I haven't read through the hundreds of posts on this thread, but I'll put in my two cents' worth:
Banning the burqa is a futile, divisive, pathetic attempt at power-grabbing and grandstanding. It's counterproductive when it comes to dealing with Europe's very REAL problems with radical Islamist sects and terrorism.
It's akin to banning ski masks because some bank robbers use them, or banning those sort of weird Pentecostal hair styles because some women who wear them are treated as second class citizens by their religious sects (or at least some people ASSUME that they are being mistreated).
This sort of ridiculous legislation adds more anger and fuel to the fire of Muslim extremists by validating their cries of "Persecution!" by the Western societies that they've migrated to (the same ones that they refuse to adapt to - instead insisting on the adaptation of their values by their adopted countries - but that's another story).
That being said, there are definitely scenarios in which a burqa should be outlawed, or where a burqa should be required to be removed for identification or security purposes. Banks, airports, drivers license photos - any situation where ID must be verified.
Wow, this seems to be such common sense. Europe never ceases to amaze me when it comes to their approach to radical Islamist "issues."
COMPLETELY agree. how is banning the burqa ANY LESS OPPRESSIVE of women's rights?
They can do pretty much anything they want to do. You have to understand the mentality of them, to see it the way they do. I know many women who wear niqab (everything except the eyes), and they do whatever they want.
However, there are limitations, but not like going to the doctor and stuff like that. But yes, no women wearing this would actually want to be an actor, or a dancer. However, the other stuff you think propose problems, in reality it doesn't. Because there are females who occupy these jobs. As in a female dentist, a female hair stylist...
When a woman wears this, willingly, she's going an extra step and making things harder for herself, because she believes this makes her closer to god. So, the limitations that comes with that are accepted, but these limitations are not quite as you make them sound.
yes, i agree with all of this too. women who CHOOSE to wear the burqa are only making THEIR OWN lives more difficult. who are we to tell them to do otherwise? as long as no one makes ME wear it, who cares?
whatever.
I'm glad there are competent lifeguards out there for my kids.
i fail to see what this has to do with...anything.
When yours is drowning,
don't complain when a woman in swimgear saves his life.
ok, i won't complain.
again, this has what to do with the burqa? i know a lot of people who can't swim. what's your point?
Lava,
I am simply describing what I see.
period.
Sorry if my perception of "bag" offends you.
(if I had intended to offend,
I could have done much better than "bag")
To live in a western society,
you'll have to be less sensitive to the perceptions of westerners.
For me... words/labels/names of things hold no specific sacred value.
I call it like I see it.
That's another thing about our culture.
We generally do not hold things sacred.
Do not expect to be treated "special"
or as some "exception"
in this regard.
i had to lol a bit at "bag" myself.
i agree; women who choose to wear a burqa should not require or request special treatment.
Now you're just trying to make up excuses that supposedly would "limit" them, she can find a straight female dentist. There is plenty of those.
Let me make something clear, any woman should be allowed to wear anything she wants, Is that clear? Wether niqab or a bikini. Any kind of law that limits them in this aspect, is disgusting. I hope this clears any misconceptions.
Also, its worth mentioning that i actually find niqab and burqa to be unnecessary, and i don't think women should wear them. However, that doesn't mean we should force anything on anyone.
100% agree. oppression is oppression. why does every friggin society feel the need to dictate what women should and shouldn't wear?
why can't we trust women't ability to decide for themselves what to wear? if i don't like an outfit, i don't have to wear it. it's really quite simple.
doppelgänger;2111710 said:
Most modern westerners are conditioned to find abuse or oppressive treatment of women as disgusting. The women themselves will, of course, within the cultural context in which they are being abused, generally have no problem with it - largely because it's all they know and they have been conditioned with heavy feelings of guilt and shame as well as threat of physical violence and even death to submit to it.
One can have a "live and let live" attitude and not seek to force people to change their beliefs or practices, yet still express disgust at the idea of men being so afraid of their own sexuality that they need to put women in bags, or clip off parts of a woman's genitals.
And yes, it's their prerogative and it makes sense within the psychologically fractured world in which they operate. But I would be lying if I didn't say I find it all revolting and vile.
female circumcision IS NOT an Islamic practice. few Muslims DO it, but it's a cultural phenomenon that should be eradicated...but it's not Islamic. i do agree that there is a group of Muslims that are obsessed with sexual matters. those are the ones that try and force the burqa, tell women not to wear heels, make-up, cologne, and basically become invisible. i too find them revolting and vile.
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solve the puzzle then. i am a Muslim and i think face cover in a society is irritating, unacceptable and inhumane. what am i? a European?
if today women are wearing face cover in public, that's because they fear not to. in a soceity where women were oppressed and scared by men, i would probably wear whatever they wear to protect myself from being raped or physically attacked considering not covering your face would be taken by some men as an invitation. that's how i see why almost every women wear it in certain societies. though there are women who chose to wear it. i only saw one woman in my whole life. but that's not the issue if we're talking about societies where every women wear it. when something is done out of fear, we can't say it is acceptable, can we? IMO it is not even a norm
.
again, well stated and i agree. i will never understand why anyone should be forced to wear...or to remove...anything provided it doesn't endanger anyone. and i do feel there are times where a person NEEDS to be identified and those women who wear the burqa should be willing to remove the face portion to be identified. period.
my position is like Badran; i find it unnecessary and burdensome. but i'll be damned if i feel the need to forbid a woman who chooses to wear it to do so.
