Now Belgium bans burqa in public places

[blackout]

A perpetual public masquarade would be much more charming... appealing... whimsical...

Halloween Perpetuem. 24/7/365.

Gotham.

Male/female/adult/child.

I'm in.

 

[Kathryn]

I haven't read through the hundreds of posts on this thread, but I'll put in my two cents' worth:

Banning the burqa is a futile, divisive, pathetic attempt at power-grabbing and grandstanding. It's counterproductive when it comes to dealing with Europe's very REAL problems with radical Islamist sects and terrorism.

It's akin to banning ski masks because some bank robbers use them, or banning those sort of weird Pentecostal hair styles because some women who wear them are treated as second class citizens by their religious sects (or at least some people ASSUME that they are being mistreated).

This sort of ridiculous legislation adds more anger and fuel to the fire of Muslim extremists by validating their cries of "Persecution!" by the Western societies that they've migrated to (the same ones that they refuse to adapt to - instead insisting on the adaptation of their values by their adopted countries - but that's another story).

That being said, there are definitely scenarios in which a burqa should be outlawed, or where a burqa should be required to be removed for identification or security purposes. Banks, airports, drivers license photos - any situation where ID must be verified.

Wow, this seems to be such common sense. Europe never ceases to amaze me when it comes to their approach to radical Islamist "issues."

 

[Panda]

I haven't read through the hundreds of posts on this thread, but I'll put in my two cents' worth:

Banning the burqa is a futile, divisive, pathetic attempt at power-grabbing and grandstanding. It's counterproductive when it comes to dealing with Europe's very REAL problems with radical Islamist sects and terrorism.

It's akin to banning ski masks because some bank robbers use them, or banning those sort of weird Pentecostal hair styles because some women who wear them are treated as second class citizens by their religious sects (or at least some people ASSUME that they are being mistreated).

This sort of ridiculous legislation adds more anger and fuel to the fire of Muslim extremists by validating their cries of "Persecution!" by the Western societies that they've migrated to (the same ones that they refuse to adapt to - instead insisting on the adaptation of their values by their adopted countries - but that's another story).

That being said, there are definitely scenarios in which a burqa should be outlawed, or where a burqa should be required to be removed for identification or security purposes. Banks, airports, drivers license photos - any situation where ID must be verified.

Wow, this seems to be such common sense. Europe never ceases to amaze me when it comes to their approach to radical Islamist "issues."

For once I completely agree with Kathryn, word for word.

 

[darkendless]

Wow, this seems to be such common sense. Europe never ceases to amaze me when it comes to their approach to radical Islamist "issues."

As opposed to us down here pushing everything under the carpet and letting our own cultural values take a back seat to their demands.

At least Europe isn't too weak to stamp down some authority.

 

[Panda]

Actually I would also add that anywhere that employs a specific dress code as well should be able to make people remove it.

 

[Kathryn]

As opposed to us down here pushing everything under the carpet and letting our own cultural values take a back seat to their demands.

At least Europe isn't too weak to stamp down some authority.

Europe's "stamp of authority" when it comes to radical Islam is too little, too late, and an example of futility and inconsistency.

They've been invaded by the Moors once again, and nobody even looked up from their espresso. Except of course, those poor sods on that train in Spain who had their espresso blown out of their hands.

 

[doppelganger]

The burqa is out of place in a secular environment of the European context. European nations have grew out of the eras of puritanism and religious atmosphere. the idea of having people who have no concept of the historical episodes that brought the new atmosphere to Europe and bring misogynistic ultra religious phenomena with them forces Europeans to once again confront religious strife that they drastically reformed in their own nations through the last centuries.

Though really the lesson Europe learned from their centuries of wars of religion was the need for religious tolerance and the clear separation of religious authority and "secular" governmental authority where cultures have mixed. This law is contrary to religious tolerance.

From their own lessons, it's fair for Europeans to adamantly oppose any aspect of religious law being enacted as part of their government for religious rather than policy reasons. But that which goes on between consenting adults is noboby's business but their own unless one wants to reopen the violence that religious tolerance is meant to diffuse.

 

[blackout]

That being said, there are definitely scenarios in which a burqa should be outlawed, or where a burqa should be required to be removed for identification or security purposes. Banks, airports, drivers license photos - any situation where ID must be verified.

HAHAHA!!! And of course also while driving.
(don't forget safety)

*Cop pulls over car for failure to properly look left while changing lanes* (hahaha!):
"Excuse me ma'm, ID please. Oh and please uncover your head..."

Not to mention picture shots taken by camera thru a traffic light intersection.
*in court*
Traffic Court Judge: "Please don (ie. put on) your hood ma'm, so we can correctly identify you."

Or a hit and run. Can you picture the witness lineup?
(caused of course by the fact that the driver had a bag over his/her head.)
"ummmm I'm quite sure it was burqua number 6"

lolol... this is making me laugh so hard!

Yes. I do think the whole thing is absurd.

 

[kai]

Europe i am afraid is plagued with the two horsemen of the apocalypse Political correctness and multi culturalism.

I don't believe in a general ban, education is the key here for women to actually know why they are wearing it , i mean is it religious ,cultural or what. personally they can wear what they want as far as i am concerned as long as no one is compelling them to wear it.

 

[blackout]

Burquas could be a problem for females who want to act.

"But can i wear the costume, over the burqua?"

"Director": No.

Maybe an all women's burqua theatre?

They could just skip the art of facial expression altogether.
No one would know the difference.

It would really cut down on costuming costs as well.

It'd be like "use your imagination" theatre.
The "Theatre of the Absurd"....

 

[blackout]

Burqua dance?
Modeling?
Musician?... maybe.
Trombone would probably be a pretty bad idea.
(though it would be MIGHTY funny)
I imagine a violin could possibly be braced
in spite of the hood. maybe.
An all girl pop, metal or punk band?:areyoucra
Actually "Burqua Metal" might just work.
A whole new genre,
for a whole new generation.
The modern burqa girl!


Sales?
Front desk receptionist?
Cosmitology?

Woman walks into salon.
"I"d like my hair cut please"
Hair stylist
"Please take off your hood"
Woman
"I can't do that"

Solution? Buy your husband scissors and hope for the best.
He's the only one who will see the mess anyway.

 

[blackout]

Are female burqua wearing artists allowed to draw and paint women
who are not wearing burquas?

And what of conservative muslim men?
Do muslim artists just skip female form drawing alltogether?

What of Doctors?

and Dentists.
That's a tough one.

Maybe a big mouth opening is acceptable.

 

[blackout]

Factory work is out.
(safety, efficiency and theft)
Banks, out.
Retail... doubtful.
maybe the food store.
"Would you like that bagged?"

hahahahaha!!!!!

Oh I really need to stop now.....

But seriously....
WHAT CAN these women do?

it seems a more pertinent question
than what they can't do.

 

[Badran]

But seriously....
WHAT CAN these women do?

it seems a more pertinent question
than what they can't do.

They can do pretty much anything they want to do. You have to understand the mentality of them, to see it the way they do. I know many women who wear niqab (everything except the eyes), and they do whatever they want.

However, there are limitations, but not like going to the doctor and stuff like that. But yes, no women wearing this would actually want to be an actor, or a dancer. However, the other stuff you think propose problems, in reality it doesn't. Because there are females who occupy these jobs. As in a female dentist, a female hair stylist...

When a woman wears this, willingly, she's going an extra step and making things harder for herself, because she believes this makes her closer to god. So, the limitations that comes with that are accepted, but these limitations are not quite as you make them sound.

 

[blackout]

They can do pretty much anything they want to do. You have to understand the mentality of them, to see it the way they do. I know many women who wear niqab (everything except the eyes), and they do whatever they want.

However, there are limitations, but not like going to the doctor and stuff like that. But yes, no women wearing this would actually want to be an actor, or a dancer. However, the other stuff you think propose problems, in reality it doesn't. Because there are females who occupy these jobs. As in a female dentist, a female hair stylist...

When a woman wears this, willingly, she's going an extra step and making things harder for herself, because she believes this makes her closer to god. So, the limitations that comes with that are accepted, but these limitations are not quite as you make them sound.

You can't visit the dentist with a hood over your head.
And I would not go to a dentist with a hood over her head.

If I can't see your own teeth and hair...
you're sure as hell not gunna work on mine.:no:

And the arts are pretty much out.
As an artist, it breaks my heart.
As well driving.
Who the hell can live a full life in suburbia without driving?
The city. sure there's the bus and the subway.
Oh right,
bus, taxi, subway driver ... all out.

Police woman, fire woman, EMT. out.
Not to mention lifeguard.
How would you give mouth to mouth recussitation?

 

[blackout]

Actually I would also add that anywhere that employs a specific dress code as well should be able to make people remove it.

And the dress code in my place of business would be,
1.basic human form fitting attire only.
Ie... actual clothing.
ie. you may not wear a body bag to work.
2.no covering your face.
Ie. no bags over your head.
3. don't come in nude.
(unless it's been approved in advance)

 

[Badran]

You can't visit the dentist with a hood over your head.

She can visit a female dentist.

And I would not go to a dentist with a hood over her head.

If I can't see your own teeth and hair...
you're sure as hell not gunna work on mine.:no:

Well those are your own standards.

And the arts are pretty much out.
As an artist, it breaks my heart.

Not necessarily, if she wanted to paint for example, she can still do.

As well driving.

Why is that? I'm not sure wether you're serious or not, because they do drive.

bus, taxi, subway driver ... all out.

Why?

Police woman, fire woman, EMT. out.

If she can't be those, like i said there are limitations and they do accept it, they are going for extra and they are aware of that. Not to mention that these jobs aren't all that popular with women in the societies in which a lot of women wear niqab or burqa.

Not to mention lifeguard.
How would you give mouth to mouth recussitation?

I'm sure if she's willing to cover her entire body in black, she'll survive without being a life guard.

 

[.lava]

And the dress code in my place of business would be,
1.basic human form fitting attire only.
Ie... actual clothing.
ie. you may not wear a body bag to work.
2.no covering your face.
Ie. no bags over your head.
3. don't come in nude.
(unless it's been approved in advance)

excuse me but what do you mean by "no bags over your head"? is this some kind of English expression that i don't know or are you spending energy on trying to insult modest wearing Muslim women?

.

 

[blackout]

She can visit a female dentist.
And what of bi-sexual women like mySelf?
What if her dentist is a lesbian or a bisexual?
and she does not know it?
She may become a source of temptaion to the dentist.
(we ARE allowed to express our sexuality in the western world you know)



Well those are your own standards.
Yes those are WESTERN standards.
and I'm quite sure I do not stand alone in them



Not necessarily, if she wanted to paint for example, she can still do.
Fruit bowls maybe.
And scenes that do not define human form and (facial) expression.
Sounds fun.
*yawns*
That certainly leaves out fine arts.

But still life oil paintings are always a nice hobby I guess.
(when there is nothing else)



Why is that? I'm not sure wether you're serious or not, because they do drive.

wow.
I am TOTALLY serious.
HOW THE HELL CAN YOU SEE PROPERLY WITH A BAG OVER YOUR HEAD.

I personally would be VERY upset to find that it was legal
for people to drive on MY STREETS with bags on their heads.
I would fight it. I hope other sane people would as well.


Why?


If she can't be those, like i said there are limitations and they do accept it, they are going for extra and they are aware of that. Not to mention that these jobs aren't all that popular with women in the societies in which a lot of women wear niqab or burqa.

Yes. fine, but this is NOT your society.
I personally do not want your society to invade mine.
I say no special exceptions.
You wanna live here?

to that I ask WHY?


I'm sure if she's willing to cover her entire body in black, she'll survive without being a life guard.

whatever.

I'm glad there are competent lifeguards out there for my kids.

When yours is drowning,
don't complain when a woman in swimgear saves his life.

 

[blackout]

excuse me but what do you mean by "no bags over your head"? is this some kind of English expression that i don't know or are you spending energy on trying to insult modest wearing Muslim women?

.

Lava,

I am simply describing what I see.
period.

Sorry if my perception of "bag" offends you.
(if I had intended to offend,
I could have done much better than "bag")

To live in a western society,
you'll have to be less sensitive to the perceptions of westerners.

For me... words/labels/names of things hold no specific sacred value.

I call it like I see it.

That's another thing about our culture.
We generally do not hold things sacred.
Do not expect to be treated "special"
or as some "exception"
in this regard.