Now Belgium bans burqa in public places

[Smoke]

Hijab is a level of dress ONLY it is not a religious symbol at all.

Well, good. Then barring the burqa doesn't interfere with anybody's religious freedom.

 

[Tanuki]

Exactly. If wearing a burka is a "personal" decision then it should be kept personal, in a personal place - like a house. Personally I find it offensive to see a woman dressed that way, because of reasons I've already stated. It's anti-modern and sexist and goes against the secular ideology that we have built up here in the West since the post-war years.

What does modernity have to do with anything? Just because something is modern doesn't make it correct.

 

[JMorris]

I've known lots of Muslims, and I don't have a problem with Muslims as members of Western society.

neither do i. but i do have problems with extremists as members of western society, and i dont see how the niqab or the burqa could be taken as anything other than extremism. and if their going to be here, id prefer for them to know that their unwelcome. that includes non-muslim extremists like klan as well.

 

[Smoke]

neither do i. but i do have problems with extremists as members of western society, and i dont see how the niqab or the burqa could be taken as anything other than extremism. and if their going to be here, id prefer for them to know that their unwelcome. that includes non-muslim extremists like klan as well.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Tanuki]

neither do i. but i do have problems with extremists as members of western society, and i dont see how the niqab or the burqa could be taken as anything other than extremism.

As long as the person wearing the burqa isn't doing you any harm then what is the problem? People should be allowed to dress how they like without government interference.

There is, I believe, far too much of an attitude with regard to Americans believing there way is the best way! (No offence intended) This attitude is now being seen in Europe, particularly continental Europe where there is a strong undercurrent of xenophobia and a fear of all things Islamic (not that the burqa is Islamic, although it is perceived to be).

 

[JMorris]

As long as the person wearing the burqa isn't doing you any harm then what is the problem? People should be allowed to dress how they like without government interference.

for the same reasons i believe swastika arm bands or klan uniforms should be banned in public. to make the extremists wanting to wear them feel unwelcomed.

There is, I believe, far too much of an attitude with regard to Americans believing there way is the best way! (No offence intended) This attitude is now being seen in Europe, particularly continental Europe where there is a strong undercurrent of xenophobia and a fear of all things Islamic (not that the burqa is Islamic, although it is perceived to be).

id say those fears & feelings are largely the fault of muslims. and if they want those feelings & fears to change, its their responsibility to change them.

 

[Smoke]

As long as the person wearing the burqa isn't doing you any harm then what is the problem? People should be allowed to dress how they like without government interference.

There is, I believe, far too much of an attitude with regard to Americans believing there way is the best way! (No offence intended)

Western society has had to fight tooth and nail against its own backward and repressive religion to achieve a modicum of secularity and freedom of thought. A secular government is best. A secular society is best. Our way is the best way. I'm not ashamed to say it. I think it needs to be said as often as possible. Every Westerner ought to say and believe that he's glad he's fortunate enough to live in a society that has freed itself to some extent from the horrors of medieval religion. What modern Belgian would prefer to live in the 12th century? What American would prefer to live in Sudan?

This attitude is now being seen in Europe, particularly continental Europe where there is a strong undercurrent of xenophobia and a fear of all things Islamic (not that the burqa is Islamic, although it is perceived to be).

Yes, I hate and fear this type of Islam. I hate and fear repressive forms of Christianity, too. I have good reason to. So does everybody who isn't prepared to conform in every respect to the dictates of religious tyrants.

But if the burqa isn't Islamic, and people are only opposed to the burqa, what makes that "fear of Islam"? You can't have it both ways.

 

[Tanuki]

Smoke, I'm sorry, but the US has a secular government in name only! If anyone was to come out in an American Presidential Election and say they were Atheist then they wouldn't have a hope in hell of being elected - the country is run by the Christian right! And I don't think anyone can deny that - remember Bush?

 

[Smoke]

Smoke, I'm sorry, but the US has a secular government in name only! If anyone was to come out in an American Presidential Election and say they were Atheist then they wouldn't have a hope in hell of being elected - the country is run by the Christian right! And I don't think anyone can deny that - remember Bush?

The Christian Right has altogether too much influence in America, I agree. Nevertheless, a secular government is the best way and the way we ought to strive for. Importing more religious extremists isn't going to help.

 

[JMorris]

as bad as the christian right are, id much rather live amongst them than the "muslim right".

& despite their constant attacks on our secularism, we are still largely a secular nation.

 

[sandandfoam]

as bad as the christian right are, id much rather live amongst them than the "muslim right".

& despite their constant attacks on our secularism, we are still largely a secular nation.

Don't you think it's a bit odd that conversation strays from a small few women in a small little country being told what not to wear to thank goodness we're so much better off than 'them' ?

Those being told what to wear are actually the oppressor. Can I be the only one who sees this as ironic?

 

[JMorris]

Don't you think it's a bit odd that conversation strays from a small few women in a small little country being told what not to wear to thank goodness we're so much better off than 'them' ?

no, it dosent surprise me when conversations change their subject over time. that sorta stuff just kinda happens sometimes.

Those being told what to wear are actually the oppressor. Can I be the only one who sees this as ironic?

i know! those poor neo-nazis in germany not being allowed to wear their swastikas! those poor, poor.... oh wait..... **** those guys...... err..... what were we talking about?

 

[Smoke]

Don't you think it's a bit odd that conversation strays from a small few women in a small little country being told what not to wear to thank goodness we're so much better off than 'them' ?

Tanuki said we shouldn't think our way is the best way. I think we should -- and when I say our way, I mean a secular society, not the third world theocracy envisioned by the Religious Right.

 

[sandandfoam]

i know! those poor neo-nazis in germany not being allowed to wear their swastikas! those poor, poor.... oh wait..... **** those guys...... err..... what were we talking about?

Have you a credible answer?
Or is it your belief that those women being told what to wear by the state are actually bogeymen and (in your view) deserve the status of oppressor and comparison to Nazi?

 

[sandandfoam]

Tanuki said we shouldn't think our way is the best way. I think we should -- and when I say our way, I mean a secular society, not the third world theocracy envisioned by the Religious Right.

There's only 2 ways?
What about tolerance?

 

[JMorris]

Have you a credible answer?
Or is it your belief that those women being told what to wear by the state are actually bogeymen and (in your view) deserve the status of oppressor and comparison to Nazi?

i believe any woman wanting to wear a burqa or niqab are extremists. and as such, shouldnt be made to feel welcomed in our societies.

 

[sandandfoam]

i believe any woman wanting to wear a burqa or niqab are extremists. and as such, shouldnt be made to feel welcomed in our societies.

Why should your view about what a woman wears carry more weight than hers?

 

[Tanuki]

I actually believe in theocracy but not the third world one of the Christian Right! If it wasn't for the governments hatred of Baha'is, I would have no problem living in Iran for example. Indeed I would rather live there than in a number of places!

 

[JMorris]

There's only 2 ways?
What about tolerance?

tolerate what exactly? i can tolerate muslims just fine, but i wont tolerate muslim extremists anymore than i would christian extremists, the kkk, skinheads, ect.

 

[sandandfoam]

tolerate what exactly? i can tolerate muslims just fine, but i wont tolerate muslim extremists anymore than i would christian extremists, the kkk, skinheads, ect.

Ok, I get it - a liberal towards liberals. Freedom for all who hold the same views as you.