Nowhere in the Bible does it say or infer that mary the Mother of Christ...

[Catholicus]

That's kind of funny. Don't you even know what an atheist is? I have a LACK of belief, so there are no beliefs that I am attempting to justify. All I'm doing is waiting for those who claim that a god exists to provide something close to verifiable evidence. It's been 57 years now and no believer has come even close.

No, you have a fanatical belief that God does NOT exist. That belief masquerades as rational impartiality.

And is contrary to the evidence - which is that the universe, yourself included, exists.

If God didn't create it, Chance did.

Which is a very far-fetched and unscientific explanation.

 

[Catholicus]

HOW DO THEY "DISPLAY" ORIGINAL SIN?

It wasn't christian doctrine until 300 AD.

It wasn't formally stated Christian doctrine until 300 AD.

It was always Christian belief - otherwise why the need for Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the Cross ?

 

[Catholicus]

You seem to have missed my point. If original sin is a predisposition towards sinfulness, rather than actual sin, I can't see why having that predisposition would be incompatible with God-made-man being borne by her.

In practice, the predisposition always results in actual sin.

 

[Catholicus]

because the genre of the gospels is mythic in nature. That's the literary analysis. Doesn't mean that it's not true, but it is a larger-than-life account. The truth lies, not in its historical veracity, but in its metaphor.

It is clearly stated AS historical veracity.

E.g. either the miracle of the loaves and fishes did take place or it did not.

Either way, it isn't mere metaphor.

 

[sooda]

It wasn't formally stated Christian doctrine until 300 AD.

It was always Christian belief - otherwise why the need for Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the Cross ?

How do you know that?

The Bible says that God wanted a repentant heart NOT sacrifice.. Do you think the scapegoat notion of the pagan Azazel were very primitive?

Further, the bible says that the sins of the father are not visited on the son/.. although it changes its mind five times

 

[sooda]

It is clearly stated AS historical veracity.

E.g. either the miracle of the loaves and fishes did take place or it did not.

Either way, it isn't mere metaphor.

Look at the metaphors for water and food throughout the Bible.

 

[sojourner]

Reason cannot provide a system of ethics. You have to rely on ideologies - unfounded or otherwise - to do that.

What is equitable is reasonable.

 

[sojourner]

It is clearly stated AS historical veracity.

E.g. either the miracle of the loaves and fishes did take place or it did not.

Either way, it isn't mere metaphor.

No, I'm afraid it isn't stated that way. That's the way YOU understand it; the ancient writers understood myth differently. They made extensive use of metaphor in order to state truths that were foundational.

 

[metis]

Reason cannot provide a system of ethics. You have to rely on ideologies - unfounded or otherwise - to do that.

I definitely believe the Holy Spirit can help as well through prayer and meditation with contemplation on what we then may feel is morally right.

 

[Catholicus]

How do you know that?

The Bible says that God wanted a repentant heart NOT sacrifice.. Do you think the scapegoat notion of the pagan Azazel were very primitive?

Further, the bible says that the sins of the father are not visited on the son/.. although it changes its mind five times

Scapegoating is a universal fact among human beings - only Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross (and thus Christianity) has brought scapegoating to an end.

The sins of the fathers are not visited spiritually upon their descendants - but they are from a practical viewpoint. Those who died in the trenches of World War I were paying for the corruption and apostasy of the Western world during the previous half-century or so (the perpetrators of which died in their beds).

It was always Christian belief that Jesus Christ died for our sins. Those sins clearly show a terrible tendency in us towards sin - that tendency is called original sin by theologians.

 

[exchemist]

In practice, the predisposition always results in actual sin.

That implies Mary would have sinned if she had not been specially made incapable of it, thus depriving her of any virtue in the matter.

 

[metis]

Scapegoating is a universal fact among human beings - only Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross (and thus Christianity) has brought scapegoating to an end.

The sins of the fathers are not visited spiritually upon their descendants - but they are from a practical viewpoint. Those who died in the trenches of World War I were paying for the corruption and apostasy of the Western world during the previous half-century or so (the perpetrators of which died in their beds).

It was always Christian belief that Jesus Christ died for our sins. Those sins clearly show a terrible tendency in us towards sin - that tendency is called original sin by theologians.

The concepts of Jesus being a "sacrifice" for our "original sin" has long been contentious if one attempts to apply it literally. It really doesn't make much sense if taken objectively. However, taken at the symbolic level (i.e. "essence"), it can very much make sense. I can explain, if you wish, but right now I have to leave until later in the day.

Take care.

 

[Catholicus]

That implies Mary would have sinned if she had not been specially made incapable of it, thus depriving her of any virtue in the matter.

The decision that Mary should be sinless was entirely God's.

 

[The Anointed]

The decision that Mary should be sinless was entirely God's.

I thought that the scriptures stated that we all have sinned and that Christ was the only one to have been sinless, please reveal where the scriptures state that Mary the mother of the man Jesus and his brothers, was sinless?

 

[Catholicus]

Look at the metaphors for water and food throughout the Bible.

The Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes is a carefully-narrated event, not metaphor.

 

[Catholicus]

I thought that the scriptures stated that we all have sinned and that Christ was the only one to have been sinless, please reveal where the scriptures state that Mary the mother of the man Jesus and his brothers, was sinless?

It isn't stated, merely implied.

Where is the doctrine of the Trinity stated explicitly in Scripture ?

Mary's sinlessness is, however, stated by Catholic doctrine - which has equal divine authority as Scripture has.

 

[Catholicus]

I definitely believe the Holy Spirit can help as well through prayer and meditation with contemplation on what we then may feel is morally right.

People claiming to be guided by he Holy Spirit often reach diametrically opposed conclusions.

Which is why a visible teaching Church with Divine Authority is needed.

 

[Catholicus]

What is equitable is reasonable.

Yes, but what is equitable ?

Regarding the Abortion issue, for example.

 

[Catholicus]

No, I'm afraid it isn't stated that way. That's the way YOU understand it; the ancient writers understood myth differently. They made extensive use of metaphor in order to state truths that were foundational.

The Gospels state the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes as exactly-narrated event, not as metaphor.

 

[sojourner]

Yes, but what is equitable ?

Regarding the Abortion issue, for example.

It is equitable to allow women to have sovereignty over their bodies, without religious bias. Not all expecting mothers are xtian. It is equitable to not assume we know for sure when life begins, and there's plenty of biblical evidence for Xtians to think that life begins at first breath, as in Genesis. It's reasonable to realize that people are going to abort fetuses whether it's legal or not, so, not knowing for sure about when life begins, it's reasonable to keep abortion legal and safe, and to protect the lives we do know about -- those of the mothers.