Now Belgium bans burqa in public places

[Aquitaine]

Good grief ...

What? I'm thinking of it from a perspective of security. This isn't some Islamophobic rant, I personally don't think people should walk around in Public with their faces covered - regardless of religion. What's the point in having all this CCTV then.

I've said this before, I have absolutely no objection to the full-body dress, or the headscarf. The only thing I have issue with is the small section covering the face, that is all.

This doesn't just extend to Muslims only, for the record I am concerned and intimidated far more by the sight of these:

I trust you understand where I'm coming from here.

 

[Aquitaine]

The universal ban would affect all Muslims, because what was banned is something related to Islam.....

I can understand it if it was the Hijab being banned, but isn't the Niqab a Cultural dress though?

 

[Sahar]

I can understand it if it was the Hijab being banned, but isn't the Niqab a Cultural dress though?

Again, irrelevant question. If you, and other Muslims viewed it as cultural, still there are Muslims out there who believe it's Islamic.

 

[Aquitaine]

Again, irrelevant question. If you, and other Muslims viewed it as cultural, still there are Muslims out there who believe it's Islamic.

I guess this is where a lot of conflict comes into play with regards to "factions" of the same religion. Where people debate on what is "Islamic" and what isn't, for example.

If that's the case then can't anyone be a Muslim, or a "follower" rather, since this is a question for all religions and not just Islam. Also considering all scripture is based on Human interpretation, wouldn't it make organized, or "unified" religion pointless? Is stuff like this Burkha ban a result of religions becomming too uniform, to the point where "Experts" within a set religion try to argue what is universally forbidden and what is approved - or in this case, what is Islamic and what isnt?

However I think I'm going off topic here so I apologize.

 

[England my lionheart]

If you want to impose a monocultural society then absolutely it can't be called a free society. Freedom becomes significant when the society encounters what is different and diverse.

I think the problem isn't neccasarily just the Niqab,if that was allowed why not Ski masks or Klu Klux Clan hoods or any face covering that would allow someone to commit a crime and escape identification.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What? I'm thinking of it from a perspective of security. This isn't some Islamophobic rant, ...

No, it's a moronic one echoing Islamophobic sentiment. Where was the consternation surrounding niqab-adorned women entering banks prior to 9/11? When was the last bank robbery perpetrated by such a cleverly clad menace? The only thing you're securing is a reputation for sloppy arguments in defense of an indefensible attitude.

 

[Sahar]

I guess this is where a lot of conflict comes into play with regards to "factions" of the same religion. Where people debate on what is "Islamic" and what isn't, for example.

As long as most Muslims agree on the basics, I have no problem with disagreements and diverse opinions regarding the secondary issues. On the contrary, I view such disagreement as a good thing and no harm to have debates on these issues. This diversity is essential for flexibility, dynamicity and universality of Islam.

 

[Aquitaine]

No, it's a moronic one echoing Islamophobic sentiment. Where was the consternation surrounding niqab-adorned women entering banks prior to 9/11? When was the last bank robbery perpetrated by such a cleverly clad menace? The only thing you're securing is a reputation for sloppy arguments in defense of an indefensible attitude.

Pffft! Actually I'm using this topic as a way to help get across my position on identity-hiding clothing being worn in Public. You may notice I have said plenty of times in this thread that I couldn't care less about the Hijab or full-body dress being worn in Public. An Islamophobic opinion would, presumably, want the banning on the Hijab and gown entirely. This is not the case.

Unfortunately the only way people ever seem to talk about the issue of identity-hiding clothing in Public is via debates like these involving the Burka/Niqab. Yes it's not the most important issue in our society but meh, I can still have an opinion on it. It just seems to generate the neccessary amount of controversary etc, mostly 'cause it involves religion and the clash of cultural norms etc. Regardless, in this thread the core issue is still being raised, and to be quite frank I'm more concerned about the Chavs wondering 'round and intimadating the Public thinking they're ****** in balaclavas, than I am with Muslim Women covering there faces. Yes you're right, there arn't (atleast from what I know of) many cases involving people committing crimes in the Niqab, but at the end of the day this thread ultimately is about the aspect of identity in Public, along with it's relation to security - it just so happens to be that when religion is thrown into it, it becomes more controversial and thus, creates debates like these.

Throw the Islamophobe card all you want, but at the end of the day it is not deserved with me.

 

[Draka]

When I read the article it sounded more that they were attempting or supposedly attempting to "liberate women". It talks about making a stand about the enslavement of women. Now, if that's the real motive behind all this...it's bullocks. How hypocritical is it that it's perfectly fine for a woman to be photographed in a bikini or nude or do porno...but wearing a burqa is "enslavement"? One is "liberating" and one is not? Is that not for the woman to decide? If a Muslim woman feels that she is being a "good Muslim" by wearing a burqa, if she CHOOSES to wear such of her own volition, then why is that anyone else's concern? I highly doubt there is a rash of Muslim women in Belgium that are physically forced or verbally threatened into wearing the burqa. If there are, then the problem isn't really the burqa anyway...it's the men who are abusing them. The abuse would continue whether or not the burqa was an issue. The burqa is besides the point as there are Muslim women who CHOOSE to wear it. And what is more liberating than to make your own decisions and present yourself exactly as you wish?

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Let us understand a few things before we are able to discuss the topic in the right direction.

Belgium is a democratic country and in a democracy the citizens who has the final say and the lower and upper houses of the parliament act accordingly.

If one read the link: Burqa Ban: Belgium Stands United on Banning Islamic Veils - ABC News
It is clear that the citizens of the country have no problem with this ban and the topic states this:*Belgium Stands United on Burqa Ban*.

If citizens practicing different religions find this as impinging of their fundamental rights of any kind they are free to approach the courts for the same.

Another pointer or fact that like to point towards is a fact that my friend who just returned from informed is that as soon as the fight took off he found many young women just opened and discarded their burqa as if some chains and displayed their modern, western outfits looking smart and beautiful.

With these shifting realities of life, kindly do view your opinions but once again, kindly speak for your own self and not of a community or a segment of society which is incomplete.

Love & rgds

 

[Draka]

Friends,

Let us understand a few things before we are able to discuss the topic in the right direction.

Belgium is a democratic country and in a democracy the citizens who has the final say and the lower and upper houses of the parliament act accordingly.

If one read the link: Burqa Ban: Belgium Stands United on Banning Islamic Veils - ABC News
It is clear that the citizens of the country have no problem with this ban and the topic states this:*Belgium Stands United on Burqa Ban*.

If citizens practicing different religions find this as impinging of their fundamental rights of any kind they are free to approach the courts for the same.

Another pointer or fact that like to point towards is a fact that my friend who just returned from informed is that as soon as the fight took off he found many young women just opened and discarded their burqa as if some chains and displayed their modern, western outfits looking smart and beautiful.

With these shifting realities of life, kindly do view your opinions but once again, kindly speak for your own self and not of a community or a segment of society which is incomplete.

Love & rgds

Just because a majority of people might be ok with something or support something doesn't mean it is fair. That's called the tyranny of the majority you know. It tends to trample the minority for no other reason than that they are a minority and it can be done. Look at the issues of same sex marriage. That's an excellent example of just because a majority is ok with denying the rights of a minority it doesn't make it fair just because they are the "majority". The majority of the population in Belgium do not wear burqas. It doesn't affect them in the slightest. The ones it does affect are having their choices, their way of life, their religious ideals, affected for no other purpose than the "majority" don't think they should wear a particular item.

 

[xkatz]

Is there any reason (other than security) to ban the burqa?

 

[Sunstone]

Even in a democracy, the majority may not infringe on the rights of a minority. If there is a legitimate reason, such as security, for banning the burqa then so be it. But it should not be banned for anything less than a grave and serious reason.

 

[Caladan]

Is there any reason (other than security) to ban the burqa?

Security is not the issue that comes to my mind as primary. social concerns are much more relevant and outweigh the apeal to PC as far as im concerned.
Europe is a secularized society that now has to deal with religious issues of the archaic nature, after it has went through dramatic reforms in its religious landscape. I think its somewhat naive to expect Europeans to ignore all the historical episodes and lessons in their history and expect them to go back to square one and deal with archaic religious practices which go against the social atmosphere in Europe.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think its somewhat naive to expect Europeans to ignore all the historical episodes and lessons in their history and expect them to go back to square one and deal with archaic religious practices which go against the social atmosphere in Europe.

Yours is an interesting view of history. Square one in European history was marked by the persecution of religious minorities. I too am against going back to square one.

 

[Caladan]

Yours is an interesting view of history. Square one in European history was marked by the persecution of religious minorities. I too am against going back to square one.

Sorry Jay, but that is simply an appeal to emotion. right now I see Europeans being persecuted in their own nations, film directors being murdered, cartoonists, activists, and politicians forced into hiding, media cencorship. Europe has secularaized itself after its struggle with its own religious elements, and now Europeans are being forced to deal yet again with phenomena that were reformed through hard struggles and lessons. and the concerning thing is that the people who import these phenomena have no grasp on these lessons and episodes in Europe's past.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sorry Jay, but that is simply an appeal to emotion.

No, it is not. It is a rejection of an Islamophobic tyranny of the majority.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yours is an interesting view of history. Square one in European history was marked by the persecution of religious minorities. I too am against going back to square one.

In Britain religious minorities were indeed persecuted,either by the Catholic or Protestant religions with some Puritan thrown in for good measure,so i am definately against going back to square one.

 

[Classicus]

I'm Belgian and we don't really care that much abot this restriction as some seem to think. You don't see that many women with burqa's anyway here.
I've got quite some muslim friends (I'm from Brussels) and they don't really seem to care that much to be honest...

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

film directors being murdered, cartoonists, activists, and politicians forced into hiding, media cencorship.

I love when this kind of arguments start coming up. My friend, these are just the most primary results of Europe attacking other people in their homelands, not a result of coming back to religion.

When will I finally start hearing things like:"Well, Europe deserved it for all the suffer it made whole populations go through?" or at least something as sincere as ;"Not much cartoonists or film directors have been murdered as much as little kids have been murdered all over Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere"

May Allah azza wajjal give us patience, coz I start lacking it when I see such irrational comments.