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Obama wins 2009 Nobel Peace Prize

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
This is a fascinating thread.
and highly predictable.
When I heard the news, at first I was surprised , then I must see what RF makes of it and how much it will be on party grounds.

I have read the thread and very few Europeans, or other than Americans, have put their head above the parapet.

Most of the replies have been as if this were an American Award rather than Scandinavian one.

America has always been out of step with European and world opinion.

Then along comes this guy called Obama, with a world view that is close to our own, and the USA are surprised when we welcome him with open arms.

Some of us certainly think this award has come somewhat early, However Obama has already started to identify with world problems in a way not done by any previous American president.

I suspect it is this change of direction and his obvious desire to help solve some of the more entrenched world problems, that has endeared him to, and given hope to, much of the worlds population. But since he is American they still hold reservations as to any successful outcomes.

I suspect the award is in recognition of his early direction and as encouragement to continue. The last thing on anyones mind would have been what the USA would think about it, as this is not part of the necessary criteria.

It will take far longer for Americans to recognize his worth. ( people rarely recognize prophets from their own back yard)
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
What are the chances of Obama declining the award? Would there be any backlash for him to do so? If not, that really looks like the best route to me.

Depends on how Obama treats Afghanistan and Iran from here on out imo. It would not surprise me if they awarded him the Peace Prize in order to influence his decisions about Afghanistan and Iran which are soon to be made.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Depends on how Obama treats Afghanistan and Iran from here on out imo. It would not surprise me if they awarded him the Peace Prize in order to influence his decisions about Afghanistan and Iran which are soon to be made.

You still do not get it... the awards committee is not a political body, neither is it a pressure group for any "Side" It makes awards on face value, and with out personal interest. You are so used to Lobbyists pressuring for special interests, that you think that is the norm in the wider world.
 

shortfade2

Active Member
i think Kathryn said that he was nominated exactly 9 days after being inagurated....what did he do in those nine days, eh? Did he...stop any wars? Did he...doooo anything by then? Because I honestly dont know what he was doing early on in office. I think he was trying to pass the stimulus package
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
i think Kathryn said that he was nominated exactly 9 days after being inagurated....what did he do in those nine days, eh? Did he...stop any wars? Did he...doooo anything by then? Because I honestly dont know what he was doing early on in office. I think he was trying to pass the stimulus package

Nomination is when your hat goes into the ring, it is not the measuring point.
every thing he has done in his life up to the announcement of the award are open for consideration. 9 days do not come into it.
Why he was nominated at that time is unknown to us, but like hundreds of others he was duly nominated... so the process took its course, as it did for the unsuccessful ones.
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Sorry for the rant, Terry. Deleted it.

Let me rephrase.

Be more specific with your criticism. Namely what do you specifically see in Obama to show that this award was more than a symbolic gesture. I know the given reason is his appearance of overtures for peace. That's hardly original among US Presidents nor unique among many world leaders today.
 
It honestly blows my mind he was awarded this. Valid arguments for him doing some good? Sure, I guess. What about the honest people making efforts towards peace; those who put in their time and effort; those who aren't egotists; those whose intentions aren't swayed by their capitalist agendas. This award should be given to the best, not... this guy, regardless if he's done good or not.
 
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Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
That's a laugh.

You've been listening to the media too long.

First, Obama has done nothing to set any precedent. He's actually held on to Bush policies or only relinquished certain ones after being hounded.

Also, many of us Americans actually know how our government works and realize that Presidents are not stage puppets for ignorant Europeans such as yourself only interested in appearances rather than substance.

Please name, during Obama's campaign and first month of Presidency, what he did that deserves this award. While you dig around for that nonsense I'll just recognize what others are too afraid to say. Obama is the first black man to become President. Some European organization apparently felt it was necessary to give him an award for that. Please feel free to speak for the entire continent of Europe as if you actually think you know how all those different people and culture think.

So apparently since most people do not agree with you, or put their head above the parapet as you so stupidly claim, they do not see the real value in this.

Spare us. State something actually worthwhile.

Your post exactly proves my point
There is a Total Difference in our world View.

That you mention Obama as a black man seems to indicate you put some importance on this point. I have always seen him as much white as black.
Perhaps you still hold to the tar brush mentality.
However it has nothing to do with real politics.
Or to a mans worth.
I have never chosen to call Americans ignorant, either personally nor as a nation.
That you refer to me and all Europeans in that way, some might consider insulting.

As to Obama's politics and to your suggestion he has done nothing, could again be seen as perspective, as he has taken some important first steps on the world stage, Particularly in respect of Russia and China and to some extent in the middle east.

On your home front, He understands as well as any one, that the ship of state has both mass as momentum and can only change course very slowly, you will no doubt find out in due time what has been set in motion behind the scenes.
This is always the case with a new administration, they have to work very privately to prevent the opposition negating their efforts, before they are revealed.
This is true of new governments through out the world.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
President Obama's conciliatory approach to world affairs reflects the continent's idea of what America should be: For Europeans, what matters most that he is not George W. Bush.......

Although he is new to world affairs with only a light record of accomplishment, Obama represents Europe's vision of what America should be. He comes across as conciliatory, open to dialogue and committed to engaging not only Europe, but the far and troubled reaches of world.....

The committee members "are 'right-thinking' Scandinavians who exemplify liberal internationalist traditions," said Stewart M. Patrick, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, who was a guest research fellow at the Norwegian Nobel Institute in 1993. "My gut instinct is that if they could have given the Nobel Prize to the American people for electing somebody other than George W. Bush, they would've done so.".....

"Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future," the committee said. "His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population." .....

That's exactly what Europeans like: a superpower that listens. Part of it is selfish. Such a philosophy raises the clout and diplomatic relevance of London, Paris and Berlin, to say nothing of Oslo. And Europe, which has deep problems with racial and ethnic discrimination, sees in Obama the embodiment of equality that can create a new international climate.....

A survey done in May and June by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press found that 86% of Britons believed Obama would "do the right thing in world affairs." That compares with a similar survey done in 2008, when 16% said Bush would do the right thing. In Germany, the numbers were 93% for Obama and 14% for Bush; in France, 91% and 13%.....

Obama's prize is not for accomplishment. It is a reaffirmation, smug perhaps, maybe even wistful, that to European eyes the United States has righted itself, that it is once again thinking and acting like it should.....

It is, after all, Norway that hands out the prize.

To Europe, Obama's Nobel is less surprising -- latimes.com
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Your post exactly proves my point
There is a Total Difference in our world View.

That you mention Obama as a black man seems to indicate you put some importance on this point. I have always seen him as much white as black.
Perhaps you still hold to the tar brush mentality.
However it has nothing to do with real politics.
Or to a mans worth.
I have never chosen to call Americans ignorant, either personally nor as a nation.
That you refer to me and all Europeans in that way, some might consider insulting.

As to Obama's politics and to your suggestion he has done nothing, could again be seen as perspective, as he has taken some important first steps on the world stage, Particularly in respect of Russia and China and to some extent in the middle east.

On your home front, He understands as well as any one, that the ship of state has both mass as momentum and can only change course very slowly, you will no doubt find out in due time what has been set in motion behind the scenes.
This is always the case with a new administration, they have to work very privately to prevent the opposition negating their efforts, before they are revealed.
This is true of new governments through out the world.

Let's see. I voted for Obama.

I did so because of his views regarding medical marijuana, making it easier for FOIA requests, someone who would appoint SCOTUS members opposite of Scalia and his so called new professionalism views, not only closing Gitmo but finally classifying the detainees into a clearer legal category, plans to withdraw troops from Iraq and Afghanistan as well as a change to a foreign policy not instituted by George Bush, as many naively believe, but was instituted under Woodrow Wilson.

Since his election it has become clear that the domestic drug war is not of much importance to this administration. The hit or miss attitude regarding allowing medical marijuana clinics in states that have legalized such is still pending given that some clinics have been raided in opposition to the Justice Department's new policy. But that was early on and the Justice Department does appear to be adhering to the new policy. The new policy in Afghanistan will at best result in fewer civilians turning to the Taliban for support than under the Bush opium eradication policy but it will still fail to address the overall issue. Obama has made mention of the possibility of crossing the border into Pakistan with the military.

On other issues he has kept Bush's policies or only relinquished those after being basically caught out. Opening the government up to the citizenry more being the latter. As to the former he has adhered to the prior administration on the legal limbo of the detainees and upholding the concept of indefinite detention. The two wars we are currently engaged in cannot be laid at his feet but during a time we are in those two wars, still trying to recover from an economic recession (unemployment keeps rising), failing to address the issue of the Federal Reserve, the loaning industry, the limitless money supply our ridiculous banking system allows the federal government to spend at will and he has taken this time to push for a radical reform of the health care industry, something almost every administration for more than a century have attempted to do, shows perhaps a lack of fiscal wisdom and the same overreach of the Executive Branch all his predecessors going back for well more than a century.

Let's look at a better indicator of foreign policy in the Americas. The drug war. Obama's officials have pulled out of talks on public policy forums regarding the drug war. There has been practically nothing from the Executive Office to alter federal drug control policies. The response that such an endeavour would be too much this early in the administration fails considering that health care reform was picked up right away and altering our health care structure is a hell of a lot more complicated than rescheduling certain drugs and the Executive Branch basically refusing to enforce certain laws in the manner that they do. Hillary Clinton has praised the Mexican government's crackdown that is responsible for much of the violence seen over the last two years. Not to mention the incredible level of corruption in Mexican law enforcement and central government. Obama has basically dropped his drug reform stance prior to his Presidency and adopted the "safe out" now that he is President.

Those are specifics.

Now tell me again, Terry, before you resort to your earlier generalized fallacy and ridiculous "parapet" comment.

What has Obama done to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. It may very well end up by the end of his first term that he has brought peace to the world. I hope so. I voted for the guy.

Now actually tell us the specifics you know about Obama to warrant such a premature award. If the award is ever warranted at all. Give us specifics. Not some buzzwords you learned off a cheap television talk show and truths you cannot even evidence.

Or is the award merely to be justified solely on the merits of the perception of people without being grounded on any realistic foundation. Then give the award to Paris Hilton. If you want to give it to someone who has shown that they use their resources to help others in this world then give it to Bill Gates.

For now, I'll continue to judge the man I voted for based on his actions and his character. Not a bunch of hype behind some morons shouting "he ain't George Bush!". Now that's dumb.

edit: And to anyone thinking that people are bashing Obama think again. It's not Obama that is being questioned here. It's the wisdom of others. Despite my criticisms I still support this President and could never consider McCain or that joke Bob Barr in his place. People need to reevaluate the value of symbols.
 
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Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
President Obama's conciliatory approach to world affairs reflects the continent's idea of what America should be: For Europeans, what matters most that he is not George W. Bush.......

That is of course nonsense. Europeans are very pleased, on many levels, that we do not have to put up with Bush... however that could have been accomplished with the election of any new president. We have had to put up with the world policies of a number of poor presidents, but we have not previously welcomed each new one with open arms.



[/quote]
Although he is new to world affairs with only a light record of accomplishment, Obama represents Europe's vision of what America should be. He comes across as conciliatory, open to dialog and committed to engaging not only Europe, but the far and troubled reaches of world.....[/quote]

True. Is that not what all world leaders should do?

The committee members "are 'right-thinking' Scandinavians who exemplify liberal internationalist traditions," said Stewart M. Patrick, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, who was a guest research fellow at the Norwegian Nobel Institute in 1993. "My gut instinct is that if they could have given the Nobel Prize to the American people for electing somebody other than George W. Bush, they would've done so.".....

See previous answer.

"Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future," the committee said. "His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population." .....

True as above.

That's exactly what Europeans like: a superpower that listens. Part of it is selfish. Such a philosophy raises the clout and diplomatic relevance of London, Paris and Berlin, to say nothing of Oslo. And Europe, which has deep problems with racial and ethnic discrimination, sees in Obama the embodiment of equality that can create a new international climate.....

we do not have problems of racial discrimination, we have problems of racial (terrorist) conflict

I hope he helps solve problems.

A survey done in May and June by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press found that 86% of Britons believed Obama would "do the right thing in world affairs." That compares with a similar survey done in 2008, when 16% said Bush would do the right thing. In Germany, the numbers were 93% for Obama and 14% for Bush; in France, 91% and 13%.....

Surprising considering previous anti American feeling in some countries.

Obama's prize is not for accomplishment. It is a reaffirmation, smug perhaps, maybe even wistful, that to European eyes the United States has righted itself, that it is once again thinking and acting like it should.....

I would not say that is true, as the award surprised most Europeans.

However in the light of the progress he has made with Russia and China and for the fact he has actually spoken on the world stage, I would suggest we welcome the award.
It would seem Your president's efforts in this regard, like most other world affairs, do not draw much attention in domestic America.
 

themadhair

Well-Known Member
It should be noted that, at least according to the speech he made, that Obama himself doesn't think he deserved it.
 
But he will accept the award anyway.....

It would be ungracious to refuse it, he is in an impossible situation really.

I think we can easily overlook the fact that , President Obama isn't at any fault here, he has yet to deserve such an accolade in my opinion, but I hardly think he was lobbying for it.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I thought his acceptance of it, not for things done, but as a rallying cry was much better than a refusal...
But here again we come back to the start. He has not done a thing to warrant this award and his policies may prove to be disastrous.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
An instructive side-note from Jerusalem Post:
'Guardian' omits Israeli nobel winners

LONDON - The Guardian was forced to amend an article on past Nobel Peace Prize winners on its Web site on Friday after it omitted the names of Israel's prize winners.

Following the announcement of US President Barack Obama's winning the 2009 prize, an article written by the newspaper's news editor Simon Rogers listed the names of all Nobel Peace prize winners since the awards inception in 1909. However, all of Israel's prize winners - Menachem Begin, Yizhak Rabin and Shimon Peres - were omitted.

In the 1978 entry, Menachem Begin's name was missing, with only Egyptian president Anwar Sadat listed. The same error occurred in the 1994 entry with Yasser Arafat the only entry and Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres missing.​
Instructive ...
 

kai

ragamuffin
"for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"

Peace 2009


when? where?


The Nobel Peace Center is a center where you can experience and learn about the various Peace Prize Laureates and their activities as well as the remarkable history of Alfred Nobel. In addition, it will serve as voice and meeting place where exhibits, discussions and reflections related to war, peace and conflict resolution is in focus.


So what are they going to do with the Obama section leave it blank and hopefully fill it out later or what?

http://nobelprize.org/nobelpeacecenter/index.html
 
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