Now that the door is open, where does it close?

[Pudding]

Well, you see, that's the thing. We as his creation, have no right to demand anything from the one who gave us life. He has all the rights and he doesn't owe us anything. All he asks is that we obey him and read his word to understand his actions in any given situation. Shaking your fist at God because you lack understanding will get you nowhere.

As to the "rampant killing" you attribute to God......you fail to understand that God can give life and can take it if he chooses to do so. He is just in all his ways. He also has the ability to restore life, like waking someone from sleep. You place limitations of him as though he were an imperfect human...he is not! No one who died in the past will fail to receive a resurrection into a better world. The only thing that would preclude them from that restoration to life is a hatred for the Creator.

Educating ourselves is so much better than railing in ignorance.

Non-believer don't believe in your religion's claims as the claims is unconvincing for them.

You insist your opinion is right, they insist their opinion is right, go on to debate and cycle infinitely.

Or, both sides agree to let each other to live and let live.

 

[Marisa]

Home schooling also protects kids, to a certain extent from the ever present danger of bullying that has now entered cyberspace and is seeing young ones top themselves as at no other period in history.

I am glad I am not trying to raise kids in this world...there is not much that I find appealing in it at all.

There's nothing wrong with competent home schoolers. But there's a lot of incompetent Tom-foolery in the home schooling world, too. I never cease to marvel at folks who think that kids can be kept in a magic bubble where they don't ever have to see anything that needs explaining to them. What the hell else are parents for? Our job is to help them process and make sense of the world, and teach them how to be productive members of society, not to instruct them in all the ways in which they can disappoint or anger mythical entities. If we succeed in that, any mythical being worth respecting will not have a problem with us or our progeny.

 

[SomeRandom]

Look at what society now regards as "normal". Graphic sex and violence in all forms of entertainment

Because that was never prevalent in entertainment before? *cough* Homer's Odyssey, sex slaves, mutilation and murder. 1001 Arabian Nights, at least one orgy in every chapter and racism that would make slave owners of the 1800s blush. Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, a red hot fire poker shoved up the *** of one man after his jealous rival is tricked into literally kissing the *** of his fair maiden and another tale of a woman boasting about her God given sexual prowess and using it to sexually torture 12 men. Shakespeare. Just Shakespeare in general really. Sex jokes, fart jokes, **** shaming, murder and rampant sexism or "ironic parody of sexism" depending on who you talk to (Taming of the Shrew.) And the debauchery that is Titicus Andronicus of course. That's only from the top of my head.
Before that you know what family entertainment was? Going to Bedlam and laughing at the mentally ill people. Watching executions and of course the Colosseum and the spectacle that was the Gladiators. Look back in time and you'll see that humanity's idea of entertainment has always been soaked in blood and sex. With the possible exception of those kind of creepy 40s and 50s TV shows. Maybe it's because of my rambunctious youthful ways, but the peeps in the 50s shows always seemed to be really really stoned to me.
And none of that comes close to the RE teachings (Christianity specifically) I got in school. Incest, demons, genocide, infanticide and concubines were all prevalent in the stories they told us. Though they used animation as a teaching guide so that was cool. Then there was the Hindu equivalent I got at home. Post production values leaving much to be desired but there was all manner of debauchery, which was obviously presented as something to hate, like the RE stories and most stories containing something "bad." (*Ahem* like Harry freaking Potter!!)

As for your argument of "kids today, no morals." Oh every generation says that. Literally. My father grew up during the depression and even his parents were saying that. And whilst he wouldn't dare misbehave around elders when he was a child else he'd get flogged, the stories of his childhood rebellious escapades puts today's youth the shame. Fighting, swearing, drinking, smoking, having sex etc. Don't pretend teenagers/kids suddenly started doing those things only recently. I've heard the stories from you older generations about your youth. The only difference is, that was done more in secret and we do it more openly. And we live in an era where every minute detail can be recorded. Youth rebelliousness hasn't risen in the past 40 years or so, it's just harder to hide in today's world of 24 hour access to world news and video cameras literally everywhere.
There's always a divide between teens and parents, that's not exactly new, because teen rebellion is normal and integral to growing up in a healthy manner. Which is often why we have the counter culture movements of the youth throughout time. Greasers/Rock 'n' Roll swingers of the 50s, Hippies of the 60s and 70s (?), punk of the 80s, goth and emo of the 90sish, hipsters of today etc.(Hell one could even argue that the Fop/Aesthetic movement of the late 1800s was something of a youth counterculture movement.)
Broken homes? Yeah, I agree that is come to the forefront of our attention recently and that is always bad for kids (it occurred back in the day too. Just saying.) That's a bad thing.

 

[JayJayDee]

Well you see, if he created me, he created me with a sense of morality superior to that displayed in his biblical exploits, so he should be quite more than prepared to be held accountable by me. Which I WILL do for any being engaging in genocide, rest assured. I don't give a flying fart in space if this tyrant created me. Alternatively, I'm quite prepared to listen to an explanation and frankly wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that such a being not only didn't engage in the atrocities ascribed to him in his fan fiction book, but hasn't even been paying attention to us since creating the sludge we evolved from. You know, my momma used to say "I brought you into this world, I can take you out". Had she done that, you'd have thought her monstrous yet you give this beast in the bible a pass. I'm not so easily cowed into a corner, sorry that doesn't work for you. If this incompetent fool of a god was so concerned with us being in a better place, he'd have started from there to begin with. And please, I've heard the apologetics about how Adam and Eve introduced "sin" into the world, none yet have been able to explain to me satisfactorily just exactly why they should have been expected to have any meaningful concept of right and wrong before consuming the fruit which tought them about right and wrong.

All duly noted I'm sure. Do you really believe that your judgment of him matters in the big scheme of things?

Do you believe that your momma had the right to "take you out"?...even though she may have had just cause to want to?

Even if someone explained to you the full implications of the Edenic scenario, you would find a way to debunk it. That is your mindset and your choice. You have that freedom because it was given to you. If he was a despot, he would have terminated your existence a long time ago. Yet you are still here bad-mouthing him.

The first humans had a complete concept of what it meant to obey or disobey their Creator and they knew what death was...they chose it anyway. They ended up experiencing the consequences of their decision and so did their children.

If you have not bothered to sift through the man made garbage that passes for information about God, then why is he to blame for your ignorance? It is an ignorance of choice, made with an arrogant attitude. If all you want to do is judge him by his apparent actions according to your interpretation of his intentions....why do you then criticise him for judging you by yours?

Do you honestly believe that the Creator will allow you to call him an "incompetent fool" and somehow turn a blind eye to the audacity and disrespect you display? Would he even listen to someone with such an attitude? Why would he?

We will all reap what we have sown.....make no mistake. But I get the feeling that you would go down swinging..... Would I be right?

 

[Pudding]

All duly noted I'm sure. Do you really believe that your judgment of him matters in the big scheme of things?

Do you believe that your momma had the right to "take you out"?...even though she may have had just cause to want to?

Even if someone explained to you the full implications of the Edenic scenario, you would find a way to debunk it. That is your mindset and your choice. You have that freedom because it was given to you. If he was a despot, he would have terminated your existence a long time ago. Yet you are still here bad-mouthing him.

The first humans had a complete concept of what it meant to obey or disobey their Creator and they knew what death was...they chose it anyway. They ended up experiencing the consequences of their decision and so did their children.

If you have not bothered to sift through the man made garbage that passes for information about God, then why is he to blame for your ignorance? It is an ignorance of choice, made with an arrogant attitude. If all you want to do is judge him by his apparent actions according to your interpretation of his intentions....why do you then criticise him for judging you by yours?

Do you honestly believe that the Creator will allow you to call him an "incompetent fool" and somehow turn a blind eye to the audacity and disrespect you display? Would he even listen to someone with such an attitude? Why would he?

We will all reap what we have sown.....make no mistake. But I get the feeling that you would go down swinging..... Would I be right?

Please elaborate your evidence/reason/argument to support your religion's claims.

And i know, many debates have already been done, and many believer insist that they're right, and many non-believer insist to disagree with the evidence/reason/argument of religion's claims because it's unconvincing to them.

Agree to disagree, or cannot agree to disagree. Live and let live, or cannot live and let live. Cycle and repeated, infinitely.

 

[JayJayDee]

Because that was never prevalent in entertainment before? *cough* Homer's Odyssey, sex slaves, mutilation and murder. 1001 Arabian Nights, at least one orgy in every chapter and racism that would make slave owners of the 1800s blush. Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, a red hot fire poker shoved up the *** of one man after his jealous rival is tricked into literally kissing the *** of his fair maiden and another tale of a woman boasting about her God given sexual prowess and using it to sexually torture 12 men. Shakespeare. Just Shakespeare in general really. Sex jokes, fart jokes, **** shaming, murder and rampant sexism or "ironic parody of sexism" depending on who you talk to (Taming of the Shrew.) And the debauchery that is Titicus Andronicus of course. That's only from the top of my head.

Are you saying that in this age of reason, technology and higher education that we have not progressed one bit? Seems not, yet you would expect, with all our knowledge, that we would have raised our standards instead of dropping them. This is hardly an age where barbarianism would be expected...and yet it's there in the world. Blood spilling is rampant even in the games we play.

Before that you know what family entertainment was? Going to Bedlam and laughing at the mentally ill people. Watching executions and of course the Colosseum and the spectacle that was the Gladiators. Look back in time and you'll see that humanity's idea of entertainment has always been soaked in blood and sex.

So because we are no different from our ignorant, uneducated ancestors, and we have obviously not progressed in our understanding of human nature one bit, we accept all this blood lust as our primary form of entertainment....for what reason again? Can we not expect to be more civilised in this day and age? Apparently not.

And none of that comes close to the RE teachings (Christianity specifically) I got in school. Incest, demons, genocide, infanticide and concubines were all prevalent in the stories they told us. Though they used animation as a teaching guide so that was cool. Then there was the Hindu equivalent I got at home. Post production values leaving much to be desired but there was all manner of debauchery, which was obviously presented as something to hate, like the RE stories and most stories containing something "bad." (*Ahem* like Harry freaking Potter!!)

What is RE? Religious Education? Religion is being removed from the education system.

I would not allow my children to watch Harry Potter movies for the simple reason that they promote magic, witchcraft and demonism. Not really suitable subject matter for children IMO. Most especially because of the graphic nature of the subject matter. When children read books in old days they were limited by their imagination...today they don't have that privilege...it it shoved in their face in all its gory detail. The stuff of nightmares.

The Bible stories are there to teach lessons. There are good guys and bad guys in there too, but at least there is a moral to the story. There was no promotion of things that God condemned.

As for your argument of "kids today, no morals." Oh every generation says that. Literally. My father grew up during the depression and even his parents were saying that. And whilst he wouldn't dare misbehave around elders when he was a child else he'd get flogged, the stories of his childhood rebellious escapades puts today's youth the shame. Fighting, swearing, drinking, smoking, having sex etc. Don't pretend teenagers/kids suddenly started doing those things only recently. I've heard the stories from you older generations about your youth. The only difference is, that was done more in secret and we do it more openly. And we live in an era where every minute detail can be recorded. Youth rebelliousness hasn't risen in the past 40 years or so, it's just harder to hide in today's world of 24 hour access to world news and video cameras literally everywhere.

And in those days the worst STD you got were the ones that had always existed. Then they became treatable with anti-biotics. What are we facing in the world today? AIDS is wiping out whole villages in some African countries. There are so many kids without parents because of this and many of these kids are also infected. Other diseases continue to take their toll despite the advances in medicine. Diseases that we thought we had conquered have returned, stronger than ever.

Drugs were basically unheard of until the 60's and now the problem is out of control with the ice epidemic. You really think we live in better times? Nothing has changed? Really? Ask parents how easy it is to parent these days?

There's always a divide between teens and parents, that's not exactly new, because teen rebellion is normal and integral to growing up in a healthy manner. Which is often why we have the counter culture movements of the youth throughout time. Greasers/Rock 'n' Roll swingers of the 50s, Hippies of the 60s and 70s (?), punk of the 80s, goth and emo of the 90sish, hipsters of today etc.(Hell one could even argue that the Fop/Aesthetic movement of the late 1800s was something of a youth counterculture movement.)

In this age of technology, parents can no longer communicate with their children in the normal way. If they do it is often through a device of some sort. When communication breaks down, so does everything else. It is hard to find a kid these days who hasn't got a mobile phone in their hand.

Broken homes? Yeah, I agree that is come to the forefront of our attention recently and that is always bad for kids (it occurred back in the day too. Just saying.) That's a bad thing.

I guess we learned nothing from the fall of Rome...did we? The most powerful empire on earth disintegrated due to its own decadence, immorality and the breakdown of the family unit. The family is the backbone of society.....sadly, today it's back is broken.

What is that old saying about being doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past???

 

[JoStories]

"Choose your fantasy"...that's the name of the game apparently. We have more knowledge today than at any other time in history. Ignorance can no longer be claimed by the masses. People are making their choices based on what "they" want to believe about everything.

Can anyone prepare a defence before the Creator if he comes to demand an accounting? Our choices determine our future. If you see no future, then you get what you asked for. That's fair isn't it?

Exactly what defense do I need? I live a good life, I am kind to others, I harm no one, I don't lie, cheat or steal, etc. I am celibate in honor of my late partner. SO what exactly do I have to defend from? For not hopping from one foot to the other based on your Bible? On laws so antiquated they have no meaning whatsoever in today's world? Yeah, I have SOOOOOOOOOO much to defend myself for.

 

[JoStories]

We don't have to eat garbage to know that it stinks. Educating our children will hopefully offset what the world is teaching them. We can live in the world without becoming part of the rot. Some of us haven't sold out when it comes to common decency. (Which is not so common any more)



No one said it was. We choose what we want to believe and what values (if any) we uphold. We will be judged regardless of what we believe. You can't hide from the Creator by pretending he is not there.



Oh, yes they have.....You must be young or you would remember what entertainment used to be like.....it was nothing close to what is served up these days.

I am a child of the sixties and the world before that was not the world we know now. Any wonder it was called a "revolution".



Stop blaming society? Are you serious? Look at what society now regards as "normal". Graphic sex and violence in all forms of entertainment...foul language even from young children who obviously hear it at home....teenagers with the morals of alley cats, who most likely learn that from their parents too. Families are no longer a mother and a father who are married and who produce siblings who are related to each other by more than one parent.

We have the constant propaganda from our TV screens promoting everything common decency used to denounce.

Has all this freedom for self expression led to happiness among the general population? Are fractured families the better way to live? Are our kids in a better state of mental health? Are we? Have you checked out the stats for mental health problems lately? It is a global epidemic.

If this state of affairs is the illusion you wish to swallow as better than the "good old days"....you must live in Disneyland.

I see now. I am supposed to be worried for uttering words when frustrated that have no meaning. What exactly is the significant difference between " I don't give a rip" and "I don't give a sh*t"? They both mean the same you realize. And btw...if the TV is such a bad influence, TURN IT OFF. Its that simple, non? IMO, the problem of fractured families and all this mental health has more to do with technology than anything else. So take the Ipad and Smart phones away. And the PC's. Talk to kids. Btw...did you know that the greatest percentage of divorces and single parent homes are within the Christian community? What's the deal with that? You point the finger of blame here but when it comes down to it, that finger is firmly pointed at you.

 

[JoStories]

And in those days the worst STD you got were the ones that had always existed. Then they became treatable with anti-biotics. What are we facing in the world today? AIDS is wiping out whole villages in some African countries. There are so many kids without parents because of this and many of these kids are also infected. Other diseases continue to take their toll despite the advances in medicine. Diseases that we thought we had conquered have returned, stronger than ever.

Drugs were basically unheard of until the 60's and now the problem is out of control with the ice epidemic. You really think we live in better times? Nothing has changed? Really? Ask parents how easy it is to parent these days?

You need to take some history courses. About 150 or so years ago, syphillus was a killer as no one had antibiotics. Its no different that HIV or AIDS in that regard. As for drugs, seriously? Plants were the things that people used and opium has been around for centuries. Willow bark, foxglove, and many others like peyote, which is still used today by some tribes, were as bad as ice and such. Did you know who said this: I fear for the children of today. That would have been Socrates. Maybe you really should read more than just the one book.

 

[JayJayDee]

I see now. I am supposed to be worried for uttering words when frustrated that have no meaning. What exactly is the significant difference between " I don't give a rip" and "I don't give a sh*t"? They both mean the same you realize.

The Bible has a principle when it comes to speech. It say that "A fountain does not cause the sweet and the bitter to bubble out of the same opening, does it?"
(James 3:11)

It also says "Let a rotten word not come out of your mouth, but only what is good for building up as the need may be, to impart what is beneficial to the hearers." (Eph 4:29)
If Jesus did not use bad language or profanity, then why would we if we claim to be his followers?

And btw...if the TV is such a bad influence, TURN IT OFF. Its that simple, non?

That might work in my home, but not with the kids that rub shoulders with my kids at school and who use profanity as a matter of everyday speech and parade their bad attitudes all over the place.

IMO, the problem of fractured families and all this mental health has more to do with technology than anything else. So take the Ipad and Smart phones away. And the PC's. Talk to kids.

What a refreshing idea! Let's do that! LOL......and watch the riot!

Btw...did you know that the greatest percentage of divorces and single parent homes are within the Christian community? What's the deal with that?

The deal with that is "Christian is as Christian does". When Jesus said no divorce except on the grounds of indidelity, he meant it. (Matt 19:9) You can't call yourself a Christian unless you adhere to Christ's teachings...all of them, not just the ones you find convenient.

You point the finger of blame here but when it comes down to it, that finger is firmly pointed at you.

No, I'm sorry...JW's have one of the lowest divorce rates. We promote family values and encourage families to stay together. We provide spiritual help for the problems that face families today. If God is truly in our marriage, then we have reasons to try to make it work....not just for ourselves but for any children we may have. How many of today's kids are raised by the parents who produced them?

 

[JoStories]

The Bible has a principle when it comes to speech. It say that "A fountain does not cause the sweet and the bitter to bubble out of the same opening, does it?"
(James 3:11)

It also says "Let a rotten word not come out of your mouth, but only what is good for building up as the need may be, to impart what is beneficial to the hearers." (Eph 4:29)
If Jesus did not use bad language or profanity, then why would we if we claim to be his followers?


That might work in my home, but not with the kids that rub shoulders with my kids at school and who use profanity as a matter of everyday speech and parade their bad attitudes all over the place.



What a refreshing idea! Let's do that! LOL......and watch the riot!

The deal with that is "Christian is as Christian does". When Jesus said no divorce except on the grounds of indidelity, he meant it. (Matt 19:9) You can't call yourself a Christian unless you adhere to Christ's teachings...all of them, not just the ones you find convenient.

No, I'm sorry...JW's have one of the lowest divorce rates. We promote family values and encourage families to stay together. We provide spiritual help for the problems that face families today. If God is truly in our marriage, then we have reasons to try to make it work....not just for ourselves but for any children we may have. How many of today's kids are raised by the parents who produced them?


Regarding not saying a bad word, what would constitute a 'bad word'. These bad words change with each generation and none of that, btw, answered my questions of what is the difference between 'rip' and sh*t". I knew a woman in Mississippi who was a staunch Christian and according to her, the first was fine while the second was 'not accepted in God's law'. So again, if the intent is the same, is this not simply a game of semantics?

Regarding kids at school, the solution is simple: Home school your kids. DO that and they have idea how to socialize and engage people based on the ideals they are taught at home, or do you not trust your own children? Seems like a set up to have them hate you.

Regarding technology, I care not if there was a riot. Too many today are unable to socialize as they have no idea how to. I don;t care if they get angry. I don't watch TV nor do I text. I do use my PC but only about 1 to 1.5 hours a day, other than my audible books which I love. Ask a child today what is the first line of "A Tale of Two Cities". They won't know but I do. Ask them who is the protagonist of Moby Dick or who told the tale. They won't know but I do.

Regarding divorce rates, it remains a fact that the highest rate is among Christians, and I don't select one particular group out of another.

 

[SomeRandom]

Are you saying that in this age of reason, technology and higher education that we have not progressed one bit? Seems not, yet you would expect, with all our knowledge, that we would have raised our standards instead of dropping them. This is hardly an age where barbarianism would be expected...and yet it's there in the world. Blood spilling is rampant even in the games we play.

I spoke of classical literature, mate. The stuff the literary elite respect and study deeply and the basis for the Western Literary Canon. Hell Chaucer is considered the Father of English poetry. So, I have no idea what standards you are talking about. The Literature that we revere as the forerunners for today's "proper literature" always had debauchery plainly in the text. But you see, entertainment is and always will pander to the lowest common denominator. That's how you make a profit. Even the highly respected grandfathers of literature knew that.
We do expect more from certain mediums today in comparison to the past, though. Like children's programming has become quite sophisticated over the last few decades, animation is expected to have actual effort in the writing nowadays and games can no longer get away with being mindless crap.
And please, if blood spillage is the only thing you take away from games nowadays (not all games involve blood just FYI) you need to start using better analysis techniques.

So because we are no different from our ignorant, uneducated ancestors, and we have obviously not progressed in our understanding of human nature one bit, we accept all this blood lust as our primary form of entertainment....for what reason again? Can we not expect to be more civilised in this day and age? Apparently not.

I would not call Ancient Romans uneducated (not all of them at least.) Much of our modern Science (in particular Medical Science) philosophy and even architecture is still greatly influenced by them.

What is RE? Religious Education? Religion is being removed from the education system.

Yes, RE is Religious Education.
Not where I live. RE is still semi integral to Public Schooling. And yet people here are still going on and on about the "breakdown of youth" as if it's some new argument. I would argue that RE has no place in Public School, except for comparison classes. Public School is for learning, not any religious agenda. Because guess what? There's no official religion for public school kids, there's Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and every other religious flavor going to school. Which is why you can't have just one religion being taught. It's discriminatory. Teachers aren't even allowed to voice their religious opinions in class. Because you know, professionalism. Though to be fair I quite liked our School Chaplain, mainly because she wasn't some preachy sanctimonious holier than thou person. And she was legitimately a follower of Jesus' teachings. Sometimes seeing that is a far stronger case for God than having religion taught to you in a classroom, cutting into your study time. You want religion to be taught to your kid? Fine. Teach it to your kid yourself, go to Church or send them to a religious school. Don't try to foist it onto everyone else.

I would not allow my children to watch Harry Potter movies for the simple reason that they promote magic, witchcraft and demonism. Not really suitable subject matter for children IMO.

Thematically speaking Harry Potter promotes courage, strength, loyalty, friendship and actively discourages prejudice and bullying. Did you even read it? "Demonism" is not anywhere in the text, with the possible exception of things done by Voldemort. THE VILLAIN. Ie someone obviously not meant to be imitated. Kids are not stupid, you know?
Magic is merely a backdrop, kind of like Merlin being a sorcerer in the Arthurian legends. If you try to practice the so called "witchcraft" in either story nothing will happen. Because it's not actual witchcraft. It's make believe. God do you also ban the Looney Tunes? Witch Hazel is a probably a more accurate portrayal of magic than Harry Potter. You may as well say The Chronicles of Narnia promotes sorcery and magic because Aslan uses it. (Fun fact in both Harry Potter and Narnia, Harry and Aslan serve the role as a Jesus type character. And both were written by Christians.)

When children read books in old days they were limited by their imagination...today they don't have that privilege...it it shoved in their face in all its gory detail. The stuff of nightmares.

That's funny, because in horror movies it's often assumed that nothing is worse than the audience's imagination. That's why Jaws wasn't seen until like the second or third act. The director purposely left it vague because he knew nothing on screen would match the audience's imagination.
Also books haven't gotten more graphic, they've always been that graphic in their portrayals of violence, gore, sex and debauchery. The only exception might be 19th century literature, when language and societal sensibilities were really rigid and formal. Rebellious texts came about to challenge this, most notably Oscar Wilde, leader of the Aesthetic and Decadent movements at the time. And even still, I'm fairly certain there's no vagueness with the violence in Charlie Dickens' Oliver Twist. And I sincerely have no doubt about what violent acts were being portrayed in Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame or Les Miserables. To use an oft used internet idiom, do you even read, bro?

The Bible stories are there to teach lessons. There are good guys and bad guys in there too, but at least there is a moral to the story. There was no promotion of things that God condemned.

Yes, just like Harry Potter, Narnia and every single children's story in existence (and most adult stories.) The thing is books are stories and stories reflect humanity, the good the bad and the ugly. This is why it's generally assumed that depiction is not the same as promotion. Otherwise 1984 would be accused of promoting a totalitarian state and Big Brother. But it's very clear from the text that Orwell detests the government he portrays. Emily Bronte probably had very little love for Heathcliff and I'm fairly certain Nabokov was at least freaked out by Humbert Humbert and his actions. If all a story/author could ever depict is the good or "Godly" stuff then the story would cease to exist. Because it needs friction and tension. This comes about through obstacles or adversaries to the protagonist.

And in those days the worst STD you got were the ones that had always existed. Then they became treatable with anti-biotics.

Yes, before that though STD's were often a death sentence. And even now Gonorrhea can cause infertility to women, if not treated quickly (and since sometimes the signs are so mild in some women, they might not get treatment in time.) So it's not like we're completely out of the woods.

What are we facing in the world today? AIDS is wiping out whole villages in some African countries. There are so many kids without parents because of this and many of these kids are also infected

Yes AIDS is quite a big concern. Much like Cancer. But eventually we will cure it, it may take several more decades, but we will persevere. Just like we did waiting for cures of all the other STD's which took decades and some even centuries to properly control. Medicine is not a freaking genie, it can't just snap it's ****ing fingers and find a cure for every ailment in our species on the spot. Some diseases take time to cure you know?

Other diseases continue to take their toll despite the advances in medicine. Diseases that we thought we had conquered have returned, stronger than ever.

Yes, that is often attributed to morons refusing medicine in the first place!! (Most notably people refusing to vaccinate their kids.) How is that medicine's fault exactly? It gives people a ****ing prevention technique they shun it and then cry about it when the predictions made by the same medical practitioners about diseases returning with a vengeance come to fruition. Medicine has done all it can, but you can't cure stupid, unfortunately.

Drugs were basically unheard of until the 60's and now the problem is out of control with the ice epidemic. You really think we live in better times? Nothing has changed? Really? Ask parents how easy it is to parent these days?

*Cough* Confessions of an English Opium Eater by Thomas De Quincey. Published in 1821.*Cough* Fun fact, opium usage was quite prominent in the late 1800s. They even had Opium dens and this makes an appearance in literature at the time. For example, in the Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde the titular character wanders into such a den during the third act and the audience learns that he frequents such establishments quite a bit.

In this age of technology, parents can no longer communicate with their children in the normal way. If they do it is often through a device of some sort. When communication breaks down, so does everything else. It is hard to find a kid these days who hasn't got a mobile phone in their hand.

Funny, many parents often find ways to communicate with their kids today. Most often by reading alongside them the popular YA titles and actually being parents. Like don't go all lazy and blame technology. That's such a cop out. If a parent actually wants to be a parent, then they learn to adapt to the changing world around them, otherwise they must be rather lazy parents. I'm sure you agree with me there?

I guess we learned nothing from the fall of Rome...did we? The most powerful empire on earth disintegrated due to its own decadence, immorality and the breakdown of the family unit. The family is the backbone of society.....sadly, today it's back is broken.

The fall of Rome is still a topic of heated debate amongst Academia today. The most common reasons given for the collapse are actually a number of things. Friction caused by Christianity becoming more prominent and coming to odds with the pagans. As of then unknowns diseases traveling to them by newly opened trade routes, weakening of their money due to poor trading decisions and of course just becoming too big of an Empire to sustain itself.
All empires rise and fall. Tis the way of history.

What is that old saying about being doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past???

Don't worry, Rome lasted 1000 years, America is barely a few centuries old. Going by history you still have quite a few centuries yet, right?

 

[Deathbydefault]

Since same sex marriage is legal they have now introduced into the public school system oral and anal sex education classes. What are your thoughts on this?

Here is what God says, just in case you're wondering.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Thought 1: Don't give a damn what they teach, so long as their information is fact based not faith based.

Thought 2: I don't care about God's kingdom nor do I believe it exists, and if it does I don't want to be there anyways.

 

[Deathbydefault]

I spoke of classical literature, mate. The stuff the literary elite respect and study deeply and the basis for the Western Literary Canon. Hell Chaucer is considered the Father of English poetry. So, I have no idea what standards you are talking about. The Literature that we revere as the forerunners for today's "proper literature" always had debauchery plainly in the text. But you see, entertainment is and always will pander to the lowest common denominator. That's how you make a profit. Even the highly respected grandfathers of literature knew that.
We do expect more from certain mediums today in comparison to the past, though. Like children's programming has become quite sophisticated over the last few decades, animation is expected to have actual effort in the writing nowadays and games can no longer get away with being mindless crap.
And please, if blood spillage is the only thing you take away from games nowadays (not all games involve blood just FYI) you need to start using better analysis techniques.



I would not call Ancient Romans uneducated (not all of them at least.) Much of our modern Science (in particular Medical Science) philosophy and even architecture is still greatly influenced by them.



Yes, RE is Religious Education.
Not where I live. RE is still semi integral to Public Schooling (though I would argue that it has no place in public classrooms, the only exception being a comparison class.) And yet people here are still going on and on about the "breakdown of youth" as if it's some new argument. Public School is for learning, not any religious agenda. Not even teachers are allowed to voice their religious opinions in class. Because you know, professionalism. Though to be fair I quite liked our School Chaplain, mainly because she wasn't some preachy sanctimonious holier than thou person. And she was legitimately a follower of Jesus' teachings. Sometimes seeing that is a far stronger case for God than having religion taught to you in a classroom, cutting into your study time. You want religion to be taught to your kid? Fine. Teach it to your kid yourself, go to Church or send them to a religious school. Don't try to foist it onto everyone else.



Thematically speaking Harry Potter promotes courage, strength, loyalty, friendship and actively discourages prejudice and bullying. Did you even read it? "Demonism" is not anywhere in the text, magic is merely a backdrop, like Merlin being a sorcerer in the Arthurian legends. You try to practice the so called "witchcraft" in either story and nothing will happen. Because it's not actual witchcraft. It's make believe. God do you also ban the Looney Tunes? Witch Hazel is a probably a more accurate portrayal of magic than Harry Potter. You may as well say The Chronicles of Narnia promotes sorcery and magic because Aslan uses it. (Fun fact in both Harry Potter and Narnia, Harry and Aslan both serve the role as a Jesus type character. And both were written by Christians.)




That's funny, because in horror movies it's often assumed that nothing is worse than the audience's imagination. That's why Jaws wasn't seen until like the second or third act. The director purposely left it vague because he knew nothing on screen would match the audience's imagination.
Also books haven't gotten more graphic, they've always been that graphic in their portrayals of violence, gore, sex and debauchery. The only exception might be 19th century literature, when language and societal sensibilities were really rigid and formal. Rebellious texts came about to challenge this, most notably Oscar Wilde, leader of the Aesthetic and Decadent movements at the time. And even still, I'm fairly certain there's no vagueness with the violence in Charlie Dickens' Oliver Twist. And I sincerely have no doubt about what violent acts were being portrayed in Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame or Les Miserables. To use an oft used internet idiom, do you even read, bro?



Yes, just like Harry Potter, Narnia and every single children's story in existence. The thing is books are stories and stories reflect humanity, the good the bad and the ugly. This is why it's generally assumed that depiction is not the same as promotion. Otherwise 1984 would be accused of promoting a totalitarian state and Big Brother. But it's very clear from the text that Orwell detests the government he portrays. Emily Bronte probably had very little love for Heathcliff and I'm fairly certain Nabokov was at least freaked out by Humbert Humbert and his actions. If all a story/author could ever depict is the good or "Godly" stuff then the story would cease to exist. Because it needs friction and tension. This comes about through obstacles or adversaries to the protagonist.




Yes, before that though STD's were often a death sentence. And even now Gonorrhea can cause infertility to women, if not treated quickly (and since sometimes the signs are so mild in some women, they might not get treatment in time.) So it's not like we're completely out of the woods.



Yes AIDS is quite a big concern. Much like Cancer. But eventually we will cure it, it may take several more decades, but we will persevere. Just like we did waiting for cures of all the other STD's which took decades and some even centuries to properly control. Medicine is not a freaking genie, it can't just snap it's ****ing fingers and find a cure for every ailment in our species on the spot. Some diseases take time to cure you know?



Yes, that is often attributed to morons refusing medicine in the first place!! (Most notably people refusing to vaccinate their kids.) How is that medicine's fault exactly? It gives people a ****ing prevention technique they shun it and then cry about it when the predictions made by the same medical practitioners about diseases returning with a vengeance come to fruition. Medicine has done all it can, but you can't cure stupid, unfortunately.




*Cough* Confessions of an English Opium Eater by Thomas De Quincey. Published in 1821.*Cough* Fun fact, opium usage was quite prominent in the late 1800s. They even had Opium dens and this makes an appearance in literature at the time. For example, in the Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde the titular character wanders into such a den during the third act and the audience learns that he frequents such establishments quite a bit.



Funny, many parents often find ways to communicate with their kids today. Most notably by reading alongside them the popular YA titles and actually being parents. Like don't go all lazy and blame technology. That's such a cop out. If a parent actually wants to be a parent, then they learn to adapt to the changing world around them, otherwise they must be rather lazy parents. I'm sure you agree with me there?



The fall of Rome is still a topic of heated debate amongst Academia today. The most common reasons given for the collapse are actually a number of things. Friction caused by Christianity becoming more prominent and coming to odds with the pagans. As of then unknowns diseases traveling to them by newly opened trade routes, weakening of their money due to poor trading decisions and of course just becoming too big of an Empire to sustain itself.
All empires rise and fall. Tis the way of history.



Don't worry, Rome lasted 1000 years, America is barely a few centuries old. Going by history you still have quite a few centuries yet, right?

This was one of the few times I've ever actually enjoyed reading a long *** post.
I agree with everything said here, cheers.

 

[SomeRandom]

This was one of the few times I've ever actually enjoyed reading a long *** post.
I agree with everything said here, cheers.

Oh cheers mate.

 

[Marisa]

All duly noted I'm sure. Do you really believe that your judgment of him matters in the big scheme of things?

Do you believe that your momma had the right to "take you out"?...even though she may have had just cause to want to?

Even if someone explained to you the full implications of the Edenic scenario, you would find a way to debunk it. That is your mindset and your choice. You have that freedom because it was given to you. If he was a despot, he would have terminated your existence a long time ago. Yet you are still here bad-mouthing him.

The first humans had a complete concept of what it meant to obey or disobey their Creator and they knew what death was...they chose it anyway. They ended up experiencing the consequences of their decision and so did their children.

If you have not bothered to sift through the man made garbage that passes for information about God, then why is he to blame for your ignorance? It is an ignorance of choice, made with an arrogant attitude. If all you want to do is judge him by his apparent actions according to your interpretation of his intentions....why do you then criticise him for judging you by yours?

Do you honestly believe that the Creator will allow you to call him an "incompetent fool" and somehow turn a blind eye to the audacity and disrespect you display? Would he even listen to someone with such an attitude? Why would he?

We will all reap what we have sown.....make no mistake. But I get the feeling that you would go down swinging..... Would I be right?

I don't believe he exists.

You missed the point because you're too busy defending the mythical guy in the sky, but I expected nothing less. It's funny, but the religious do that all the time, and then immediately retort with something about choosing and the supposed free will to reject the guy in the sky, but conveniently forget the guy in the sky's punishment for that completely canceling any intelligent understanding of what free will has to mean. It just sounds good, I suppose.

If the "first" humans had the concept of right and wrong, good and evil, etc. there would have been no reason for the admonition not to eat the fruit. But there was a reason, I understand that because I'm not hamstrung by the need to, at all costs, defend defend defend.

I'm not addressing god. I don't get to because if he exists, he's not bothered to make that well known. I'm addressing his spokespeople. In this case, that's the creator of this thread, and all the little PR reps that jump to the guy in the sky's defense. Funny how when I hold your god to the same standard you hold me, suddenly I'm arrogant. And ignorant. Delightful. Really makes me wanna join up.

I just did call him an incompetent fool. There, did it again. He's omnipotent, right? Not only does he know I did it, he's known for 48 years I was going to do it. He knew I would do it when he formed me. It's all part of his divine plan. Maybe I'm here to test you. Still waiting on that lightening bolt. Oh wait, that's Zeus. I suppose he doesn't need to listen when he's got thousands of apologetics running around alluding to me I'm gonna burn in hell if I don't straighten up and fly right. Imagine my surprise. Now imagine my fear.

I have no intention of volunteering for slavery. Make of that whatever you need to in order to preserve the image of your imaginary friend that works best for you.

 

[Marisa]

Are you saying that in this age of reason, technology and higher education that we have not progressed one bit? Seems not, yet you would expect, with all our knowledge, that we would have raised our standards instead of dropping them. This is hardly an age where barbarianism would be expected...and yet it's there in the world. Blood spilling is rampant even in the games we play.



So because we are no different from our ignorant, uneducated ancestors, and we have obviously not progressed in our understanding of human nature one bit, we accept all this blood lust as our primary form of entertainment....for what reason again? Can we not expect to be more civilised in this day and age? Apparently not.



What is RE? Religious Education? Religion is being removed from the education system.

I would not allow my children to watch Harry Potter movies for the simple reason that they promote magic, witchcraft and demonism. Not really suitable subject matter for children IMO. Most especially because of the graphic nature of the subject matter. When children read books in old days they were limited by their imagination...today they don't have that privilege...it it shoved in their face in all its gory detail. The stuff of nightmares.

The Bible stories are there to teach lessons. There are good guys and bad guys in there too, but at least there is a moral to the story. There was no promotion of things that God condemned.



And in those days the worst STD you got were the ones that had always existed. Then they became treatable with anti-biotics. What are we facing in the world today? AIDS is wiping out whole villages in some African countries. There are so many kids without parents because of this and many of these kids are also infected. Other diseases continue to take their toll despite the advances in medicine. Diseases that we thought we had conquered have returned, stronger than ever.

Drugs were basically unheard of until the 60's and now the problem is out of control with the ice epidemic. You really think we live in better times? Nothing has changed? Really? Ask parents how easy it is to parent these days?



In this age of technology, parents can no longer communicate with their children in the normal way. If they do it is often through a device of some sort. When communication breaks down, so does everything else. It is hard to find a kid these days who hasn't got a mobile phone in their hand.



I guess we learned nothing from the fall of Rome...did we? The most powerful empire on earth disintegrated due to its own decadence, immorality and the breakdown of the family unit. The family is the backbone of society.....sadly, today it's back is broken.

What is that old saying about being doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past???

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Who knew the bible is the only book ever written with a moral? You just got done admonishing me for having assumed I'm ignorant of the bible and then you make that statement? You realize you just basically admitted to being ignorant of anything but the bible, yet opting to criticize anyway? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Who's arrogant now?

ETA: I am a parent. So far, the biggest hurdles I face are folks who want to remove her option to learn actual history (they want to muck it all up with insinuations that Moses, who may or may not have ever existed but most certainly parted no seas when he couldn't find his way out of the friggin desert) inspired the Constitution, and absolutely NO SCIENCE IN THE SCIENCE CLASSROOM!!!! Folks who will attempt, despite my efforts otherwise, to teach her that her body and what it naturally does are offensive to imaginary beings whose existence will never, ever be proved. Folks who, if they could, would force me to take her to church despite my parental right to raise her every bit the atheist I was raised. Drugs were no problem. Violent video games aren't what's ruining our society, it's people who run around feeling all pious and godly for telling other people that they are offensive in the sight of god. That's what's ruining our society, and driving young folks out of the churches in ever increasing numbers. But then it's never really been religions' strong suit to examine itself as much as it examines everything else.

 

[JoStories]

What is RE? Religious Education? Religion is being removed from the education system.

I would not allow my children to watch Harry Potter movies for the simple reason that they promote magic, witchcraft and demonism. Not really suitable subject matter for children IMO. Most especially because of the graphic nature of the subject matter. When children read books in old days they were limited by their imagination...today they don't have that privilege...it it shoved in their face in all its gory detail. The stuff of nightmares.

The Bible stories are there to teach lessons. There are good guys and bad guys in there too, but at least there is a moral to the story. There was no promotion of things that God condemned.

I find it hard to believe you cannot see the morals included in many of the stories of today and yesterday. Did you let your children read "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe"? If not, why not? CS Lewis was clear that it was about Christianity. And tons of magic, etc, in there. What about the Potter stories has you in such a fervor? The children teach loyalty, perseverance, strength, bravery and much more. Graphic how when compared to the Bible, which teaches to murder by stoning, or genocide, or sacrificing one's own child. Yeah, that's the stuff to teach kids now isn't it?

 

[JoStories]

This was one of the few times I've ever actually enjoyed reading a long *** post.
I agree with everything said here, cheers.

For the record, I almost never read long posts either but I did read this one, as you did and agree. It was top notch!

 

[Deathbydefault]

For the record, I almost never read long posts either but I did read this one, as you did and agree. It was top notch!

Indeed it was.