounts of actual events. I am quite certain that the originators of these stories would be very puzzled indeed by all these current day "believers" who think these stories are being told by God and are an accurate depiction of events.
To the OT authors, these stories were intellectual doorways leading to a relationship with God that was very real, very personal, and very dynamic. Their God was a "living God" that lived in their minds and hearts and showed up in their discussions and debates with each other about this divine mystery. They did not intend to depict a God of made of facts and answers, it's about a God of questions; the great unanswerable questions. Their "God" was an idea and a spirit to be grappled with. To be contended with. And ultimately to be defeated and humbled by.
I agree,i don't think it was ever meant to be taken literally.
slave2six
Substitious
Uh-huh. Right. That would explain the devout attitudes of believes in Judeo-Christianity over the past four millennia as well as all those holy wars.
It was just a springboard for discussion? Methinks not.
Anti-thesisofreason
Explorer
Christianity has been around for four millennia?
slave2six
Substitious
...Judeo-Christianity... Perhaps I should have said "Judaism and Christianity" just to be more clear.
Anti-thesisofreason
Explorer
cardero
Citizen Mod
We might not be able to completely know and understand our past. The barbaric burning and censoring of chronological texts has always thwarted us and has left us with an incomplete picture of our historical ancestry.
This would depend on if these eras interest us as individuals. I am someone who lives in the NOW so most of the kNOWledge that I procure and reason with has to be practical to my present existence and my current circumstances.
The Bible is a book that is purported to be about the relationship and interaction of God with members of humankind and the proposed universal and personal truths derived from these relations. From what I understand, after 2000 years, there seems to be major misunderstandings and discrepancies about the scriptures and how exactly they are to be interpreted to fit into the past and into our modern world. In other words, there is a lot of faith associated with a book that is supposed to be about truth.
PureX
Veteran Member
Please explain what you mean by "devout" attitudes. And what holy wars? The only holy wars I am aware of took place just a few centuries ago, and were carried out by Christians, not Jews.
You should look closer at the way the ancient Jews used their texts. They did not study them in silence as though they were written by God himself, but instead used them to inspire daily thought, discussion and debate. Their idea of "the living God" was all about how the god-concept infused their daily lives. Stories like that of Job were intended to force the reader/listener to ask themselves difficult questions regarding the relationship between man and God. They were not intended to give men pat answers, they were intended to present dilemmas, and therefor to continue the dialogue. The ancient Jewish religion was all about this living dialogue with and about "God". They believed that the highest task a man could put himself to was to
study and debate over the mystery of God. This is what it meant to be a "devout" Jew.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Thats very romantic. but we might as well throw out all history studying and all history knowledge out the window if that is the case. history has a relevant and living echo and effect on our here and now. even the Roman times have visible marks in our life.
Then you are reading it wrong, or in any case you may have let evangelists tell you what you should read out of the bible. for me the Bible is a window into the past, its a chance to study the ideologies that the classes of ancient Judah promoted, it is a chance to understand how ANE cosmogony and religion has evolved, and many other factors. faith is not even an issue.