Nothing lasts forever in this life

[Trailblazer]

Convenience?

There is nothing convenient about it, it is just logical.
It is inconvenient for you because you want something that is not procurable.

 

[Trailblazer]

So how do you know they exist?
(Please don't say "because Bahaullah said so")

Because the Bible tells me so.

 

[Trailblazer]

What else can we say?

We can say because the Bible tells us so. After all, what we believe in that has no evidence in physical world existed before Baha'u'llah showed up on the scene.

 

[Trailblazer]

you made several claims about what you believe the afterlife will be like

Nope, I never made any such claims.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not even for believers, as they will never be aware of their folly.

No, we will not be aware of our folly, we will be aware that we continue to exist.

 

[Trailblazer]

it makes three separate claims about what it is like

No, it makes three separate claims about what it is not like.
Those claims say nothing about what it is like.

 

[Trailblazer]

How long before you deny claiming to know this I wonder? Please share the facts that underpin this knowledge, as of course facts must do for all knowledge.

There are no facts about the functions of the soul, only beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course, you don't believe in the unseen .. but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist .. you just can't "see" it.

Obviously that's true, but you will never get the atheists to see why that is logical.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Or unless you believe there is life after death according to non-scriptural accounts.

Private Dowding
The Afterlife Revealed

I would like to respond even though your comment wasn't intended for me because what you said is true of me. I know that there is an afterlife, but I do not believe what the Bible says will happen in the afterlife will actually happen. Based on my experiences with the spirit world, I believe that the afterlife is an everlasting existence where human spirits can come and go as they please, rather than that the spirit world is a static place that is limited to only heaven and hell. In fact, I do not believe in the concept of heaven or hell.

 

[Trailblazer]

I would like to respond even though your comment wasn't intended for me because what you said is true of me. I know that there is an afterlife, but I do not believe what the Bible says will happen in the afterlife will actually happen. Based on my experiences with the spirit world, I believe that the afterlife is an everlasting existence where human spirits can come and go as they please, rather than that the spirit world is a static place that is limited to only heaven and hell. In fact, I do not believe in the concept of heaven or hell.

I believe that same and what is in The Afterlife Revealed is consistent with Baha'i beliefs.

 

[samtonga43]

So you accept that the "spiritual world" can't be shown, demonstrated, tested, etc. It is basically the same as "nothing" in practical terms.
Yet you believe it exists with an unwavering certainty because a Persian man in the 19th century said it exists. A man who speaks almost entirely in meaningless platitudes which don't stand up to close scrutiny.
And you see nothing wrong with that?
Fair enough.

Platitudes for today, but communicated via 17th Century English...

 

[samtonga43]

Consciousness IS a product of the brain, as long as we have a brain, but when we die and no longer have a brain, consciousness continues, since the soul is responsible for consciousness.

The evidence of the soul are its 'effects' upon the mind and body, but it cannot be proven that the soul is responsible for these effects since the soul is a mystery of God.

How can one person produce so much circular reasoning?

 

[Truthseeker]

My messenger is the true messenger, all of yours are fake, is not a very compelling argument.

We consider a lot of Messengers genuine.

 

[KWED]

That view is not based on science but but we believe in Baha'u''llah because of evidence in part.

But there is no evidence that there is even a god, never mind that someone was that god's messenger.
This is a basic problem that every Bahai I have spoken to seems to struggle with. You can't claim that someone was the messenger of a god without first proving that the god exists. Otherwise it is just an unsupported claim. It is irrelevant how convincing you find their words.

Imagine I turned up at Buckingham Palace claiming to be the King of Fantasia. That claim would not be enough to gain entry to Charlie's coronation. Even if I arrived in a gold carriage, with robes, a crown and an entourage of footmen and soldiers, would that prove that I was the king of where I claimed? What about if I told them the history of my country in great detail? Would that be proof that Fantasia exists? Maybe there were hundreds of people outside the gates waving Fantasia flags and cheering? Surely that would be enough? Fantasia must exist, yes?

 

[Truthseeker]

But there is no evidence that there is even a god, never mind that someone was that god's messenger.
This is a basic problem that every Bahai I have spoken to seems to struggle with.

I don't struggle with that, but apparently you do.

 

[KWED]

There is no need to bring "brains" into it.

What?! Of course there is! That is the whole crux of the argument. Is our "soul" just a product of the brain or is it magically independent of our physical body.

If I looked at a brain, I would only see a brain.

Depends how you look. If you use medical technology, you can see thoughts and emotions.

It doesn't matter HOW the soul is "generated", it is still a soul.

It absolutely does matter! If the "soul"/consciousness/personality/whatever you want to call it is just a product of electro-chemical activity in the brain and vanishes when the brain does, then there is no "afterlife", and the two main religions collapse.

Can it exist independently from a brain? Sure

Whoah there! You can't just reassert your initial assertion with no further explanation.
There is zero evidence that consciousness can exist without the physical brain.

but it can't necessarily be realised without it.

So the "soul" is a product of the physical brain then?
(Remember what I said about examining your posts for flaws before posting them? )

eg. Software / Hardware analogy

That analogy disproves a soul independent of the body.
Or have you managed to run software without any hardware.

 

[KWED]

Let's call that number 2.

Don't forget
3. There will be no sunrise.
and
4. There will be no sunset.

Two more very specific claims about what the afterlife is like.

 

[KWED]

Now when did this deity first insert this soul? Sahelanthropus or Ardipithecus, or are we talking much later like Australopithecus or Paranthropus? What about Neanderthals? Now humans mated with Neanderthals so did they have souls, what about the resulting offspring?

Another thorny question that religionists seem incapable of answering - apart from the ones who deny evolution and claim the human race started by magic with Adam & Eve.

 

[KWED]

All creatures have souls.

Do they get judged by Allah on their actions as well? Is there a dog jannah and jahannam? And a cat one? Or are all saved souls living in the same afterlife?

All creatures have their nature, and worship God .. except for mankind and "ghosts" [ jinn, who are made of smokeless fire ]

Oh yes, that old chestnut - that all animals worship Allah!
BTW, "smokeless fire" may have seemed quite extraordinary in 7th century Arabia, but it is extremely common and nothing remarkable today. Just an interesting aside that further shows the cultural origins of the Quran.

Of course, you don't believe in the unseen .. but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist .. you just can't "see" it.

I accept the existence of many things I can't "see".
I don't accept that extraordinary, unnatural things exist simply because of ancient superstition and myth. I need something a little more substantial.

If something cannot be detected by any means, has no effect on any measurable thing, and is not required for any known process to work - how is it any different to "nothing", and why should I believe it exists?

 

[KWED]

It's amazing how often people try to infer meaning into meaningless platitudes, it's pretty funny for a while, but does also get very tedious. Unless Monty Python are doing it of course.