Obama couldn't govern himself out of a wet paper bag

[Magic Man]

So a person who is born on their farm who worked the farm since childhood should have to leave their farm and livelihood after working the land for 50+ years just because their parents died and they owe taxes they cannot afford to pay?

When faced with the fact that the farm had been in their family for generations, they should not have a problem with draconian 55% taxes that make it impossible to hand the land down to their children who have already worked the farm over 20 years?

These farms have already paid their taxes, the death tax is stealing from them and their children.

Hey, Rick, I don't need you to respond to me, but it would be good to at least read my replies to you. That way, you wouldn't continue to make false assertions like this and base your opinions on them. I'll refer you to my post earlier in the thread in response to you:

Too many muti-million dollar farms that were handed down for generations will not be handed down much longer. Many of these farms do not generate a 6 figure income and will have to be sold to pay the inheritance taxes.

Sorry, Rick, but that's just incorrect.

"The TaxPolicyCenter estimates that only 110 small-farm and small-business estates nationwide will owe any estate tax in 2011 if the 2009 estate tax levels are reinstated.[3] Since that figure also includes small business estates that are not farms, this means that fewer than 110 small-farm estates are likely to face the estate tax in 2011 if the 2009 rules are reinstated.

Moreover, this handful of taxable small-farm and small-business estates would owe only 11.3 percent of the estate’s value in tax, on average, according to the Tax Policy Center — well below the average effective tax rate of 18.9 percent for all taxable estates (and far below the top marginal rate for the estate tax of 45 percent under the 2009 rules).[4] One reason for the low effective tax rate is that the first $3.5 million of any estate (effectively $7 million for a couple) is entirely exempt from estate tax, and this large exemption generally protects a significant share of the value of small-business and small-farm estates from the tax. In addition, a number of special estate tax provisions targeted to small-business and small-farm estates (see page 4 for details) allow them to significantly reduce the amount of tax they owe, effectively increasing the exemption to $9 million per farming couple."


Link


Good job falling for the propaganda, though.

So:

1) It's not the death tax; it's the estate or inheritance tax (not that you're interested in unbiased terms).

2) It doesn't steal anything. It taxes inheritances.

3) The vast majority of farms and small businesses aren't even subject to the tax, and even the ones that are are able to pay the tax without selling the farm or business.

You can have any opinion you want, but please at least base it on actual facts.

 

[Revoltingest]

1) It's not the death tax; it's the estate or inheritance tax (not that you're interested in unbiased terms).

Are you truly & completely unaware that you believe your bias to be without bias?
Or is this just some wryly humorous device you employ?

 

[Magic Man]

Are you truly & completely unaware that you believe your bias to be without bias?

I'm sorry, but I'm not displaying bias in this situation. It's probably hard for you to see through your own bias here, but looking at it objectively, "death tax" is a biased term, while "estate tax" and "inheritance tax" are not.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sorry, but I'm not displaying bias in this situation. It's probably hard for you to see through your own bias here, but looking at it objectively, "death tax" is a biased term, while "estate tax" and "inheritance tax" are not.

Just checking.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Don't you mean they struggle to live in houses they can't afford or pay cable, internet and cell phone bills? The majority of Americans are overweight. Your statement needs to be challenged, site please.

Do I seriously need to post links to any of the many, many stories of hard-working people, and those who have been laid off, who have struggled to put food on the table? Are you putting the burden on those who have been hurt the most by the recklessness and greed of a very few people near the top? What do you not get about NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN?!

Rick why do economic conservatives continue to have no soul? Why do they treat these issues as if people's suffering is something that they deserved and not to even be softened? I'm not asking for complete equality across the board. I just want Americans to be able to have a bite to eat! What kind of a nation are we if that is even a question, let alone intentionally not done?

 

[Revoltingest]

Rick why do economic conservatives continue to have no soul?

That's like asking why lefties have no brain.
In civil discussion, we might think such thoughts, but know better than to voice them.

 

[linwood]

Rick why do economic conservatives continue to have no soul?

Because actually having a soul is "Taxing".

 

[madhatter85]

Did you read my statement, MH? I'm pretty sure that "Near as I can figure" indicated to any sane person that I was offering my personal opinion, and not necessarily anything but my personal opinion. Got a problem with someone offering their personal opinion on this board?

so why the disdain for rich people there Sunstone? Jealousy? Do you just hate money?

Do you know half of the rich people in the U.S.?

How can you have an opinion of someone you don't even know or had any form of interaction with?

I am waiting for your answers Sunstone.

I have been slammed more than once for offering my own personal opinions on this board for "not having a valid reason to back it up." It seems there is a problem with inconsistency here.

 

[madhatter85]

Do I seriously need to post links to any of the many, many stories of hard-working people, and those who have been laid off, who have struggled to put food on the table? Are you putting the burden on those who have been hurt the most by the recklessness and greed of a very few people near the top? What do you not get about NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN?!

Rick why do economic conservatives continue to have no soul? Why do they treat these issues as if people's suffering is something that they deserved and not to even be softened? I'm not asking for complete equality across the board. I just want Americans to be able to have a bite to eat! What kind of a nation are we if that is even a question, let alone intentionally not done?

You are completely misreading everything the conservative economists are saying.

Yes, there are some (definitely not anywhere near most) who through no fault of their own have problems.

does that necessitate stealing from others to help them? Absolutely not. this country is about freedom. If you choose not to help those in need when you have the opportunity to you have the absolute right to do that. you won't make any friends that way, but the government has no right sticking their nose in and forcing people to do anything.

It should be voluntary not forced.

 

[Sunstone]

I am waiting for your answers Sunstone.

I have been slammed more than once for offering my own personal opinions on this board for "not having a valid reason to back it up." It seems there is a problem with inconsistency here.

I thought I would give you time to become aware of your crappy use of logic in framing your questions, Mad. But it appears I will be waiting a long time for you to gain such self awareness.

so why the disdain for rich people there Sunstone? Jealousy? Do you just hate money?

How do you get from my impression that half the uber-rich I've heard of must be sociopathic, etc. to your apparent belief that I hate all "rich people" and might even be jealous of their money? You certainly didn't use logic to get there. So, where did your crappy analysis come from? Is crappy thinking habitual with you? Or do you just save it for when you really feel a deep need to embarrass yourself?

Do you know half of the rich people in the U.S.?

How can you have an opinion of someone you don't even know or had any form of interaction with?

An opinion is an opinion, Mad. Nothing more and nothing less. I need not defend my right to have one -- nor do you. But I will hint to you that my opinion of your "power of reasoning" is somewhat south now of my opinion of sociopaths. Please try to come up with something that isn't quite laughable.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

That's like asking why lefties have no brain.
In civil discussion, we might think such thoughts, but know better than to voice them.

Of course they don't. That's why liberals are more supportive of education, more accepting of science, and more trusting of reason. Give me a break, dude.

You are completely misreading everything the conservative economists are saying.

I'm not talking about the thinktanks, madhatter. I'm talking about people who believe in capitalism so blindly that they utterly refuse to accept anything that contradicts their opinions on the matter. And I have heard some incredibly calloused, heartless comments from them, bashing the poor and glorifying the rich. I'm not misreading anything. I'm simply stating my reaction to real-live comments.

Yes, there are some (definitely not anywhere near most) who through no fault of their own have problems.

Show me where I said that "most" people are in an economic mess through no fault of their own. "Most" != "Many".

does that necessitate stealing from others to help them? Absolutely not. this country is about freedom. If you choose not to help those in need when you have the opportunity to you have the absolute right to do that. you won't make any friends that way, but the government has no right sticking their nose in and forcing people to do anything.

It should be voluntary not forced.

Ironically, this is one of the better defenses of socialism that I've heard in awhile. See, what the pure capitalists do not get is that it ain't the poor stealing from the rich, but the other way around. The foreclosure crisis? Who profited off of that? How about credit default swaps? And the bank bailout? The current tax deal before Congress? If you think that any single one of those are "class warfare" of the poor against the rich, you seriously need to rethink all this.

 

[Magic Man]

does that necessitate stealing from others to help them? Absolutely not.

And this is the problem with trying to converse or argue with a conservative. At the very least, can you stop using ridiculous terms like "steal" to replace "tax"? Can we at least have an honest discussion, or would that impair your ability to make your points too much?

See, I can explain my points without resorting to inaccurate terms like "stealing". That's the mark of using reason and logic. Can you do the same? If you have to call it stealing to make your point, that says quite a bit about the failure of your point.

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course they don't. That's why liberals are more supportive of education, more accepting of science, and more trusting of reason. Give me a break, dude.

Going by the people I meet in this forum, the only superiority I see in the lefties is a smug sense of their own.

 

[Sunstone]

Do Progressives Hate Rich People? | Firedoglake

 

[Revoltingest]

We can see that some (but not all) lefites here hate the wealthy. But when it comes to politicians, it's clear that they
find it useful to foment hatred of the rich, even by those who are rich themselves (eg, Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, etc).

 

[Magic Man]

We can see that some (but not all) lefites here hate the wealthy.

Really? Can you give me an example of a lefty on here who we can see hates the wealthy? And obviously show us how we can see that he or she hates the wealthy?

 

[Revoltingest]

Really? Can you give me an example of a lefty on here who we can see hates the wealthy? And obviously show us how we can see that he or she hates the wealthy?

Now, now...let's not make this any more rancorous than it is.
I see what you're up to, but we'll let people make up their own judgments.
A mischievous little Smurph you are!

 

[Sunstone]

Really? Can you give me an example of a lefty on here who we can see hates the wealthy? And obviously show us how we can see that he or she hates the wealthy?

Those are good questions.

 

[Magic Man]

Now, now...let's not make this any more rancorous than it is. I see what you're up to, but we'll let people make up their own judgments. A mischievous little Smurph you are!

OK, that's what I thought. To be clear, what you're saying here is "No, I can't give you any examples to support my wild accusations; I just believe what I believe, and that's it". Thanks for confirming.

 

[Magic Man]

Those are good questions.

Thanks. I thought so. I guess that's why he can't answer them.