Brian2
Veteran Member
The creator would be a good start, otherwise God would be part of the creation like we are.
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Nonsensical
- Thread starter Jimmy
- Start date
The creator would be a good start, otherwise God would be part of the creation like we are.
There ya go
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Well, evidence for deliberate creation of the universe (I assume that's what you mean) would be a start (if there was any) but even that wouldn't get you very close to most forms of theism.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Can you name a few?
You can call anything that justifies your belief as evidence, but
Seeing people as blind to your discover puts a barrier between those who really want to know and those who knows.
I can't imagine learning about god if interested if you come from the perspective people are blind.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
The worship is from humans toward God, it does not describe what God truly are
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
"God" is an adjective, an umbrella title. "That which is worshiped" can range from money, a ruler, aspects of nature, or a non-descript "Everything/love/source of life"
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
But you are not ready to apply the same measure to the God in which you believe.
And the evidence is Torah, Bible and Quran.
"That which is worshiped". There may be some 10,000 of them, certainly 5,000 in Hinduism.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Simply not true. If somebody makes a claim about the existence of something, it is perfectly reasonable to ask for evidence, regardless of what it is they claim exists.
As I already said, it's up to those making the claim to define what they mean by 'god' (as well as provide evidence).
It's quite easy to give evidence for air. So where is the evidence of 'god' and what, exactly do you mean by the word?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
How?
Apart from your belief, we need something to base your opinion on that would let us determine if you are right.
For example, why is the pagan god wrong? We have examples of pagan belief for centuries before the bible and the gods to some, like Christianity, you can't see or touch.
What's the difference?
Then you have Hindus god which I find makes more sense than abrahamic. How can you tell there is no evidence when their nature is one hundred percent opposed to each other?
How would I know?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
If you say you have evidence, we can't take your word for it. We need a common agreed criteria to determine your opinion is based on fact.
If you say you believe because if testimony, no one needs to ask. Some can to have a back and forth discussion of spiritual experiences but if you tell someone who doesn't share in your views (no confirmation bias) and you say to them there is evidence, you'd need to back up that statement for mutual understanding.
If that's impossible, saying you have evidence is misleading.
I said it would be 'like' that. Like a fish asking for evidence of water, which is what they live in. It would be like a planet asking for evidence of space then....And that would be really, really stupid! On the other hand ...
Oh, well that explains it. Thanks.
Thinking of God as "something" is exactly the problem. God is not a thing. A yeti is a thing. A dog is a thing. The Loch Ness monster is a thing. A black hole is a thing. God is not a "thing", and therefore what evidence of 'everything and nothing' can there be offered, other than pointing to everything that is?
The very second the atheist says "Where's your proof of God", they have an idea already in the mind before the question is asked what God must be like, which is as I said, a "being", or an "entity" or some creature of sorts, separate and other to everything else. If you imagine God as that, then you imagine the rule of 'evidence' applies.
Same thing applies to those theists who think they can provide evidence for God's existence, and proceed to make arguments to support miracles and whatnot as evidence. All of that has a preconception of God as "other" to the world as their starting point.
I was using a metaphor of what it is "like". For instance, a human generally does not think about the very thing they exist within (why I chose to say air). Same thing for a fish. A fish never questions if there is water. To them, that is just the environment and not a 'thing'. It's "like" that with God.
"In him we live and move and have our being". It just "Is" and isn't something outside what consists of everything they live within and gives them their very being within it. It's part of them, and they part of it. It's the unseen, yet not unexperienced.
If God is "all that is", then you have to get beyond that to see it as a "thing". You want evidence of God? Breathe. Exist. Be.
Metaphors are hard, I know. If only they were literal, we'd have evidence they were real!
Yes, as opposed to unevidenced claims which are very easy.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
So you think god is 'everything and nothing'? Makes no sense at all.
Not at all. If somebody claims that 'god exists', then it's up to them to say what they mean and provide some reason (evidence, reasoning, something) as to why I should take their claim seriously. You don't seem to want to do either.
How exactly?
You're still not making sense. I do not experience anything I'd call 'god'. I live and move and have my being in the physical universe, but that is most definitely seen.
If god is "all that is" it's a redundant and pointless label.
I'm doing all that but I'm seeing no evidence of any god. Your claims about god just look like deepity to me.
Claims of what? An entity called God? You make my point for me.
Just a few of the 3800+ creator gods of whom the followers have said exactly the same thing.
Atum
Amun
Ahura Mazda
Itzamna
Marduk
Viracocha
Izanagi
Tezcatlipoca
Ahone
Do you see evidence that any of them exists?