Now that the door is open, where does it close?

[Marisa]

Jesus said, "If a man compels you to travel with him one mile, travel with him two". If Christians followed this scripture, none of this would be an issue anyway.

And, your points are fair, rational and difficult to rebuttal.

The lines have to be drawn somewhere and it would be wise of the gay lobby and LGBT supporters to give certain concessions.

The cry of the gay lobby was always that "we're not out to make you do something you don't want to do".

Well now, it appears that the gay lobby is doing just that. You will photograph my wedding, or you will pay the consequences.

This begs the question of whether we think that, when planning a wedding, any of us consider the feelings of those whose service we hire? Or do we simply assume that they are in that service industry to provide a service? It never occurred to me to ask the florist or caterer for my wedding their thoughts on atheists. I simply assumed the caterer wished to sell me food to feed my guests, and that the florist's primary concern was the flower arrangements.

 

[Thief]

More word salad. Why am I not surprised?

More denial....expected.

 

[k4c]

Have you noticed that if you replace the word "God" in your post with the name of a vicious dictator, you will still have something making sense?

Ciao

- viole

Sin destroys life so those who choose sin cannot exist in God's kingdom. Those who call sin what it is and resist it because it is sin will be in the kingdom of God no matter how many times they fall in this life. Those who defeat ISIS will also look unloving to those who don't know ISIS. Cancer kills life so it must be destroyed at all cost lest it destroys life. We don't know the depth of sin in man's heart nor the battle that God has in dealing with it. We do know that in the end, when all the smoke clears, the character of God will stand vindicated.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Sin destroys life so those who choose sin cannot exist in God's kingdom. Those who call sin what it is and resist it because it is sin will be in the kingdom of God no matter how many times they fall in this life. Those who defeat ISIS will also look unloving to those who don't know ISIS. Cancer kills life so it must be destroyed at all cost lest it destroys life. We don't know the depth of sin in man's heart nor the battle that God has in dealing with it. We do know that in the end, when all the smoke clears, the character of God will stand vindicated.

Can you clearly demonstrate that any of this is true?

 

[Marisa]

More denial....expected.

I expressed that I don't understand what you said. You have a choice. You can either explain it better, or accuse me of something nefarious. If you wish to engage in a conversation with me, know this: I have no intention of assuming what you say. If I don't understand, I will simply say so. Since you've never, ever, in the history of me conversing with you chosen to explain something when I asked for an explanation, I've no reason to assume you'd explain it now. If, however, you'd like to revisit that personal policy of yours, I'd be more than happy to converse with you.

 

[k4c]

Can you clearly demonstrate that any of this is true?

Can you demonstrate that it's not true? Let me put it another way for those who live by sight. Crime destroys life so crime is illegal. Anyone who lives a life of crime will not live free when they're brought before the just judge.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Since same sex marriage is legal they have now introduced into the public school system oral and anal sex education classes. What are your thoughts on this?

Here is what God says, just in case you're wondering.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

I think it's interestingly hypocritical that you would use a Bible passage that condemns revilers and extortioners to justify your reviling of people you disagree with and try to extort us to follow your religion's rules.

 

[dust1n]

Careful. That question got me called arrogant.

If I'm arrogant for asking justification from an all-knowing, all-powerful being, then there simply isn't a word that could get close to describing the sort of arrogance it would be for an all-knowing, all-powerful being to be demanding justification for the actions of the imperfect beings that he himself created in the first place. Generally, I don't scold my dog for not washing the dishes.

 

[Marisa]

If I'm arrogant for asking justification from an all-knowing, all-powerful being, then there simply isn't a word that could get close to describing the sort of arrogance it would be for an all-knowing, all-powerful being to be demanding justification for the actions of the imperfect beings that he himself created in the first place. Generally, I don't scold my dog for not washing the dishes.

LOL Me neither, but they'd love to help . . . . with their tongues, of course.

 

[k4c]

I think it's interestingly hypocritical that you would use a Bible passage that condemns revilers and extortioners to justify your reviling of people you disagree with and try to extort us to follow your religion's rules.

Put two men on an island and come back 100 years later who will be left? Homosexuallity is against God and nature. Case closed, end of story.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Put two men on an island and come back 100 years later who will be left? Homosexuallity is against God and nature. Case closed, end of story.

But incest isn't "against God and nature" apparently. ;-)

 

[Father Heathen]

Put two men on an island and come back 100 years later who will be left? Homosexuallity is against God and nature. Case closed, end of story.

Humans aren't fruit flies; we don't exist only to propagate. Nice try, though.

 

[Marisa]

Put two men on an island and come back 100 years later who will be left? Homosexuallity is against God and nature. Case closed, end of story.

Good thing we don't live on islands!

 

[idea]

The cry of the gay lobby was always that "we're not out to make you do something you don't want to do".

Well now, it appears that the gay lobby is doing just that. You will photograph my wedding, or you will pay the consequences.

I think most of the LGBT still holds to the "we're not out to make you do something you don't want to do" philosophy, just like most atheists are not militant atheists, and most Muslims are not terrorists, and most Christians are not homophobic bigots. It's a shame that the radical elements in each group get so much publicity and end up controlling so much of the population, rather than allowing the rational non-extremist majority to rule....

I was going to respond in detail, but I think I can encapsulate to the "points" you brought up.

First, we're talking about boundaries;

Second, we're talking about privacy;

Thirdly, we're talking about rules in place (such as gun control) that are there to make the world a safer place; and two gay people using the goods you sell them to facilitate a gay wedding doesn't place anyone in harm's way.

The truth is in the middle somewhere - what one person considers harmful, another person does not, etc. etc. If someone's conscience dictates that a certain action would contribute to harming another individual, let them follow the dictates of their own conscience.

There are laws against monopolies - there will always be more than one bakery, more than one photographer, more than one flower shop, more than one building to get married in etc. etc. Why would anyone go out of their way to target a business which does not specialize in a particular set of services, instead of supporting the other organizations that would gladly cater to what is needed?

To the fanatics, it's not about the wedding cake/flowers/pictures etc. ... it appears to be a matter of hunting down those with different beliefs, and trying to force business owners to go against the dictates of their own conscience.

 

[Marisa]

 

[idea]

Oh and just FYI homosexual behavior exists in nature..

This argument has always confused me. Just because something happens in nature, does not mean it is good. In nature, animals kill one another, steal from one another, etc. etc. ... "the natural man is an enemy to God"...

There are several legitimate arguments for homosexuality, but "it's fine because it's natural" is not one of them.

 

[idea]

I imagine that god would be a being of pure love and pure logic. So if that's the case, then anything devoid of reason and compassion cannot be of god. Therefore most of the bible - including the concept of eternal torment - gets tossed in the toilet.

I agree regarding eternal torment. The bible went through the dark ages, during which time quite a few things were taken out of it and changed unfortunately (That is why I use additional scriptures and resources beyond what is contained within the Bible)

Here is a question for you - what is the ultimate form of love?

I think the ultimate demonstration of love was given to us through the atonement - that the deepest form of love involves great sacrifice, "not my will, but thine be done", great faith and trust.

Are there some Catholics on here? Monks and nuns sacrifice marriage altogether in an attempt to attain this higher form of love.

What sacrifices do you think it is appropriate that God asks of us? Consider Abraham and Isaac - was it wrong of God to ask Abraham to sacrifice his son? What did Abraham gain out of that experience? I suppose all Christians at some point face the choice of what they are willing to sacrifice in order to attain a greater closeness to God.

 

[Marisa]

This argument has always confused me. Just because something happens in nature, does not mean it is good. In nature, animals kill one another, steal from one another, etc. etc. ... "the natural man is an enemy to God"...

There are several legitimate arguments for homosexuality, but "it's fine because it's natural" is not one of them.

Studying nature has a purpose. It helps us to understand ourselves better to know what commonalities we may share with the rest of the animal kingdom, and which things we do differently.

 

[idea]

No, I don't. But temple marriage is a church ordinance, not a business. As I've said before, I believe in the separation of church and state. I believe that the government has no right to interfere in religious practices and that the church has no right to interfere in civil law.

The tax-exempt status of church organizations (like our own) is currently being questioned... the line between business and church, and what constitutes religious freedom is slowly being changed.

CULTURE NEWS: Canada: Pastor Found Guilty of Hate Crime
UPDATE 3/18/13: Supremes Rule Bible as 'Hate Speech' in Canada
UPDATE 4/12/14: American Christian Arrested for Speaking at Canadian University
UPDATE 10/19/14: Idaho Pastors Face Fines, Jail for Refusing 'Gay Wedding'
UPDATE 1/11/14: Preacher Arrested for Talking of Sexual Sin
UPDATE 6/20/15: Homosexuals Force Closure of Iowa Wedding Chapel
UPDATE 12/10/09: Famous Canadian Hate Speech Ruling Reversed
UPDATE 6/11/08: Government Bans Pastor from Speaking Against Homosexuality
Catholic adoption agency loses gay adoption fight...
Catholic adoption agency loses gay adoption fight | World news | The Guardian

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This argument has always confused me. Just because something happens in nature, does not mean it is good. In nature, animals kill one another, steal from one another, etc. etc. ... "the natural man is an enemy to God"...

There are several legitimate arguments for homosexuality, but "it's fine because it's natural" is not one of them.

It isn't an argument on its own; it's a response to the argument "it's unnatural, therefore it's bad."