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Obama has Kenyan citizenship

Do you want a citizen of another country running US?


  • Total voters
    17

Makaveli

Homoioi
I'm operating on the beliefs of Teddy Roosevelt. My statements were misconstrued as either or when they were meant to convey the belief that you can't be an American when the majority of your allegiance lies to another country. I doubt Mr. Obama considers himself a Kenyan over an American so it's essentially a moot point.

"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.
This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.
But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.
The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.
The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic..."
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
link

OBAMA SUED IN PHILADELPHIA FEDERAL COURT ON GROUNDS HE IS CONSTITUTIONALLY INELIGIBLE FOR THE PRESIDENCY...

Just a quick post - it is true.

"Obama is not a natural born U.S. citizen or that, if he ever was, he lost his citizenship when he was adopted in Indonesia. Berg also cites what he calls "dual loyalties" due to his citizenship and ties with Kenya and Indonesia."

Not just Kenya, Indonesia too.
I do not think he is an American.
Hmm... a blog says that unnamed "forensic experts" have determined that Obama's birth certificate was forged. I am less than convinced.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
I'm operating on the beliefs of Teddy Roosevelt. My statements were misconstrued as either or when they were meant to convey the belief that you can't be an American when the majority of your allegiance lies to another country. I doubt Mr. Obama considers himself a Kenyan over an American so it's essentially a moot point.
I'm sure that he doesn't consider himself a Kenyan over American. But I'm also sure that he considers himself (at least in some contexts) African-American.

Why is there a hyphen? Because we recognize that we are treated differently, even if others won't. I highly doubt that any Euro-American has had the experience of one of their fellow Americans asking what country they are from, of assuming that they are from a different country just because of the way they look. I've experienced that all of my life:

Them: "Where are you from?"
Me: "California."
Them: "No, I mean where are you originally from?"
Me: :rolleyes:

It's hard to be absolutely committed to being an American when one's fellow countrymen and women are not committed to seeing you as one of them.

And what does it mean anyway? I give my allegiance to the U.S. above all other countries because it is my home. But my primary allegiance is not to any country; it is to the world.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It's hard to be absolutely committed to being an American when one's fellow countrymen and women are not committed to seeing you as one of them.

And what does it mean anyway? I give my allegiance to the U.S. above all other countries because it is my home. But my primary allegiance is not to any country; it is to the world.

What I find most disturbing about idea's OP is that the "Obama is a Kenyan citizen" argument, even if its premise was actually true, would really just mean that the mere fact that Obama is the son of a foreigner somehow makes him less qualified to be the President of the United States. Personally, I find this view abhorrent.

Edit: I hope that idea is just presenting a justification for an opinion about Obama that came from somewhere else, and that her opposition to him isn't actually based in xenophobia.
 
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Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What I find most disturbing about idea's OP is that the "Obama is a Kenyan citizen" argument, even if its premise was actually true, would really just mean that the mere fact that Obama is the son of a foreigner somehow makes him less qualified to be the President of the United States. Personally, I find this view abhorrent.

Edit: I hope that idea is just presenting a justification for an opinion about Obama that came from somewhere else, and that her opposition to him isn't actually based in xenophobia.
While I too disagree with the OP, the argument can be made without a discussion of "qualifications" as the Constitution clearly states the person must be born in the U.S. So - it's not about qualifications, it's about whether Obama meets the Constitutional standard of citizenship required to be president.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
While I too disagree with the OP, the argument can be made without a discussion of "qualifications" as the Constitution clearly states the person must be born in the U.S. So - it's not about qualifications, it's about whether Obama meets the Constitutional standard of citizenship required to be president.
But a person's status under the law of some other country doesn't factor into the standard of citizenship required to be President of the United States. Wild claims about Obama's birth certificate being forged aside, it's clear he was born in the United States. He also meets the other constitutional requirements for eligibility. His eligibility isn't called into question at all in reasonable discussion.

Frankly, I think that the support for Obama's claim of eligibility is much stronger than McCain's. If McCain passes the test, then so does Obama, IMO.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
But a person's status under the law of some other country doesn't factor into the standard of citizenship required to be President of the United States. Wild claims about Obama's birth certificate being forged aside, it's clear he was born in the United States. He also meets the other constitutional requirements for eligibility. His eligibility isn't called into question at all in reasonable discussion.

Frankly, I think that the support for Obama's claim of eligibility is much stronger than McCain's. If McCain passes the test, then so does Obama, IMO.

I wasn't talking about a person's status uner the law of some other country - I specifically mentioned the requirement of being born in the US. the OP challenges this (which is ridiculous). I merely pointed out that the challenge can be made absent a discussion re qualifications.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I wasn't talking about a person's status uner the law of some other country - I specifically mentioned the requirement of being born in the US. the OP challenges this (which is ridiculous). I merely pointed out that the challenge can be made absent a discussion re qualifications.
Yes, I suppose if Obama's birth certificate were forged and he were actually born in Kenya, then (AFIAK) he would be ineligible to be President. That claim didn't show up until the second page of the thread, though. The initial (and now refuted) argument was that Obama is a dual citizen, which implied that he was somehow less American or had divided loyalties.

Since that argument didn't hinge on any action that Obama personally made (or was alleged to have made) himself, but rather only on the country of birth of his father, it effectively amounts to an argument that the "American-ness" of the natural-born US citizen child of a foreigner is somehow inherently less than that of someone whose family has been here for at least a few generations. That's the implication that I take issue with.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
That claim didn't show up until the second page of the thread, though.
I thought it was in the claims made in the OP. Either way, the poster has made that claim in another thread as well. As I pointed out, the claim basically implies that not only is Obama constitutionally ineligible, but also deceitful. It's slanderous.

And part of me can't help wondering if they dared make such an accusation because they knew some people's fears would incline them to believe it. Either way, it's character assassination based on xenophobia.
 

idea

Question Everything
America's Right: Obama Sued in Philadelphia Federal Court on Grounds he is Constitutionally Ineligible for the Presidency
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/69960-obama-has-kenyan-citizenship-5.html

The court case is still going, scroll down on the RHS to see updates... you would think that it would be thrown out of court by now if there was no merit to it. I don’t think either candidate was born in the US… At least McCain was born on a US military base, and at least both of McCain’s parents are patriotic US citizens…
 

Sententia

Well-Known Member
sure - real patriotic...
harkin_steak_fry_08.jpg


please watch this vid
link
now watch this one
link
This is what Obama supports.

Here is another one
link



Obama did not serve in the military. Obama did not endure broken bones and torture for this country. McCain did. McCain has earned his right to be president ten times over, Obama has not.


Obama, his wife, his minister, and all his friends are just about as patriotic as Hugo Chaves...



I see McCain birth place to be a noble testament of his patriotism. From his birth, he has been with soldiers giving their lives for this country. The same cannot be said for Obama.



I don't question McCain loyalty either. I do question Obama's.



I am not being sarcastic. Why would anyone hold a citizenship to another country if they did not have vested interest in that country? I take my American citizenship very seriously. I want an ALL American boy as a president, not a 50% American boy.

Are you unsuccessfully trying to attack Obama?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The court case is still going, scroll down on the RHS to see updates... you would think that it would be thrown out of court by now if there was no merit to it.
OTOH, you would think that it would have been won by now if it were true.

I don’t think either candidate was born in the
US… At least McCain was born on a US military base, and at least both of McCain’s parents are patriotic US citizens…
You don't consider Hawai'i to be part of the US?

Isn't the patriotism of the candidates themselves at issue? I certainly hope that McCain's parents won't be involved in writing his legislation... especially his Dad. That would be way too Mackenzie King for me.
 
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Napoleon

Active Member
OTOH, you would think that it would have been won by now if it were true.

Obama filed a petition for a protective order staying discovery pending a decision on his motion to dismiss because, he argues in part, that providing his birth certificate would be "burdensome". Such a petition raises suspicions. If the Obama campaign can find the time to scan the birth certificate and post it on a website with a full rebuttal then why would it be "burdensome" to simply present the physical certificate to a judge and put the matter to rest?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I reckon if your candidate is a failure on matters of substance, then your only recourse is to dishonorably attack the other guy's candidate. The OP reeks of panic and desperation.
 
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