Nudity and/or Sexualized Nudity - Dangerous? Immoral? Taboo?

[The Sum of Awe]

Western society can't reconcile its views on sexuality in a non-contradictory way. Families are good, but the methods of making them are bad. Thou shalt not kill, but it's okay to watch violent movies.

We're all lost.

It's the western concept of "out of sight, out of mind." Wishing to personalize common things, yet publicize personal things.

I wouldn't be surprised if it all started with some guy who couldn't stop getting stiff every time he passed a girl, and kept getting embarrassed.

 

[Druidus]

No "unless". It just will. Whatever comes after that will either be extremely nihilistic and antinatalistic or (hopefully) sexually positive.

I see. That's interesting. Do you discount the possibility of antinatalism combined with sexual positivism? Because, IMO, the Earth is FAR too overpopulated right now, and will only get worse in the future. Nihilism should be avoided, of course, but if this shift results in a strong reduction of birth rate with an increase in positive sexual views, then I think that's all the better.

I would hope such a trend could eventually bring us to a cultural sexual and doctrinal/ideological liberation. I can't believe we could manage such a thing anytime in the short to medium term successfully unless we lower our birth rates drastically.

Violence and sex do not provoke anger and arousal in children. They provoke curiosity, which is why children play doctor and bring knives and guns to school.

Your generalizing is masking the issue.

I agree, they do cause curiosity. But, as well, violent experiences/stimuli, depending on a number of variables, can cause other long lasting effects on the brain besides anger. It ha the potential to be devastating. But again, that would depend on a number of variables.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I try to be. Thanks for noticing!

Hahaha. No problem.

You're certainly right. I'm a writer, though, and I just zipped along writing that, not realizing how long I was making it until after I posted it. Like I said, I'm a little sleep-deprived at the moment, so I just lost track of length.

It's no problem at all. I'll get around to reading it all eventually. Lol.

Awesome, it's good to see some people see "the light" on this.

Yeah. There's a few of us out there.

[quote[That's terrible, I feel for you. I had similar experiences, though it wasn't because of my dad for me, but because I was a computer whiz at a young age, and I got a laptop at a very young age. The internet was wide open for me, even its darkest recesses. If you ever want to talk about that guilt/self-hatred, I'm here. I know we just met, but still, the offer's open anytime you want to take it.

That's very sweet of you. I'll remember that. A lot of my problems have to do with severe depression now. I'm better at not feeling guilty over such things anymore. It was horrible in my teenage years, though. But I've grown up a lot.

Wow, you too with Ogrish? I did the same thing, and I, like you, still get flashes of images I'd seen back then occasionally. Not all the time, not pervasively, but when it happens, it can be troubling.

Yeah. I still go to those sorts of sites sometimes because I can handle it better, but some things I can't really handle like stuff involving children or animals. As nasty as it is, it is part of reality so I feel a need to know about it. But I'm not the type who makes cruel jokes about it or anything. I realize that it could easily be me or a loved one.

Hmm... I wonder if it has to do with the Christians that sailed west to North America in particular? Because I know even up here in Canada, we have a lot of people like that, depending on where in Canada you are. Still, I'd say we have it slightly better than the U.S., regarding attitudes towards nudity and sexuality.

I'm not really sure. America has somewhat of a unique religious environment and religion has turned into a business here, as with everything else. First it was the Puritans, and then we were influenced by anti-sex Victorian attitudes, such as with John Harvey Kellogg. Then with the growth of conservative, fundamentalist Christianity, it hasn't made things better. Europe and Canada are largely secularized, so you guys don't have as much of a problem with this stuff.

 

[Druidus]

That's very sweet of you. I'll remember that. A lot of my problems have to do with severe depression now. I'm better at not feeling guilty over such things anymore. It was horrible in my teenage years, though. But I've grown up a lot.

I'm sorry to hear that; I've dealt with depression and anxiety in the past myself. Still do, a lot of the time, really. But, like you, it's a lot better now than it used to be.

Yeah. I still go to those sorts of sites sometimes because I can handle it better, but some things I can't really handle like stuff involving children or animals. As nasty as it is, it is part of reality so I feel a need to know about it. But I'm not the type who makes cruel jokes about it or anything. I realize that it could easily be me or a loved one.

I think I can understand that: "t is a part of reality so I feel a need to know about it." That's something I could see myself doing. Luckily, for me, I avoid those sites, these days. But, if that's what you really want to be doing, go ahead and look there, I, for one, am not going to think any less of you, that's for sure. But are you sure you enjoy it? Or is it out of a sense of duty, to yourself, or to something else?

I'm not really sure. America has somewhat of a unique religious environment and religion has turned into a business here, as with everything else. First it was the Puritans, and then we were influenced by anti-sex Victorian attitudes, such as with John Harvey Kellogg. Then with the growth of conservative, fundamentalist Christianity, it hasn't made things better. Europe and Canada are largely secularized, so you guys don't have as much of a problem with this stuff.

Lol, I wouldn't be so sure we're all that secular. We've got plenty of strong theist populations. Maybe not in the same way you do, but we do. Not like your fundies, for sure. Plus for the last ~10 years we've been going through our "George W. Bush" in the form of Stephen Harper. Trying to turn Canada into "America Lite!"

Ugh...

Ontario and B.C. are pretty secular. I'd say anywhere else, most of the people are theists and tend to (though not always) vote according to theistic stances on various issues.

Still though, you're right, we don't have it quite as bad.

 

[kashmir]

If we are all just animals, why does the human species view nudity the way it does?
We all know what everyone has anyway.

Nudist colonies claim to have less violence/crime and it sort of seems true.
Sort of hard to be stealing stuff, when one has no pockets.
kind of hard to have gang fights if everyone is naked

If these people are so used to nudity, then desires are gone and they can see the person for who they really are, on the inside.

Regardless of a persons outside, if shame is removed and they don't even care what others think of their physical flaws, it opens the doors to healthy relationships.
Like the saying goes, if one cant love themselves for who they are, no one else can either, or something like that.

makes perfect sense too.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm sorry to hear that; I've dealt with depression and anxiety in the past myself. Still do, a lot of the time, really. But, like you, it's a lot better now than it used to be.

That's good. It certainly is a journey to get over those things. But we'll get there.

I think I can understand that: "t is a part of reality so I feel a need to know about it." That's something I could see myself doing. Luckily, for me, I avoid those sites, these days. But, if that's what you really want to be doing, go ahead and look there, I, for one, am not going to think any less of you, that's for sure. But are you sure you enjoy it? Or is it out of a sense of duty, to yourself, or to something else?

Honestly, my interests are rather morbid. I'm very interested in "dark" things. I like to study abnormal psychology, serial killers, mass murderers, deviance, pathology, forensics as well as anatomy, etc. I'm fascinated by death and the human body. It makes me think about the nature of life, death and humanity.

Lol, I wouldn't be so sure we're all that secular. We've got plenty of strong theist populations. Maybe not in the same way you do, but we do. Not like your fundies, for sure. Plus for the last ~10 years we've been going through our "George W. Bush" in the form of Stephen Harper. Trying to turn Canada into "America Lite!"

Ugh...

Ontario and B.C. are pretty secular. I'd say anywhere else, most of the people are theists and tend to (though not always) vote according to theistic stances on various issues.

Still though, you're right, we don't have it quite as bad.

Hahaha. Yeah, dude, I know how it is in Canada. I've had Canadian friends. One of my friends would call Harper a "robot in a sweater". Lol. You're lucky, though, because your right-wing isn't as loony as the American right.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

What good could there be gained by showing a kid a stranger's disgusting junk? I do not want my kids looking at a stranger's junk. Why the hell would think that is healthy?

You don't have kids, do you?

 

[kashmir]

What good could there be gained by showing a kid a stranger's disgusting junk? I do not want my kids looking at a stranger's junk. Why the hell would think that is healthy?

You don't have kids, do you?

I agree 100%
But in nudists world view, its natural and not a one of them sees it as we do.

Some countries don't view a woman being topless as we do in the USA.

Look at tribes that make clothing out of straw or w/e, have a piece of hollow tree to cover their penis.
Not a one of them view it as we would, testicles are clearly visible to everyone.

Joke:
whats someone new to a nudist colony and someone who is trying to quit smoking , have in common?

Neither know what to do with their hands or where to put them...
baa tumm tishhh...

How do you tell the blind guy at a nudist colony?
"it isnt hard"

How do you tell ronald mcdonald at a nudist colony?
by hims sesame seed buns

ok, I am done now

 

[Druidus]

What good could there be gained by showing a kid a stranger's disgusting junk? I do not want my kids looking at a stranger's junk. Why the hell would think that is healthy?

You don't have kids, do you?

You're missing the point. It's not about going out and purposefully showing porn to kids or people in general at all! If that's what you think it is, then sure, I agree, what good can come of it?

It's about being comfortable with the human body. If a kid DOES see someone naked, why care? We evolved that way. For millions of years, we were naked. We only started wearing clothes less than 200,000 years ago. We were alread recognizably and anatomically pretty much exactly as we are today 200,000 or more years ago. So clearly, it seems to have worked out fine before.

I'm not trying to go door to door and show porn to kids or something, jeeze... I'm just trying to say that we're all human, and seeing a human body is just seeing a human body. Why do you have to inject shame and "disgust" into that? I would never call your body disgusting, no matter who you were, or what you looked like. Nor would I call any other's body disgusting.

It's a human body. It does not deserve to be mocked. The person who owns it does not deserve to be shamed. Just because you grew up in one sort of culture doesn't mean that every other culture needs to follow your culture's set of rules so that your sensibilities aren't disturbed. I feel sorry that you can only think in that way, but if that's all you can do, that's all you can do. I do not judge you for it. You are what you are. Clearly, the experiences in your past have shaped you to hold the beliefs you hold now, the same as mine has done for me. Why would you assume, without even knowing me, that my way is not as valid as yours? All I ask is that you do not judge me, as I would never presume to judge you. My only "crime" is believing that the human body is a wonderful thing, something to be celebrated, not something to fear! Not something to live in dread of seeing, or having my child see. Open your eyes, there're people far more different from you than you know, in many cultures all around the world, and always have been - just because they're different doesn't mean you have to automatically scoff at them and assume the worst. Just because they don't follow the same social rules you do does not make them any less human, and its saddening that you would judge me based on something as trivial as that. (I hope I'm wrong and you haven't.)

I'm not a "nudist". I just don't think there needs to be any shame caused by being nude, in one's own body, wearing one's own skin, or seeing the body of another, and their own skin. Why should there be? What good can come of that? Why the hell would you think that would be healthy? *wink - no offence*


I sincerely hope you understand; because I'm not trying to attack you. I just hope you're not so closed-minded as to think that just because I believe something different that I'm some sort of sub-human, immoral, or crazy. I don't think you are any of those, and you believe something different than I do.

I accept you, for what you are, and for what you believe. Tell me, though, seriously, answer this question: Why is the human body "disgusting" to you? Why do you feel that way, from your point of view? I'm not going to mock what you have to say on it, don't worry about that. I just want to understand you, as I wish you would try to do for me.

Can't we just get along and try to understand each other? Share ideas? Grow as human beings? Without having knee-jerk reactions towards each other because of differences in cultural belief about the necessity of clothing or the "inherent shame" of nudity and/or the "disgust" it "should" cause? I know I can. I'm perfectly willing. But you'll have to get over the idea that just because I don't conform to your ideal wherein I should be ashamed of my body, and fearful of seeing someone else's "disgusting junk" (or worse, that I should have to impart those beliefs into my child), that I'm somehow "wrong" to not think your way.

I hope you can, because I have absolutely nothing against you.

Thou art God, PLUR, Much Love!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Druidus is right. Humans only started wearing clothes when we started living in colder climates. It was just for survival purposes then. The tribal people who stayed around the equator, where it's very hot, stayed nude or mostly nude. When Europeans came into contact with those people, they forced them into wearing European clothes and made them feel shame over their nudity. Some of the imperialists later regretted what they did to the native peoples and said they were as innocent as Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and that the Europeans made them sinful.

 

[Druidus]

Druidus is right. Humans only started wearing clothes when we started living in colder climates. It was just for survival purposes then. The tribal people who stayed around the equator, where it's very hot, stayed nude or mostly nude. When Europeans came into contact with those people, they forced them into wearing European clothes and made them feel shame over their nudity. Some of the imperialists later regretted what they did to the native peoples and said they were as innocent as Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and that the Europeans made them sinful.

Thanks for the support, much appreciated! I really just don't get why people think the human body is something to revile, or that parts of it are to be considered disgusting. In my mind that's unhealthy. Why defile ourselves, or others, with some sense of shame that's only ever caused people pain?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thanks for the support, much appreciated! I really just don't get why people think the human body is something to revile, or that parts of it are to be considered disgusting. In my mind that's unhealthy. Why defile ourselves, or others, with some sense of shame that's only ever caused people pain?

It's because they've been socialized to feel that way. America is very bodyphobic and sexphobic. The Europeans have largely gotten over it. The only places more extreme than America when it comes to hatred of the human body are Islamic states and maybe really conservative, authoritarian countries like China and North Korea. But Europeans have a carefree attitude towards it and the remaining tribal cultures still go nude. Of course, Catholic cultures are well-known for their saucy celebrations before the beginning of Lent, such as Rio's world famous Carnival and New Orleans' Mardi Gras, where nudity is abundant. (Actually, the first thing you see when you search "Rio Carnival" on Google Image with Safe Search turned off is some beautiful ladies, mostly nude, in colorful native costume. )

 

[Druidus]

It's because they've been socialized to feel that way. America is very bodyphobic and sexphobic. The Europeans have largely gotten over it. The only places more extreme than America when it comes to hatred of the human body are Islamic states and maybe really conservative, authoritarian countries like China and North Korea. But Europeans have a carefree attitude towards it and the remaining tribal cultures still go nude. Of course, Catholic cultures are well-known for their saucy celebrations before the beginning of Lent, such as Rio's world famous Carnival and New Orleans' Mardi Gras, where nudity is abundant. (Actually, the first thing you see when you search "Rio Carnival" on Google Image with Safe Search turned off is some beautiful ladies, mostly nude, in colorful native costume. )

Lol, yeah, I guess I get it, in that regard, I just don't understand why someone would allow their socialization to dictate their moral/ethical (amongst other types of) beliefs so strongly. Well, I guess I can even understand that a bit. I suppose you'd have had to have explored and experienced what I've explored and experienced to come to the same conclusions. That's why I can't judge others for such things.


And lol, my grandparents are Catholic, and you damn well won't see them at Rio Carnival.

EDIT: I'm glad I live in Canada, then, at any rate.

 

[kashmir]

Wondering what the US media would use to sell stuff if nudity and sexuality was natural and accepted.

Seriously, we cant even make a Doritos commercial without adding sex to it.
Perhaps then, they would have to actually discuss the products themselves?
Lord forbid we should do that, lol

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Lol, yeah, I guess I get it, in that regard, I just don't understand why someone would allow their socialization to dictate their moral/ethical (amongst other types of) beliefs so strongly. Well, I guess I can even understand that a bit. I suppose you'd have had to have explored and experienced what I've explored and experienced to come to the same conclusions. That's why I can't judge others for such things.

Yeah, some people just can't help it. It's sad, really. They're not exposed to much else.

And lol, my grandparents are Catholic, and you damn well won't see them at Rio Carnival.

Lol. Catholic culture is a bit saucier in places that were former colonies and in Southern Europe. A lot of it is because Catholicism mixed with the native practices of those areas, making it more vibrant.

EDIT: I'm glad I live in Canada, then, at any rate.

Well, Canada is certainly a beautiful country.

Americans do have naughty celebrations, though. We have LGBT Pride Parades were are very sexually charged and have nudity and other festivals like that. Of course, black Americans came up with jazz, rock music, etc. which are very sexual and go against the general stuffiness of mainstream American culture. So we're not all stiffs.

 

[Druidus]

Wondering what the US media would use to sell stuff if nudity and sexuality was natural and accepted.

Seriously, we cant even make a Doritos commercial without adding sex to it.
Perhaps then, they would have to actually discuss the products themselves?
Lord forbid we should do that, lol

:clap

Nice!

 

[Valjean]

What good could there be gained by showing a kid a stranger's disgusting junk? I do not want my kids looking at a stranger's junk. Why the hell would think that is healthy?

You don't have kids, do you?

Your characterization of genitalia as "disgusting junk" is interesting. As far as healthy goes, getting kids used to nudity from an early age should prevent an unhealthy obsession with it later on, as well as a neurotic association of nudity with sex.
Nudity is therapeutic.

There's nothing naturally titillating about various degrees of nudity. This is pretty clear if you look at the many cultures where it's the norm. It does not excite. It's a yawn. Just as exposed legs are now unremarkable, though scarce a century ago they would have shocked.

The US' Puritain streak may be showing cracks, though. I read an interesting article a couple days ago in The Guardian about a "book club" that regularly strolls around New York City topless. It doesn't seem to be causing any harm. Topless Pulp Fiction Appreciation Society takes off | Books | theguardian.com

Wondering what the US media would use to sell stuff if nudity and sexuality was natural and accepted.

Yikes! You're right. Nudity would crash our economy.
I wonder if Burqa's would stimulate it?

 

[kashmir]

I just have to post this, no, there isnt nudity in it, its blurred out.
awwww shucks huh?

Clothing optional at White Tail Chapel, Virginia nudist church

I just remembered, once I asked my sis as we were discussing nudists,
I said what if everyone was naked and you were the only one with cloths on, they would make fun of you.
she said "let um, I would tell them" "look at you, you naked boo" lmfao

 

[Looncall]

Thanks for the support, much appreciated! I really just don't get why people think the human body is something to revile, or that parts of it are to be considered disgusting. In my mind that's unhealthy. Why defile ourselves, or others, with some sense of shame that's only ever caused people pain?

I think there are at least two con games in this. One is to make people morbidly guilty about something natural in order to get power over them. The other is to treat people (usually women) as property that might be lost to someone else. Before you can shake a stick, you have burkas and honour killings.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

WELCOME BACK DRU!!!!! I thought this was an ancient thread when I saw your name LOL!
Western society just has a very unhealthy approach towards nudity, sex and sexuality. I think a research question worthy of my master's thesis in a couple years, or maybe even doctorates dissertation, is why we think it is better for children (and television audiences at large) to witness violence and hate over love and compassion.