Nothing lasts forever in this life

[Truthseeker]

The the electro-chemical activity in the brain is observed in all species - including the ones you claim don't have a soul. Therefore, by your own argument, it cannot be caused by the soul.

I don't agree with @Trailblazer. Without the soul the electro-chemical activity would not create consciousness. Without the soul we would not make free-will decisions in my view. Free-will is the intersection between the soul and the material brain in my view.

Animals do have consciousness though they don't have a soul, but they do have an animal spirit. The soul, you see reflects all of the attributes of God, whereas the animal does not. That is why they have no free-will.

Believe it or not even in the vegeatable kingdom there seems to be a rudimentary consciousness. Hard to say:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/staghorn-fern-colonies-first-plants-share-work-ants

High in the forest canopy, a mass of strange ferns grips a tree trunk, looking like a giant tangle of floppy, viridescent antlers. Below these fork-leaved fronds and closer into the core of the lush knot are brown, disk-shaped plants. These, too, are ferns of the very same species.

The ferns — and possibly similar plants — may form a type of complex, interdependent society previously considered limited to animals like ants and termites, researchers report online May 14 in Ecology.

 

[Truthseeker]

Yes, like when Moses had his cane turn into a snake, and it ate Pharoah's snake. Or later when he parted the seas. Or when Jesus walked on water and raised Lazarus from the dead, then later he himself came back to life and ascended into the clouds. Or wait, we don't believe those things really happened. Claims of religious miracles has made some people very skeptical. Should they trust the religious person or some religious story, or demand that tangible proof be provided?

It's not through the miracles that the Messengers of God showed something extraordinary. It's through their life, their teachings, the civilization they raise up to a higher level.

 

[Truthseeker]

Bahaullah told Bahais to look to Abdulbaha as the perfect exemplar of Bahai faith and teaching, because he has been "purposed by god". Yet you disagree with him. So you disagree with Bahaullah.
Which means that all your claims based on Bahaullah's infallibility can be dismissed.

*sits back, opens popcorn, waits the the flip-floppery to commence*

It doesn't help to make fun of her. I disagree with @Trailblazer on this, but I live and let live. There is no persuading her by putting her on the defensive. I have tried to persuade on matters like this, but she is entitled to her own opinion. All Baha'is are free to form their own opinion on the Writings.

 

[Truthseeker]

Second, mockery has long been a legitimate tool for criticising ideological beliefs (google "satire").

Personally I think satire is mean spirited, especially the way you do it.

 

[Truthseeker]

I have debated people from most faiths, on many forums over the years, but this is the first time I have run across several, dedicated Bahais in one place, and I have never encountered such universal lack of critical faculties or ability to grasp basic concepts. I wonder if Bahaism attracts a specific type, or there is something about Bahaism that affects those who follow it.
Either way, it's quite worrying.

You are not worried at all. You just want to make us look bad. But guess what, to me you look bad. We are entitled to our opinion, and you just want to win and make mockery and make us look bad. But there are very few still in this thread that you demonstrated that to. You also forget that we do not represent all Baha'is. You may have also noticed that I expressed different opinions from @Trailblazer. We are not a monolithic belief system. We believe in unity in diversity. There are Writings we believe in but we each have own interpretation of them.

 

[KWED]

It is difference in debating to learn and debating to try to make people feel as a failour.

You still don't seem to understand what "debating" is.
It is an adversarial process where one side tries to prove their position while refuting the others'.
You seem to think that "debate" requires me to just accept the claims other people make.
Ironically, the ones here who seem determined not to "learn" are the Bahais. Even simple concepts like evidence, circular logic - and "debate" are things they seem totally incapable of coming to terms with.

 

[KWED]

Very true

So, where have any Bahais on here "met halfway" on the issue of Bahaullah simply being an ordinary person who was dishonest or delusional? After all, those are both more rational explanations than him actually being the messenger of a god who you can't even show exists.

What's that?
Oh, it's only sceptics who have to "meet halfway"?
Seems reasonable.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You still don't seem to understand what "debating" is.
It is an adversarial process where one side tries to prove their position while refuting the others'.
You seem to think that "debate" requires me to just accept the claims other people make.
Ironically, the ones here who seem determined not to "learn" are the Bahais. Even simple concepts like evidence, circular logic - and "debate" are things they seem totally incapable of coming to terms with.

My stands on this is.
No need to "debunk" religions people and their beliefs. Each person belief is personal to them.

Why keep at it so much that believers thinking of leaving RF due to feeling bullied by people like yourself?

 

[Spirit of Light]

So, where have any Bahais on here "met halfway" on the issue of Bahaullah simply being an ordinary person who was dishonest or delusional? After all, those are both more rational explanations than him actually being the messenger of a god who you can't even show exists.

What's that?
Oh, it's only sceptics who have to "meet halfway"?
Seems reasonable.

Why should a Baha'i meet half way when their personal belief is that Baha'u'llah is more than a ordenary man?
Why should the believer walk away from their beliefs to satisfy your need of winning each discussion so you get the glory of having pulled yet an other believer away from God???

Can you for once answer instead og giving a new question? Huh????

 

[KWED]

Agreed upon.

However, Almighty God has spiritual attributes that we can recognise in ourselves.
eg. 99 names

..yet these attributes are not identical as in imperfect humans .. and spite isn't one of them.

So god is nothing like a person, but we can describe him with 99 personal, human attributes that we can recognise in ourselves, but those attributes are not like ours, so the descriptions are meaningless?

Makes perfect sense.

 

[KWED]

My stands on this is.
No need to "debunk" religions people and their beliefs. Each person belief is personal to them.

Yeah, you still don't get the point of "debate".
(See my earlier points about the inability to grasp simple concepts )

Why keep at it so much that believers thinking of leaving RF due to feeling bullied by people like yourself?

If religionists leave a religious debate forum because sceptics question and challenge their beliefs, then so be it. Not my problem.

Also ironic that after many centuries of happily not just bullying, but oppressing, persecuting and killing disbelievers, they now whinge about "bullying" when sceptics point out the problems with their belief on Internet forums.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yeah, you still don't get the point of "debate".
(See my earlier points about the inability to grasp simple concepts )

If religionists leave a religious debate forum because sceptics question and challenge their beliefs, then so be it. Not my problem.

Also ironic that after many centuries of happily not just bullying, but oppressing, persecuting and killing disbelievers, they now whinge about "bullying" when sceptics point out the problems with their belief on Internet forums.

You see the teaching as a problem, because you are not a believer. That is not a reason good enough to behave the way you do.

 

[KWED]

..not far off dead .. if the heart isn't pumping, and the lungs aren't functioning, one loses consciousness.

Yes, and if action isn't soon taken (like resuscitation), death will follow. But until you are dead, you are not dead. That's pretty simple.

..you might call it "dreaming", but I for one do not.

You misunderstand. The "visions" we have when suffering lack of oxygen, electro-chemical imbalance in the brain, trauma, etc are not dissimilar to dreaming, but no one claims that your dreams actually happened.

 

[KWED]

You see the teaching as a problem, because you are not a believer. That is not a reason good enough to behave the way you do.

Serious question.
What do you think a sceptic should be allowed to do on a religious debate forum when a religionist posts something that they disagree with or can show is wrong?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Serious question.
What do you think a sceptic should be allowed to do on a religious debate forum when a religionist posts something that they disagree with or can show is wrong?

Ask why do you believe so or so, and could you show me the scriptures speaking about it.
If it is not in the scriptures, how did you get to that understanding?

"Then actually take the believers answer as an answer" even you might not agree, the believer has given you their answers. Their personal understanding of the teaching.

 

[KWED]

Why should a Baha'i meet half way

Surely you can't be serious?
You just implied that people on here should meet halfway, that it's a fault with sceptics if they don't (I'm sure you will claim you didn't, thus again illustrating the problem I have been highlighting).

when their personal belief is that Baha'u'llah is more than a ordenary man?

So you confirm that it is only sceptics who are required to meet halfway or be prepared to "learn". Bahai's don't need to because they know they are right.
You couldn't make this up!

Why should the believer walk away from their beliefs to satisfy your need of winning each discussion so you get the glory of having pulled yet an other believer away from God???

I didn't claim that they should . I was pointing out the irony in you demanding sceptics to do it while not requiring the same from Bahais.

Can you for once answer instead og giving a new question? Huh????

Which of your questions did I not answer?

 

[KWED]

Ask why do you believe so or so, and could you show me the scriptures speaking about it.
If it is not in the scriptures, how did you get to that understanding?

"Then actually take the believers answer as an answer" even you might not agree, the believer has given you their answers. Their personal understanding of the teaching.

So basically, you don't want debate. You just want an echo-chamber.
There are plenty of those around. Feel free to join one.
However, if you stay on here you will be asked to support and justify your claims, and any responses you give will also be critically analysed - as I expect mine to be.

Also note the irony of you not simply accepting my position at first response. You keep "bullying" me about the same issues, criticising me personally rather than my arguments. Physician heal thyself!

 

[Spirit of Light]

Surely you can't be serious?
You just implied that people on here should meet halfway, that it's a fault with sceptics if they don't (I'm sure you will claim you didn't, thus again illustrating the problem I have been highlighting).

So you confirm that it is only sceptics who are required to meet halfway or be prepared to "learn". Bahai's don't need to because they know they are right.
You couldn't make this up!

I didn't claim that they should . I was pointing out the irony in you demanding sceptics to do it while not requiring the same from Bahais.

Which of your questions did I not answer?

Why should any believervin religion meet half way with a non-believer when that would mean walking away from their personal belief just to "make atheists happy" ?
You are allowed to be sceptical or a non-believer, of course you are. Nobody tries to take it awsy from you.

As a Baha'i i have no issue with your lack of belief in whatvi believe in. Where I see a huge different is in your aggressiv approach to questioning believers, and not listening to what they say.

I have no problem admitting that I looking for mutually respect from believers and non-believers in a discussion or debate. It goes both ways.

The problem i find in discussion with certain atheists is their way of not even trying to listen to what believers actually saying.

 

[KWED]

My inbox is always open, so feel free to send me a PM anytime. The Paranormal Activities forum is where you will find my threads, along with my other posts in paranormal related threads posted by other members. And my answer is yes to your last questions. It's my belief that some human spirits refuse to cross over because they have unfinished business, or sometimes a human spirit doesn't realize that they are dead. In the paranormal field, it is commonly believed that when someone passes away abruptly (such as in a car accident or from a sudden heart attack), they are unaware that they have died. Based on my experience as a psychic medium and as a paranormal investigator, this belief was validated by some of the spirits I've communicated with and by EVPs I've heard on a Spirit Box or captured on an EVP recorder by other paranormal investigators. I have spoken to spirits who didn't know that they had died.

For example, I spoke with one spirit who asked me if she was dead. I told her yes, and then I asked her if she knew how she died, and she told me the last thing she remembered was feeling a sharp pain in her chest and that she couldn't breath. She was upset and sad that she died so suddenly. She was one of the spirits that I encouraged to cross over into the light. And while investigating a haunted location with other paranormal investigators, we heard a spirit speak through a Spirit Box and ask, "Am I dead?" and this spirit also said, "I'm confused!" We also heard a spirit fretfully say, "The children aren't in heaven yet!" and another asked, "Where is Jesus?"

I've been interacting and communicating with spirits for several years now, and I can assure you that it's not always easy to interact and communicate with a spirit, especially when several of them are trying to communicate with me at once and they keep talking over each other. It requires a lot of patience to interact and communicate with spirits because they can be distressed, angry, or confused. I won't keep going on and on, so I would like you to know that I go into further detail about my personal views on earthbound souls in this thread here. If you have any questions to ask me, please feel free to send me a message. As I said, my inbox is always open.

Have your discoveries and abilities been independently verified?

 

[KWED]

Yow! The tale just keeps growing with the telling.

Yet another claim by @Trailblazer of what the afterlife will be like, despite claiming that they know nothing about what the afterlife will be like.