Not a sin anymore???

[Truth in love]

The Bible never says it's a sin to love someone. God never did, either. David and Jonathan certainly seemed to have a love that bordered on the homoerotic, at the very least. Indeed, it was described as "surpassing the love of women" (2 Samuel 1:26). Do I think they had sex or whatever? No. But they certainly seemed to have deep affections for each other that aren't shameful.

There is a major difference between best buddies and having sex. I find nothing in the Bible condemning good friends.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What does that even mean?

It means when youre trans, it's pretty common to have sex as your birth sex, and later as your transitioned to sex.
A FtM, for example, having sex with a man as a woman we would say that's straight but sex as a man with a man we'd call that gay. But going from she to he, is it really that important to figure out and have a label for?

So you're bisexual?

I'm not really sure how to describe it, especially as this isn't the eros room. But, I can say, with women it was more just trying to make myself normal and living in denial, and though I'm not really into women I'm not turned off either.
I'd rather just be human on this one.

 

[Truth in love]

The question is when did this proposed god being ever state that anything is a sin? All you've got is an old book filled with what fallible humans beings have claimed this god being considers to be sinful. Until this god being makes some sort of an effort to clarify its position, it's silly to consider anything to be a sin.

Cleary you missed the core concepts of the Bible. Also the point of the thread.

 

[We Never Know]

It means when youre trans, it's pretty common to have sex as your birth sex, and later as your transitioned to sex.
A FtM, for example, having sex with a man as a woman we would say that's straight but sex as a man with a man we'd call that gay. But going from she to he, is it really that important to figure out and have a label for?

I'm not really sure how to describe it, especially as this isn't the eros room. But, I can say, with women it was more just trying to make myself normal and living in denial, and though I'm not really into women I'm not turned off either.
I'd rather just be human on this one.

"It means when youre trans, it's pretty common to have sex as your birth sex, and later as your transitioned to sex.
A FtM, for example, having sex with a man as a woman we would say that's straight but sex as a man with a man we'd call that gay. But going from she to he, is it really that important to figure out and have a label for?"

That makes no sense to me. If you have the same sexual organs as a man and have sex with a man, to me thats gay sex.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There is a major difference between best buddies and having sex. I find nothing in the Bible condemning good friends.

Would you ever describe your male best friend in such a way?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That makes no sense to me. If you have the same sexual organs as a man and have sex with a man, to me thats gay sex.

It depends. In the Hunter S Thompson novel Hell's Angels he mentions an Angel getting oral sex, from a man, while he's sitting at a bar and he said he's not gay because he's just getting his dick sucked and not doing the sucking.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It means when youre trans, it's pretty common to have sex as your birth sex, and later as your transitioned to sex.

I never had sex as a "woman", personally. Only after I transitioned. I don't think I could've stomached having sex and being viewed as a woman. Even trying to have cybersex as that failed pretty badly and was extremely uncomfortable in a gross way.

 

[Truth in love]

What do you mean when you say other gospel?

Gal 1:
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


Now change is not all bad, Moses brought about changes, Christ did and so did Peter. I’m good with Gods servants doing this, but the arguments I see are not this. It’s we decided God did not know what He was talking about. That’s a very anti Biblical would view

 

[We Never Know]

It depends. In the Hunter S Thompson novel Hell's Angels he mentions an Angel getting oral sex, from a man, while he's sitting at a bar and he said he's not gay because he's just getting his dick sucked and not doing the sucking.

And in J.K. Rowling novel, Harry was a sorcerer. A book doesn't make it true.
If it did,, well then there is the bible

 

[F1fan]

Cleary you missed the core concepts of the Bible. Also the point of the thread.

Yet what authority does the Bible have over free individuals who do not assign significance to the Bible, at least not in the way you prefer to do?

 

[Brian2]

Your question is laden with the assumption that God ever thought this was a sin as opposed to the fallible mortals that assumed for themselves the right to speak on God's behalf.

In my opinion

Probably the question of whether the Bible is a source of morality is not in the scope of the question, even though it is a legitimate question. I guess a legitimate answer would be that those who believe the Bible see it as a source of moral guidance and so it is for that for them.

 

[Truth in love]

Would you ever describe your male best friend in such a way?

Well it’s hard to say what the original writing were. If I recall correctly the documents went through many copies and several translations.

I’ve had times when I was very close to a roommate, we spent tons of time together and frankly some observing us might have thought we were gay. We were very tight as close as I’ve be to anyone not in my family. Military vets often get very close to their buddies.

 

[We Never Know]

Well it’s hard to say what the original writing were. If I recall correctly the documents went through many copies and several translations.

I’ve had times when I was very close to a roommate, we spent tons of time together and frankly some observing us might have thought we were gay. We were very tight as close as I’ve be to anyone not in my family. Military vets often get very close to their buddies.

Same sexes can deeply love each other and not in a sexual way.
-Father/son
-Mother/daughter
-Through trama together
-Through living life as best pals
-Etc

 

[Brian2]

Yet what authority does the Bible have over free individuals who do not assign significance to the Bible, at least not in the way you prefer to do?

So the thread is not really talking to you and maybe should be in the Christian or Abrahamic DIR or something.

 

[We Never Know]

Yet what authority does the Bible have over free individuals who do not assign significance to the Bible, at least not in the way you prefer to do?

None. Same what you think about religion has no bearing on those that follow religion. But yet somehow in your head you believe what you think out trumps what they think.

But always remember you are unique.... Just like everyone else

 

[firedragon]

I have no great interest in arguing the Bible from a Christian perspective because I'm not one and I don't really care about its moral values. However since it's here, and its such a common and frightfully low effort argument, a couple things:

Levitical law doesn't apply to Christians today, the abomination of shellfish is no more or less relevent. Also there are plenty of both Christians and Jewish scholars who implore people to look at those verses with the rest of the chapter for context, since it is often talking about temple prostitution and pedastry, not everyday relationships. Things that actually contrasted against other local religious customs and practices.

Similarly 'strange flesh' isn't male flesh, and certainly not a consensual relationship between two same sexed individuals. But a mob trying to rape two angels. Comparing that to a consensual loving homosexual relationship is monstrous.

Edit: if you actually want reasons and perspective from LGBT friendly Christians there are resources like this to be had leviticus Archives | Bible and Homosexuality
Homosexuality: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness Part II "What The Bible Does and Does Not Say..." | Religious Institute

Did the New Testament say anywhere explicitly that homosexuality is allowed? I am not advocating anything but just asking for a clarification. As far as I know or what I have read in the Bible, homosexuality is put in the category of major sin. Paul being the writer who attempts to abolish the laws of the Tanakh puts it as a sin. Directly. Could you explain that?

 

[blü 2]

I see people claiming to be Christian who want homosexual behavior to not be a sin
My Bible says:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind … it is abomination, Lev. 18:22 (20:13).
There shall be no … sodomite of the sons of Israel, Deut. 23:17.
declare their sin as Sodom, Isa. 3:9
men … burned in their lust one toward another, Rom. 1:27.
nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1 Cor. 6:9.
them that defile themselves with mankind, 1 Tim. 1:10.
as Sodom and Gomorrha … going after strange flesh, Jude 1:7.

Now I’m not calling for violence or mistreatment of anyone, but I am challenging those preaching this “other gospel” When did God change His mind on this being a sin?

You want Bronze Age justice from the Tanakh? Try Exodus 22:18.

Then stop sitting on your hands while all those witches out there are suffered to live!

To arms, Truth in love, to arms! Your God calls you to kill and kill and kill till there are no more witches!

 

[InChrist]

I see people claiming to be Christian who want homosexual behavior to not be a sin
My Bible says:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind … it is abomination, Lev. 18:22 (20:13).
There shall be no … sodomite of the sons of Israel, Deut. 23:17.
declare their sin as Sodom, Isa. 3:9
men … burned in their lust one toward another, Rom. 1:27.
nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1 Cor. 6:9.
them that defile themselves with mankind, 1 Tim. 1:10.
as Sodom and Gomorrha … going after strange flesh, Jude 1:7.

Now I’m not calling for violence or mistreatment of anyone, but I am challenging those preaching this “other gospel” When did God change His mind on this being a sin?

I think it goes well beyond the sin of homosexuality, illegitimate sex outside of God’s design is rampant in the culture. On one hand, people that deny or ignore God and His instructions on this subject in the biblical scriptures can’t be expected to have any desire to pay attention to the Creator’s wisdom. The negative drawback is that once a civilization gets to a certain point in deviating from God’s design and order, it usually brings difficult consequences and/or is on the brink of collapse.
The following article is somewhat pertinent...

Lovers Of Pleasure More Than Lovers Of God: Experts Warn STDs In The United States Are 'Out Of Control' - Harbingers Daily

 

[F1fan]

So the thread is not really talking to you and maybe should be in the Christian or Abrahamic DIR or something.

The opening post assumes an actual God exists, and that it has an authority through the Bible that is something we mortals must obey. So it is fair to ask where this authority is in reality, yes?

If the opening post was only a person confused in their own beliefs and moral attitudes, then my question would be needed.

 

[F1fan]

None. Same what you think about religion has no bearing on those that follow religion. But yet somehow in your head you believe what you think out trumps what they think.

As I just pointed out, the opening post is suggesting that the Bible has some sort of real authority over all mortals. Is sin limited only to believers? Can a gay atheist not sin?

I'm tolerant of anyone who wants to believe in ideas for their meaning, but as soon as a person assumes their personal and/or collective beliefs have authority over free individuals who reject those ideas, then a line has been crossed.