Now that the door is open, where does it close?

[Deathbydefault]

JayJayDee, you and my mother could be best friends.
She tried to control every aspect of my life too, and still does.
She overly sheltered me.
She is a leading member of the PTA group that killed science classes in my schools.
She treated me like a puppy that needed to be raised not to **** on the floor.
She restricted heavily what shows I could watch, when, and how long.
She gave me only one option in any scenario that she thought related to religion.

and when I rejected all that, she disowned me.
Would you disown your kids for your religion?
I ask that under the assumption you have kids that are young or intend to have kids one day.
You seem the type that would, but at the same time I kinda think you wouldn't.

You'd have to be a pretty big b***h to just reject your child for something so subjective.
Then again Jesus did basically say to love him more than your family or no Heaven for you.
Matthew 10 | ReligiousForums.com
10:37

Don't know if JWs follow all that or not, never cared enough to really find out.
Then again I never cared enough about Christianity as a whole to figure out which part believes whatever.

 

[SomeRandom]

For the record, I almost never read long posts either but I did read this one, as you did and agree. It was top notch!

Indeed it was.

D'AWW SHUCKS GUYS.

 

[Marisa]

JayJayDee, you and my mother could be best friends.
She tried to control every aspect of my life too, and still does.
She overly sheltered me.
She is a leading member of the PTA group that killed science classes in my schools.
She treated me like a puppy that needed to be raised not to **** on the floor.
She restricted heavily what shows I could watch, when, and how long.
She gave me only one option in any scenario that she thought related to religion.

and when I rejected all that, she disowned me.
Would you disown your kids for your religion?
I ask that under the assumption you have kids that are young or intend to have kids one day.
You seem the type that would, but at the same time I kinda think you wouldn't.

You'd have to be a pretty big b***h to just reject your child for something so subjective.
Then again Jesus did basically say to love him more than your family or no Heaven for you.
Matthew 10 | ReligiousForums.com
10:37

Don't know if JWs follow all that or not, never cared enough to really find out.
Then again I never cared enough about Christianity as a whole to figure out which part believes whatever.

I'm sorry your experience was thus. As for myself, I can imagine a lot my kid might do that would disappoint me, like becoming a creationist, but nothing that I would disown her for, including becoming a creationist.

 

[Marisa]

D'AWW SHUCKS GUYS.

Well I'll be the stick in the mud and say it sucked. Sucked the wind right outta my sails, cuz I would have said pretty much the same thing.

 

[bobhikes]

Since same sex marriage is legal they have now introduced into the public school system oral and anal sex education classes. What are your thoughts on this?

Here is what God says, just in case you're wondering.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

First off Since there are more heterosexual couples than homosexual more oral sex occurs between heterosexuals. In fact a Priest in Catholic pre-cana actually told us oral sex was OK as long as ejaculation was in the vagina. So catholic priests have been teaching this marring couples as young as 18 and for as long as I am married of 17 years

I don't have the numbers but I would bet there is more anal sex between heterosexuals as well, people like different things and there a way more heterosexual couples.

Lastly I doubt especially with the school system on break that any classes have been introduced based on the supreme court decision. They simply wouldn't have time. If the class was taught it was in the works before the 2015 classes began. Schools are very slow to introduce new educational criteria.

 

[SomeRandom]

Well I'll be the stick in the mud and say it sucked. Sucked the wind right outta my sails, cuz I would have said pretty much the same thing.

............

 

[Deathbydefault]

I'm sorry your experience was thus. As for myself, I can imagine a lot my kid might do that would disappoint me, like becoming a creationist, but nothing that I would disown her for, including becoming a creationist.

Someone such as yourself would never lead me to asking that question.
Also, I'm used to being treated this way... closing in on about a decade of it.
It's almost funny when you see the entirety of it all, and what issues it has permeated into my future.
Similar to how a solider can't stop laughing after surviving a hard won battle.

Not trying to compare myself to the nations heroes, just using a good analogy.

 

[SomeRandom]

Someone such as yourself would never lead me to asking that question.
Also, I'm used to being treated this way... closing in on about a decade of it.
It's almost funny when you see the entirety of it all, and what issues it has permeated into my future.
Similar to how a solider can't stop laughing after surviving a hard won battle.

Not trying to compare myself to the nations heroes, just using a good analogy.

Sorry for the way your mother has treated you. That's quite appalling, to be frank.
This may be a bit random, but your posts have a certain air of poetry about them. I don't know if that's conscious or not on your part, just saying you seem like you'd be quite talented in such arts.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Sorry for the way your mother has treated you. That's quite appalling, to be frank.
This may be a bit random, but your posts have a certain air of poetry about them. I don't know if that's conscious or not on your part, just saying you seem like you'd be talented in such arts.

I stick to science mostly but I do draw quite a lot at work as well.
I'll never say I'm good but I can't say I'm bad.

And thank you
My mother is just a b*tch, don't mind her idiotic actions.
I can take the damage, it's good for developing self-control.

 

[Marisa]

Someone such as yourself would never lead me to asking that question.
Also, I'm used to being treated this way... closing in on about a decade of it.
It's almost funny when you see the entirety of it all, and what issues it has permeated into my future.
Similar to how a solider can't stop laughing after surviving a hard won battle.

Not trying to compare myself to the nations heroes, just using a good analogy.

Different people respond to trauma differently. In some ways, religion exploits that an other fears. My hubs is a 24 year army vet retiring next spring. Never seen him laugh, but he's a pretty stoic guy all around. And indeed, this world would be a much better place if we didn't go around counting other people's shortcomings and ignoring our own. Religionists aren't the only who engage in this type of self validating behavior, but they do often seem exceptionally successful at it.

 

[SomeRandom]

I stick to science mostly but I do draw quite a lot at work as well.
I'll never say I'm good but I can't say I'm bad.

And thank you
My mother is just a b*tch, don't mind her idiotic actions.
I can take the damage, it's good for developing self-control.

Don't get me wrong I'm all about Science. But what's life without art? I mean in both Huxley's Brave New World and 1984 the starting point of the deconstruction of humanity is literally destruction of our arts. There's a reason for that IMO.
Well as long as you're coping well

 

[Deathbydefault]

Different people respond to trauma differently. In some ways, religion exploits that an other fears. My hubs is a 24 year army vet retiring next spring. Never seen him laugh, but he's a pretty stoic guy all around. And indeed, this world would be a much better place idpf we didn't go around counting other people's shotprtcomoping ps and ignoring our own. Religionists aren't the only who engage in this type of self validating behavior, but they do often seem exceptionally successful at it.

Give your husband my respect for me, I appreciate those who serve and protect.
I intend to enlist into the marines myself, though they probably wont accept me.
My response to trauma is very much here, I'm not as good of a person as I may seem.

I see such behavior mostly in people who like to hide behind something.
A religion seems like a decently big thing to hide behind, IMO.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Don't get me wrong I'm all about Science. But what's life without art? I mean in both Huxley's Brave New World and 1984 the starting point of the deconstruction of humanity is literally destruction of our arts. There's a reason for that IMO.
Well as long as you're coping well

I can see why you would say that.
And I am, thank you.

 

[Riverwolf]

Home schooling also protects kids, to a certain extent from the ever present danger of bullying that has now entered cyberspace and is seeing young ones top themselves as at no other period in history.

I am glad I am not trying to raise kids in this world...there is not much that I find appealing in it at all.

Heh. I guess we can relate in some way. ^_^

Though there's always the important thing to consider: as humans we are social species, and thus NEED socialization outside of the family unit. Otherwise... we tend to go kinda... cookoo. ESPECIALLY true for extroverts. Hence the necessity for extracurricular activities (in your case... wait, to JWs have Sunday Church? 'Cause that's actually a great source for such socialization).

It's also important to remember that sheltering kids can cause MAJOR problems later in life. I, for instance, was not home schooled but still very sheltered. If you want to know just how sheltered I was, and to a degree still am, I didn't know about Jesus until I was in Middle School, and even then my primary introduction to the guy was Jesus Christ Superstar. I knew the name "God", but because I misunderstood something my parents had said, I thought it was a bad word, and thought that it referred to some King of Angels (which is what dead people become when they go to Heaven, i.e., the Sky, which made my conception of God's function much closer to a Sky God form of Hades... take that for what you will). Anyway, one result of being so sheltered is that I'm incredibly timid and have SEVERE social anxiety. I could easily, very easily, develop paranoia or anthropophobia. Doesn't help that I have asperger's syndrome, which makes me incapable of instinctively performing certain social behaviors.

And, of course, with cyberbullying being so widespread, home schooling no longer protects kids from such abuse. You could try limiting their online activities, but... seriously, at this point, I'm not sure how possible that is outside an Amish or Amish-like community. They could easily grow to resent you and thus rebel HARD. As it were, when you make sex evil, you make evil sexy.

 

[JayJayDee]

Heh. I guess we can relate in some way. ^_^

Though there's always the important thing to consider: as humans we are social species, and thus NEED socialization outside of the family unit. Otherwise... we tend to go kinda... cookoo. ESPECIALLY true for extroverts. Hence the necessity for extracurricular activities (in your case... wait, to JWs have Sunday Church? 'Cause that's actually a great source for such socialization).

We also interact socially. Our kids have sleepovers and such. There is no shortage of socialisation.

It's also important to remember that sheltering kids can cause MAJOR problems later in life. I, for instance, was not home schooled but still very sheltered. If you want to know just how sheltered I was, and to a degree still am, I didn't know about Jesus until I was in Middle School, and even then my primary introduction to the guy was Jesus Christ Superstar. I knew the name "God", but because I misunderstood something my parents had said, I thought it was a bad word, and thought that it referred to some King of Angels (which is what dead people become when they go to Heaven, i.e., the Sky, which made my conception of God's function much closer to a Sky God form of Hades... take that for what you will). Anyway, one result of being so sheltered is that I'm incredibly timid and have SEVERE social anxiety. I could easily, very easily, develop paranoia or anthropophobia. Doesn't help that I have asperger's syndrome, which makes me incapable of instinctively performing certain social behaviors.

I understand about sheltering. Helicopter parenting is everywhere. But it's getting harder and harder to protect our kids from the nasty side of this world.
A balance can be struck by educating them about the consequences of the dangers, especially of drug abuse and casual sex.
We can never guarantee that they will accept our standards or lifestyle, because as adults we must all make our own decisions.
The nature/nurture side of child rearing is the major determining factor in how our children turn out. You cannot expect unbalanced individuals to raise balanced children. Add autism or other mental health issues to the mix and it is doubly challenging. Alphabet kids are everywhere! ADD, ADHD, ASD, ODD etc.....

And, of course, with cyberbullying being so widespread, home schooling no longer protects kids from such abuse.

Actually, we try not to give our children mobile phones too young and numbers are given only to trusted friends.

You could try limiting their online activities, but... seriously, at this point, I'm not sure how possible that is outside an Amish or Amish-like community.

The ideal is to teach them to live IN the world without becoming corrupted by it. It's hard, but not impossible. At the end of the day, our children will make up their own minds about how to live their lives as adults. All we can hope is that we have given them sound values and that they are responsible human beings in the end. Spirituality must be nurtured or it will not serve as a moral compass in life.

They could easily grow to resent you and thus rebel HARD. As it were, when you make sex evil, you make evil sexy.

That is true. We can't force our values on them....but we can extol them and hope for the best. Having a concept of a higher power (in the form of a loving Father) who is a rewarded of good behavior helps to boost the faculty of conscience. We all have one. Consciences only work if they have been trained the right way. The more we ignore it the easier it is to go the wrong way. It is so much harder to come back from a wrong course than to see the danger and avoid it in the first place.

 

[Nietzsche]

And they wonder why so many are choosing to home school their kids.
Where has the innocence of children gone? From infancy they are fed fantasy and fairy magic....when they get a little too old for the tooth fairy they are fed violence and wicked magic with demonism thrown in via Harry Potter and such movies.
Teens are enjoying werewolves and free sex...and the adults? Well what aren't they watching?

If 1 Cor 6:9-10 applies with equal force today....God help those who have thrown yesterday's moral values away.

I remember a time when the whole family could sit down and watch a movie together, confident that there was nothing morally destructive in the content.....I wish those days would return. I loved it when all the bad words were taken out and scenes deemed to be too violent were modified or removed. Imagine what would happen today of they did that?

...

sigh

The very notion of a childhood is a concept that only dates back one and a half centuries, tops. Before that 'children' were just seen as smaller adults without any rights.

 

[fantome profane]

...

sigh

The very notion of a childhood is a concept that only dates back one and a half centuries, tops. Before that 'children' were just seen as smaller adults without any rights.

Until the became full sized adults without any rights.

 

[Nietzsche]

Are you saying that in this age of reason, technology and higher education that we have not progressed one bit? Seems not, yet you would expect, with all our knowledge, that we would have raised our standards instead of dropping them. This is hardly an age where barbarianism would be expected...and yet it's there in the world. Blood spilling is rampant even in the games we play.



So because we are no different from our ignorant, uneducated ancestors, and we have obviously not progressed in our understanding of human nature one bit, we accept all this blood lust as our primary form of entertainment....for what reason again? Can we not expect to be more civilised in this day and age? Apparently not.



What is RE? Religious Education? Religion is being removed from the education system.

I would not allow my children to watch Harry Potter movies for the simple reason that they promote magic, witchcraft and demonism. Not really suitable subject matter for children IMO. Most especially because of the graphic nature of the subject matter. When children read books in old days they were limited by their imagination...today they don't have that privilege...it it shoved in their face in all its gory detail. The stuff of nightmares.

The Bible stories are there to teach lessons. There are good guys and bad guys in there too, but at least there is a moral to the story. There was no promotion of things that God condemned.



And in those days the worst STD you got were the ones that had always existed. Then they became treatable with anti-biotics. What are we facing in the world today? AIDS is wiping out whole villages in some African countries. There are so many kids without parents because of this and many of these kids are also infected. Other diseases continue to take their toll despite the advances in medicine. Diseases that we thought we had conquered have returned, stronger than ever.

Drugs were basically unheard of until the 60's and now the problem is out of control with the ice epidemic. You really think we live in better times? Nothing has changed? Really? Ask parents how easy it is to parent these days?



In this age of technology, parents can no longer communicate with their children in the normal way. If they do it is often through a device of some sort. When communication breaks down, so does everything else. It is hard to find a kid these days who hasn't got a mobile phone in their hand.



I guess we learned nothing from the fall of Rome...did we? The most powerful empire on earth disintegrated due to its own decadence, immorality and the breakdown of the family unit. The family is the backbone of society.....sadly, today it's back is broken.

What is that old saying about being doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past???

...what wretched diploma-mill did you get your history education from? There are so many things wrong here I don't even know where to start. But I will. But I want your attention first. So this is going to be posted, and when I finish going through this...utter mess, it'll be in my next post.

 

[dgirl1986]

Since same sex marriage is legal they have now introduced into the public school system oral and anal sex education classes. What are your thoughts on this?

Here is what God says, just in case you're wondering.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

What are you even talking about?

 

[Nietzsche]

Are you saying that in this age of reason, technology and higher education that we have not progressed one bit? Seems not, yet you would expect, with all our knowledge, that we would have raised our standards instead of dropping them. This is hardly an age where barbarianism would be expected...and yet it's there in the world. Blood spilling is rampant even in the games we play.

So because we are no different from our ignorant, uneducated ancestors, and we have obviously not progressed in our understanding of human nature one bit, we accept all this blood lust as our primary form of entertainment....for what reason again? Can we not expect to be more civilised in this day and age? Apparently not.

Our taste in fiction & such have remained largely constant. The difference is that we don't actually do those things on a large-scale anymore. Your average individual in a first or second-world country rarely, if ever, joins a fighting force to go around a kill people and then rape their women. In that regard, we're far & away superior to our ancestors. But what we look for in fiction..? Fiction is harmless. Only those with preexisting problems(ones that render one less able to separate fiction from reality) are 'motivated' to rape & kill because they watched a movie or read a book.

What is RE? Religious Education? Religion is being removed from the education system.

Indeed. But it's only been successful(secularizing education) since about the 50s or so. Know something else? Wars have died down. Now, I'm not going to claim that's entirely due to secularizing education. It isn't. But I do think it is partly responsible. Because if you look at the places that still do religious indoctrination/education? They're ****-holes.

I would not allow my children to watch Harry Potter movies for the simple reason that they promote magic, witchcraft and demonism. Not really suitable subject matter for children IMO. Most especially because of the graphic nature of the subject matter. When children read books in old days they were limited by their imagination...today they don't have that privilege...it it shoved in their face in all its gory detail. The stuff of nightmares.

...I'm not even gonna touch this, and I'm going to do my best to forget you ever said it, because frankly if I follow this thread with you I'm going to end up losing any and all respect for you. So yeah. Moving on.

The Bible stories are there to teach lessons. There are good guys and bad guys in there too, but at least there is a moral to the story. There was no promotion of things that God condemned.

I wonder what the peoples' of Canaan would say to that. I'd ask them, but God commanded the Israelites to murder them & rape their women. Moving on.

And in those days the worst STD you got were the ones that had always existed. Then they became treatable with anti-biotics. What are we facing in the world today? AIDS is wiping out whole villages in some African countries. There are so many kids without parents because of this and many of these kids are also infected. Other diseases continue to take their toll despite the advances in medicine. Diseases that we thought we had conquered have returned, stronger than ever.

Anti-vaxx mouth-breathers are to blame for **** like mumps not staying dead. As far as STDs go...AIDs isn't new. At all. What happened is that it became permissible to discuss it. Which brings me to the next point..

Drugs were basically unheard of until the 60's and now the problem is out of control with the ice epidemic. You really think we live in better times? Nothing has changed? Really? Ask parents how easy it is to parent these days?

...

Opiates (roughly as old as alcohol, though at first only cultivated in East Asia)
Alcohol (literally the oldest thing humans do, no hyperbole, the oldest written anything is a recipe for Sumerian beer)
Laudanum (a mixture of the above two, first known mention of it being the 1500s)
Marijuana (3rd century BCE, south-east Asia, first known mention of it being smoked)
Chewing Coca-leaves (first documented by Europeans in 1560 or so but used for centuries prior in South America)
Tobacco (1400 BCE earliest verified use)

Those are just the ones off the top of my head. We, as a species, have been getting high for as long as we've been around. The only difference today is that we're punishing the people who just use it and we're allowed to talk about it.

In this age of technology, parents can no longer communicate with their children in the normal way. If they do it is often through a device of some sort. When communication breaks down, so does everything else. It is hard to find a kid these days who hasn't got a mobile phone in their hand.

...errr, what? Why does it matter how you talk to people? Are those deaf & blind somehow causing the breakdown of society? I don't get this one at all.

I guess we learned nothing from the fall of Rome...did we? The most powerful empire on earth disintegrated due to its own decadence, immorality and the breakdown of the family unit. The family is the backbone of society.....sadly, today it's back is broken.

...

No. Just..no. No no no no no. Again, what diploma mill did you get your history education from? Can you get the money back? Rome fell because of a myriad of reasons. "Decadence"(something stupidly overblown by Christian writers of the era) doesn't destroy Empires. War, lack of money and social unrest do.

Also, which Rome are we talking about? You're gonna need to be more precise.

What is that old saying about being doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past???

That's only true if you know anything about the past in the first place, and after going through your post I simply can't believe you do. I'm not insulting your intelligence, mind. I'm just frustrated beyond words as to how woefully ill-informed you are.