Druidus
Keeper of the Grove
(I know that this is long, so in the second post, I've bolded the most essential part, so that people can still answer the question if they don't want to read it all.)
I was recently talking to some friends about a television show franchise I deeply enjoy, Stargate (all three TV series, plus the movies, but not the terrible video games). Somehow the topic got around to nudity, perhaps because the pilot for the first of the series, SG1, has one full frontal nude scene in it. It was going to premier on Showtime, and Showtime pushed for them to include the nude scene, even though, AFAIK, the rest of the episodes in that series don't have any full nudity (can't even recall topless, so maybe none) - though I am only near the end of season five. I've seen all of Stargate: Universe, and it has one or two nude scenes, and Stargate: Atlantis might have one or two as well, it's been a while since I've seen that one.
Anyway, so in the Stargate SG1 pilot movie, there is a scene where an alien (Goa'uld, a type of parasite that looks like a leech/snake hybrid - they take over the bodies of other [usually] sentient species) is about to attack or "possess" a female human. The actress is nude and is seen from a full frontal angle. I can only assume that since Showtime was pushing for it, the writers thought that it could be used to indicate/symbolize our powerlessness/helplessness/vulnerability and drive home the point that we are simply prey and mean nothing to the Goa'uld. It certainly accomplishes that, as if it weren't for the fact that you know it's an alien, it might almost appear to be a rape about to happen. The Goa'uld is clearly menacing, and holds all the cards, while the poor woman is terrified and bare before his might (it's a less than sixty second scene).
So in the discussion with my friends, once we got around to the topic of nudity in the Stargate franchise, and after talking about that SG1 pilot nude scene, one of us asked why nudity would be so rare in a show like this; why include it 1-3 times per individual series rather than more often (especially since there are a number of times when not being naked actually causes the show to lose realism and inconsistencies in plot/flow - when, indeed, it would make far more sense for a character to be seen naked and would improve/enhance the plot development), especially after moving to HBO.
Another of my friends replied that it was because the creators and writers of the show wanted it to be a "Family Friendly Show", nothing more than PG-13 (at most, I believe almost all episodes of at least SG1 are “For all ages.”
, so that children could watch it with their parents, or perhaps even alone. He suggested that because of this, it was necessary to exclude any sexualized nudity, for sure, and extremely limit even non-sexualized nudity.
Here's where it sticks in my craw, though. This show has far worse than nudity. Examples (some are specific to an individual series, but most are in each):
(Before reading, note that it is not my intention here to trash the Stargate shows. I thoroughly enjoyed all of them very much, having seen every episode except for half of SG1. The following list is for my later argument.)
* Gratuitous violence: graphic beheadings, thousands of grisly deaths and/or murders/mass-murders, frequent execution of unarmed innocents, severe beatings, repeated suicides in many varied ways, death by explosion, death by suffocation, death by violent decompression, death by crushing, half of someone's head being sliced off (showing gore/brain), amputations, death by fire, death by rapid or slow disintegration (atoms of the body ripped apart), cannibalism, and it goes even further than this in the violence category.
Admittedly, most of the time, there’s little blood (energy weapons cauterize), or you don’t get to see all of it, but there’re enough times that you see graphical and gratuitous violence to balance out the parts where you don’t. And to be fair, there is significantly less of this in SG1 (where the violence is still there, but less graphic/gratuitous) , compared to the other two. SG: Universe is probably the most graphically violent (but is still only PG-13/PG-14 at most).
* Torture: Medical procedures on conscious and aware (unwilling) subjects. Traditional and esoteric torture methods (relatively often and in many different ways). Vivid depictions of psychological torture (at least several times a season, but can be much more frequent in some). Psychopathic torture of a pregnant woman. Interrogation using heinous forms of torture. Characters attaining sadistic pleasure from the pain of innocents/others. Torture of a child. Etc.
* Atrocities: Genocide, total biocide, xenocide, abominable and reprehensible biological weapons, vivid (sometimes disturbing) depictions of the horrors of varying forms of slavery, etc.
*Occasionally graphic gore, like decaying bodies, intestines ripped out, heads exploding in showers of giblets, occasional blood (if it’s there, it’s probably a lot, but usually the weapons used cauterize wounds), Goa'uld entry "wounds' gaping open (usually in the abdomen, showing insides), etc.
Not to mention the moral dissonance (whether known by the characters or just by the viewer/s):
The heroes can be seen on many occasions holding an attitude of moral superiority (at least on the show and in their minds, even if not to the viewer’s mind) while committing incredibly morally/ethically ambiguous, and occasionally downright abhorrent acts (left out, in full detail, to avoid spoilers). They are in the habit of not even recognizing the moral implications of these actions, simply ignoring/hand-waving them away, or being absolute hypocrites without batting an eye.
For example: Main characters (protagonists/heroes) erasing the memory of an enemy (who had no choice in the matter), brainwashing him/her/it, and trying to genetically modify him/her/it in order to turn it to their side – destroying everything he/she/it once was and creating a monster who hates everyone else almost as much as he/she/it subconsciously hates itself (the fact that only ONE character [out of dozens] seems to give even the tiniest damn about the ethical implications of this, and even she doesn’t stand up against it in any way, is just horrifying – no one really understands how wrong what they’re doing is).
This after experiencing such tactics against themselves and being outraged. "Meh, it's cool for US to do it. Just not our enemies! Even though they really didn't choose to be our enemies and are only doing what they need to survive!"
All of those events/actions, while potentially making for entertaining episodes of a TV show, would be absolutely terrible in real life.
So, there you have a large list of those horrendous things that are seen on this one “Family Friendly” show. All of those things are a-ok, but nudity? Verboten.
My question is why? Why is nudity seen as so dangerous; why is it denigrated so d*** much? It’s how we’re born; how we evolved! Why would it be so deplorable for a child (or an adult) to see a naked body, when all of the abominations in the list above are completely cool/acceptable? Why is nudity somehow seen as worse than violence, death, torture, gore, atrocities, etc.? I truly don’t get it, it makes no sense to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying kids should be watching straight up highly sexualized nudity (otherwise known as porn ). That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m just commenting and wondering on why people seem to think that it’s such an atrocious thing for a child/pre-teen/young teen to see a naked body (not having sex, just naked) - and why some adults see it as being similarly immoral for themselves, too?
Why is it that in our "western" culture, at least in general (I know of a few exceptions, and I’m sure there’re more), society is able to tolerate violence and cruelty in a myriad different forms and to the nth level of intensity being witnessed by young people, and, yet, something wholly natural, something so inherently and completely innocuous as the human body, is seen as morally disruptive (especially to developing minds, but also to a degree even for adults) and potentially dangerous (either to mental, emotional, or "moral" health)?
Go try out that violence, see how long it takes until you’re in jail, in an asylum, or dead. Behavior that would be sickening, intolerable, and psychopathic in real life is just fine on a screen. But being naked on a screen, something that hurts no one in real life, is just unacceptable; inexplicably (IMO) infuriating many people and often causing an outcry; a wave of moral panic/outrage (I’ve seen people act up and call for shows to be banned or cancelled because of a few instances of nudity (not porn), or even a single one, in some cases! Oh, please, won’t somebody think of the children! Yes, of course they don't usually succeed, but why does it get to them so much in the first place?).
Why does it matter? Why do SO many people care that much about something so trivial and innately harmless as our own bodies, especially when compared to rampant depictions of things that would be considered vile, nefarious and egregious acts, were they committed by someone in real life?
I was recently talking to some friends about a television show franchise I deeply enjoy, Stargate (all three TV series, plus the movies, but not the terrible video games). Somehow the topic got around to nudity, perhaps because the pilot for the first of the series, SG1, has one full frontal nude scene in it. It was going to premier on Showtime, and Showtime pushed for them to include the nude scene, even though, AFAIK, the rest of the episodes in that series don't have any full nudity (can't even recall topless, so maybe none) - though I am only near the end of season five. I've seen all of Stargate: Universe, and it has one or two nude scenes, and Stargate: Atlantis might have one or two as well, it's been a while since I've seen that one.
Anyway, so in the Stargate SG1 pilot movie, there is a scene where an alien (Goa'uld, a type of parasite that looks like a leech/snake hybrid - they take over the bodies of other [usually] sentient species) is about to attack or "possess" a female human. The actress is nude and is seen from a full frontal angle. I can only assume that since Showtime was pushing for it, the writers thought that it could be used to indicate/symbolize our powerlessness/helplessness/vulnerability and drive home the point that we are simply prey and mean nothing to the Goa'uld. It certainly accomplishes that, as if it weren't for the fact that you know it's an alien, it might almost appear to be a rape about to happen. The Goa'uld is clearly menacing, and holds all the cards, while the poor woman is terrified and bare before his might (it's a less than sixty second scene).
So in the discussion with my friends, once we got around to the topic of nudity in the Stargate franchise, and after talking about that SG1 pilot nude scene, one of us asked why nudity would be so rare in a show like this; why include it 1-3 times per individual series rather than more often (especially since there are a number of times when not being naked actually causes the show to lose realism and inconsistencies in plot/flow - when, indeed, it would make far more sense for a character to be seen naked and would improve/enhance the plot development), especially after moving to HBO.
Another of my friends replied that it was because the creators and writers of the show wanted it to be a "Family Friendly Show", nothing more than PG-13 (at most, I believe almost all episodes of at least SG1 are “For all ages.”
, so that children could watch it with their parents, or perhaps even alone. He suggested that because of this, it was necessary to exclude any sexualized nudity, for sure, and extremely limit even non-sexualized nudity.Here's where it sticks in my craw, though. This show has far worse than nudity. Examples (some are specific to an individual series, but most are in each):
(Before reading, note that it is not my intention here to trash the Stargate shows. I thoroughly enjoyed all of them very much, having seen every episode except for half of SG1. The following list is for my later argument.)
* Gratuitous violence: graphic beheadings, thousands of grisly deaths and/or murders/mass-murders, frequent execution of unarmed innocents, severe beatings, repeated suicides in many varied ways, death by explosion, death by suffocation, death by violent decompression, death by crushing, half of someone's head being sliced off (showing gore/brain), amputations, death by fire, death by rapid or slow disintegration (atoms of the body ripped apart), cannibalism, and it goes even further than this in the violence category.
Admittedly, most of the time, there’s little blood (energy weapons cauterize), or you don’t get to see all of it, but there’re enough times that you see graphical and gratuitous violence to balance out the parts where you don’t. And to be fair, there is significantly less of this in SG1 (where the violence is still there, but less graphic/gratuitous) , compared to the other two. SG: Universe is probably the most graphically violent (but is still only PG-13/PG-14 at most).
* Torture: Medical procedures on conscious and aware (unwilling) subjects. Traditional and esoteric torture methods (relatively often and in many different ways). Vivid depictions of psychological torture (at least several times a season, but can be much more frequent in some). Psychopathic torture of a pregnant woman. Interrogation using heinous forms of torture. Characters attaining sadistic pleasure from the pain of innocents/others. Torture of a child. Etc.
* Atrocities: Genocide, total biocide, xenocide, abominable and reprehensible biological weapons, vivid (sometimes disturbing) depictions of the horrors of varying forms of slavery, etc.
*Occasionally graphic gore, like decaying bodies, intestines ripped out, heads exploding in showers of giblets, occasional blood (if it’s there, it’s probably a lot, but usually the weapons used cauterize wounds), Goa'uld entry "wounds' gaping open (usually in the abdomen, showing insides), etc.
Not to mention the moral dissonance (whether known by the characters or just by the viewer/s):
The heroes can be seen on many occasions holding an attitude of moral superiority (at least on the show and in their minds, even if not to the viewer’s mind) while committing incredibly morally/ethically ambiguous, and occasionally downright abhorrent acts (left out, in full detail, to avoid spoilers). They are in the habit of not even recognizing the moral implications of these actions, simply ignoring/hand-waving them away, or being absolute hypocrites without batting an eye.
For example: Main characters (protagonists/heroes) erasing the memory of an enemy (who had no choice in the matter), brainwashing him/her/it, and trying to genetically modify him/her/it in order to turn it to their side – destroying everything he/she/it once was and creating a monster who hates everyone else almost as much as he/she/it subconsciously hates itself (the fact that only ONE character [out of dozens] seems to give even the tiniest damn about the ethical implications of this, and even she doesn’t stand up against it in any way, is just horrifying – no one really understands how wrong what they’re doing is).
This after experiencing such tactics against themselves and being outraged. "Meh, it's cool for US to do it. Just not our enemies! Even though they really didn't choose to be our enemies and are only doing what they need to survive!"
All of those events/actions, while potentially making for entertaining episodes of a TV show, would be absolutely terrible in real life.
So, there you have a large list of those horrendous things that are seen on this one “Family Friendly” show. All of those things are a-ok, but nudity? Verboten.
My question is why? Why is nudity seen as so dangerous; why is it denigrated so d*** much? It’s how we’re born; how we evolved! Why would it be so deplorable for a child (or an adult) to see a naked body, when all of the abominations in the list above are completely cool/acceptable? Why is nudity somehow seen as worse than violence, death, torture, gore, atrocities, etc.? I truly don’t get it, it makes no sense to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying kids should be watching straight up highly sexualized nudity (otherwise known as porn
). That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m just commenting and wondering on why people seem to think that it’s such an atrocious thing for a child/pre-teen/young teen to see a naked body (not having sex, just naked) - and why some adults see it as being similarly immoral for themselves, too? Why is it that in our "western" culture, at least in general (I know of a few exceptions, and I’m sure there’re more), society is able to tolerate violence and cruelty in a myriad different forms and to the nth level of intensity being witnessed by young people, and, yet, something wholly natural, something so inherently and completely innocuous as the human body, is seen as morally disruptive (especially to developing minds, but also to a degree even for adults) and potentially dangerous (either to mental, emotional, or "moral" health)?
Go try out that violence, see how long it takes until you’re in jail, in an asylum, or dead. Behavior that would be sickening, intolerable, and psychopathic in real life is just fine on a screen. But being naked on a screen, something that hurts no one in real life, is just unacceptable; inexplicably (IMO) infuriating many people and often causing an outcry; a wave of moral panic/outrage (I’ve seen people act up and call for shows to be banned or cancelled because of a few instances of nudity (not porn), or even a single one, in some cases! Oh, please, won’t somebody think of the children!
Yes, of course they don't usually succeed, but why does it get to them so much in the first place?). Why does it matter? Why do SO many people care that much about something so trivial and innately harmless as our own bodies, especially when compared to rampant depictions of things that would be considered vile, nefarious and egregious acts, were they committed by someone in real life?
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