Now that the FDA has approved the vaccine has it changed your mind?

[Moonjuice]

Your first comment says it all. I'll repeat it in case you forgot you wrote it.

"I wasn't offering the most realistic solution"
​

Getting most people vaccinated is a realistic solution.

I don't disagree.

 

[Friend of Mara]

Would prefer no one die

Can I take this as "fewest"? The closest to zero we can get is through vaccination.

but the risk should be the individual persons decision.

The problem with "individual persons" is that it doesn't just affect them. There are any number of things that are regulated or outright outlawed because someone's "freedom" is putting others at risk. People who catch covid didn't go to the covid store and buy a covid infection. Someone spread that virus to them.

Wouldnt say unprecedented but more than normal and should’ve been their choice on the risk they take not the governments. In your view we might as well not drive an automobile because of the potential deaths and injuries. I don’t agree with the mandates and shut-downs. They don’t make sense to me. Many other people share my view and are sick of the government hypocrisy and attempts to control the people.

Its more akin to following traffic laws. Just because there are deaths with people having accidents following the speed limit doesn't delegitimize the fact that if people are constantly speeding it increases their risk.

Vaccines won’t do it and you’re not going to rid the earth of Covid, you’re putting yourself in a lifelong dependency on booster shots and I’m not into that. I got Covid and my immune system is
protecting me and I have other treatments to use.

Vaccines don't put you on some kind of lifelong dependency. How do you think this works? Do we have lifelong dependency on smallpox vaccines? Or polio vaccines?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Vaccines don't put you on some kind of lifelong dependency. How do you think this works? Do we have lifelong dependency on smallpox vaccines? Or polio vaccines?

Aren’t you going to need booster shots because of the variants that will continue? I mean 69 or so shots for kids by the time we are 18 is excessive and now that’s what the experts answers are, more vaccines and suppress the other solutions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Right. By and large the unvaxxed are infecting, and killing, other people who are unvaccinated.

HOWEVER, the unvaccinated...

...are also infecting vaccinated people. Is it really necessary to tell you again that the vaccines are, at best 94% effective?

...are the primary breeding ground for the virus to mutate.

...are overloading hospitals and hospital staffs. People with illnesses are dying because covid patients take all the ICU beds.

1. Some of us are-it depends if we have COVID or not, not because we're not vaccinated.

2. No. Stats and facts aren't magic mind-changers. What does that mean to me when I'm never going to take the vaccine?

3. Whosever symptoms are worse and life threatening will get the bed first.

The unvaccinated have always been at risk of infection. Nothing new no matter how much media and government emphasis it repetitively to get people to take the vaccine.

 

[Friend of Mara]

Aren’t you going to need booster shots because of the variants that will continue? I mean 69 or so shots for kids by the time we are 18 is excessive and now that’s what the experts answers are, more vaccines and suppress the other solutions.

Not necessarily. That isn't how vaccines work.

What other solutions? Get infected? Let 2.5% of the population die?

 

[Friend of Mara]

No. Stats and facts aren't magic mind-changers.

That's it. This is the thread. Boiled down into the purest form.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Not necessarily. That isn't how vaccines work.

What other solutions? Get infected? Let 2.5% of the population die?

That is how this vaccine works, that’s why you need booster shots. The push to vaccinate everybody, the divisiveness and mandates are what I’m against here.

 

[Friend of Mara]

That is how this vaccine works, that’s why you need booster shots. The push to vaccinate everybody, the divisiveness and mandates are what I’m against here.

Booster shots improve immunity but it isn't a necessary for each new strain. If there is a new virus we need a new vaccine.

The problem with the mandates are that people aren't getting vaccinated. Step one to ending the pandemic is to get 80% of people vaccinated. We are falling short of that.

***Mod edit***

 

[ElishaElijah]

Suppressed? Is saying something is ineffective,

And making it illegal to prescribe when these treatments work and have been in use for many years and approved for other uses and effective for Covid with other ingredients like Zinc. Why would they is is good question. I’m waiting for time and for people to see that the Frontline Doctors were right all along.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's it. This is the thread. Boiled down into the purest form.

Do you think they should be?

Like scripture...read it and you'd automatically be born again?

For example, should a patient take medication because science says it works or should they take meds congruent with what works with their body?

Which takes a bit of trial and error not just science?

You'd have to add more to your comment if I missed the mark

 

[Revoltingest]

And making it illegal to prescribe when these treatments work and have been in use for many years and approved for other uses and effective for Covid with other ingredients like Zinc. Why would they is is good question. I’m waiting for time and for people to see that the Frontline Doctors were right all along.

When & where was it made illegal to use zinc?
It's long been considered useful against viruses.
Ref...
Do vitamin D, zinc, and other supplements help prevent COVID-19 or hasten healing? - Harvard Health

But I caution against seeing zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D, & other
supplements as a magic bullet to replace vaccination.

 

[ecco]

1. Some of us are-it depends if we have COVID or not, not because we're not vaccinated.

Wrong #1. People are better protected with the vaccine even if they had covid. A mild case of covid may not produce the amount of antibodies needed to ward off a future infection.

2. No. Stats and facts aren't magic mind-changers. What does that mean to me when I'm never going to take the vaccine?

Wrong #2. Rational people do not ignore and reject facts and statistics, especially when it concerns their and their family's health.

3. Whoever symptoms are worse and life threatening will get the bed first.

Wrong #3.

Veteran dies of treatable illness as COVID fills hospital beds, leaving doctors "playing musical chairs" - CBS News​

When U.S. Army veteran Daniel Wilkinson started feeling sick last week, he went to the hospital in Bellville, Texas, outside Houston. His health problem wasn't related to COVID-19, but Wilkinson needed advanced care, and with the coronavirus filling up intensive care beds, he couldn't get it in time to save his life.​

 

[Friend of Mara]

And making it illegal to prescribe when these treatments work and have been in use for many years and approved for other uses and effective for Covid with other ingredients like Zinc. Why would they is is good question. I’m waiting for time and for people to see that the Frontline Doctors were right all along.

So why do you think it works when the evidence is to the contrary? Do you have some information we don't have? Or is it just a "feeling" you have?

 

[Friend of Mara]

Do you think they should be?

Like scripture...read it and you'd automatically be born again?

For example, should a patient take medication because science says it works or should they take meds congruent with what works with their body?

Which takes a bit of trial and error not just science?

You'd have to add more to your comment if I missed the mark

Just something almost cathartic about someone admitting it isn't information or logic that will convince them.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No. I believe all meds, vax, etc should be out for ten years about (so normal time frame) for some to be comfortable with possible long term affects.

Me. If my risk is higher than benefits (risk catching COVID is higher than not catching it, I'd consider it). The only way I'd take it would be by forced so I won't be homeless,in the hospital, jobless, and won't have money to pat for 10,000 worth of meds. I don't believe people forced would just be happy they gave up their support to possibility that no stat so far has calculated the risk based on location and population density (unless I overlooked. People need to assess their own risk...herd immunity would have better affect to those with constant people contact. Those around the world who do not should not loose their job over this. They can't contribute to herd immunity.

No. If I had COVID and didn't stay home that would be my fault. If not, it's all on some vax who assume people's situation because of vaccination status only.

No.

Why 10 years? Where did you come up with that number? I keep seeing certain people throw that number out, and I have no idea where it's coming from.

Do you remember when I pointed out to you that long-term effects of vaccines show up within 8 weeks after administration?

 

[Wandering Monk]

When & where was it made illegal to use zinc?
It's long been considered useful against viruses.
Ref...
Do vitamin D, zinc, and other supplements help prevent COVID-19 or hasten healing? - Harvard Health

But I caution against seeing zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D, & other
supplements as a magic bullet to replace vaccination.

Ever heard of zinc poisoning? Some people seem to think that if a little is good, a lot is better. There is a reason this is sold in such small doses over the counter

Too much zinc: Symptoms, causes, and treatments

 

[Revoltingest]

Ever heard of zinc poisoning? Some people seem to think that if a little is good, a lot is better. There is a reason this is sold in such small doses over the counter

Too much zinc: Symptoms, causes, and treatments

Even worse is zinc heated (eg, welding)
which can give one the "zinc shakes".
Metal fume fever - Wikipedia

Reminds of Amy Wong on Futurama getting "metal
fever" (carbon based fauna seeking for robot love).
A PSA about the problem....

 

[Ponder This]

I thought of having 2 no's but in the end they mean the same thing. If you don't want the vaccine because you distrust the science then you distrust the science. How would the two be different really?

Big Science & the FDA are in bed with Big Pharma & the
Democrats' plot using Covid 19 to train us to be obedient (IMO).

Disclaimer:
Sarcasm above.

To be clear, when you use science for creating real world implementations, that is called engineering - not science.

For example, science gives us Newton's Laws of Motion. Engineering gives us bridges.

For example, Science gives us Evolution. Engineering gives us vaccines.

Where as the word science sometimes connotes consensus that isn't there, the word engineering sometimes connotes conspiracy that isn't there.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Just something almost cathartic about someone admitting it isn't information or logic that will convince them.

Think about it. I go to any nuerologist I don't know and he tells me take dilantin it will save your (and others) lives

1. It's proven by science
2. Data says it works
3. There's rarely adverse side effects other than say weight gain
4. Thousands of people take it for seizures
5. Majority of them may have controlled seizures

So what.

That doctor doesn't know me. The ones who do would know THAT med won't work for me despite the data.

I'm not convinced because my doctor and I decided it's not in my best interest.

It's not the data. It's what's in my best interest. Call it selfish but I weigh taking the vaccine just as I weigh any other meds.

The difference is not all doctors know about vaccines. So no, data in itself doesn't convince me. Whether it is applicable does.

I mean I could be asymptomatic, I don't know. I didn't wake up one day with COVID. Put me in a high risk environment that would be different.

But right now all you guys are thousands of miles away from me. So, it's all opinion.

 

[Revoltingest]

To be clear, when you use science for creating real world implementations, that is called engineering - not science.

Engineering is indeed science...applied science.

For example, science gives us Newton's Laws of Motion. Engineering gives us bridges.

Bridge design is a science.

For example, Science gives us Evolution. Engineering gives us vaccines.

Where as the word science sometimes connotes consensus that isn't there, the word engineering sometimes connotes conspiracy that isn't there.

Were you correct, then U of Mich got it wrong with a
couple degrees in "Science, Mechanical Engineering".
Nah, they got it right.