On what basis do you say so?
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Obama's proposal to go back to the 1967 borders
- Thread starter YmirGF
- Start date
On what basis do you say so?
totally agree, especially with the bolded.
I base my opinion on how past concessions have not produced the desired results.
MORE Painful Concessions? Really? - A7 Exclusive Features - Israel News - Israel National News
Anti-Israeli? I don't see him backing off on prior support for the state.
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
So, what then would a left-wing inspired two state solution look like? The way I understand it is that going back to the pre-1967 borders merely leaves Israel without the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and I am not entirely sure what the problem with that would be. I honestly do not know enough about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as I should, so I am open to any non-nationalist arguments.
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zorrro
New Member
The sooner the USA splits away from Isreal the better for USA. This insult to Israel is a political blessing to the USA. I sincerely hope that Isreal decides to cut political ties with the USA. Isreal has kept the USA on their political leash for too long. Pres. Obama has pulled a real cool political move by all accounts. He is in essence telling Israel who the Boss is. Take it or leave it. Wow, he sounds like a Jewish merchant !! Incidentally, public discussion of Israel's borders is not a concern of Christians and is not a biblical topic for discussion. this is a political issue. Biblically, Jerusalem and Jews were replaced by a new Convenant and with a new Jerusalem. The Jewish people sell their land as the "Holy Land" to Christians so that Christians will be concerned about its future. Honestly and truthfully, do Jewish people really, really want Christians in their country!!! Let us be real. During the middle ages, countless of thousands of "christian" soldiers were asked to rescue Palestine from the Arabs. Why do such a foolish thing? Isreal is of no importance to modern day Christians who truly believe in Christ. The sooner Christians stop being pansys for the Jewish people the sooner the Jewish people will stop using Christians for their benefit.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Don't trip on your sword, dude.
Gawd...it took me a minute to get that one.
Hey, welcome aboard, Zorrro!
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A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
You can delight yourself for hours exploring the mysteries of my brilliance.
Just don't look directly into the sun, if you know what I mean.
Bismillah
Submit
What is more revealing is the Republican's hosting Netanyahu at the joint session whereby he denied the existance of any occupation in the West Bank and GazaObama said:
He stated that he wouldn't give an inch of Jerusalem, the annexation of the majority of its colonies, and the presence of IDF troops in the Jordan valley (along with the demilitarization of any future Palestine).
He stated that Israel would never negotiate with any government that included Hamas, symbolic or not (Israel's foreign minister favors ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and the parties on the right in Israel are hardly any better than Hamas of course this does not matter because it is not them in charge of F.A. or the right wing politicians who refer to Arabs animals and make slurs against Palestinians)
Pretty much a rejection of joint-recognition and the desire for peace.
And he was met with thundering applause! Obviously Congress is in AIPAC's pocket, the Obama administration isn't and this just goes to show how far America's role as the "honest broker" really is. The exact same reasons why Palestine will pursue state recognition as it should instead of relying on the obvious partisan mechanisms of the Israeli lobby.
Anyone thinking that the Palestinians can rely on Obama as a supporter needs to pull their head out of the sand
Obama said:
Ah yes! The new demographic reality of Palestinian dispossession and Israeli colonisation every single day. There is big difference between a Palestine established on '67 borders and "based on" '67 borders. The Palestinians had precisely the right reaction to this speech, it called ******** on this lipservice and vague rhetoric while Obama gave the Israelis the go ahead to continue annexing its colonies. He has gone so far as to legitimise these colonies and put these illegal colonists on par with its forcibly vacated inhabitants.Obama said:
Contrary to the idiotic idea that Obama is anything but pro-Israeli in his own words
As if it's Israel's legitimacy at hand! These weak pathetic excuses to deflect the reality of Netanyahu blackmailing and hijacking American foreign policyObama said:
Despite these tough fiscal times! **** you America Isreal is more important.Obama said:
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Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
You know, for years I have been voting for a left wing party. but they have nothing constructive to offer that I can think of when it comes to the palestinians. the last dramatic offer took place in 2000 by Ehud Barak, and the debates still rage whether it was Arafat's and the Palestinian authority's fault or Ehud Barak's and the Labour's party fault on the failure of the negotiations. one thing is for sure, president Clinton at the time, still holds a serious grudge for a now deceased Arafat and the Palestinians on what he considers turning back on the most virile peace offer in the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Why did I vote for a left wing party?
really simple, down to earth reasons. such as keeping a leash on the religious elements in the country. and making sure our gay community keep on living the life it deserves.
but speaking in all honesty. with the right wing, and with prime ministers such as Benjamin Netanyahu, I know at least where we stand, as a country and as a political public.
we are not interested in big changes in the political negotiations.
I want the Palestinians to know, and I want the Shiites in Lebanon to know as well. that no one is going to make consessions with them. what we do offer, is normal solutions. the kind that they will actually benefit from. my life is good already. their life is not. not because of Israel, but because the life they choose for themselves.
If you take Israel out of the picture. you will notice that all these elements. the Palestinians or Lebanese have been fighting with everyone else anyhow. they have been fighting with the Lebanese, they have been fighting with other Palestinians, they have been fighting with the Egyptians, and with the Jordanians.
puting this simple fact in light, why should Israel treat them any differently, we already got them surrounded, and we have been making all the shots for decades as it is.
they want a normal solution?
sure. absolutely. ahlan wasahlan. we are here and have been waiting for a normal solution from you for decades.
anything else, means going back to the negotiations table and gathering the crumbles of bread.
have you ever seen the differences between a typical liberal Lebanese crowd in its demonstrations, and a typical hezballah supporting Shiite crowd in its demonstrations in Beirut?
we already know there are normative crowds here, who actually beg to live in a normal region. without coups, without resistance movements who use imaginery cards in order to enforce a Shiite lifestyle on a general population.
what prime ministers such as Benjamin Netanyahu do offer in the negotiations with the Palestinians, IS giving up parts of the Jewish homeland, and exchanging lands between the two sides, in order to find the optimal map, where every population rests in the greater boundaries of its nation.
Israel has already gave Gaza strip some years back.
the west bank is more tricky. because it surrounds Jerusalem, it is resting in a much more important region, and its a much larger land. in effect giving back the west bank would narrow Israel into a small strip of land of only a handful of miles.
can you guarantee to me that Palestinian groups will not lob home made rockets at my part of town? can Obama guarantee that?
because going back to the 1967 borders and giving the west bank, means that these Palestinian groups will roam the area just a handful of miles from my town and from my neighborhood.
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Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I just want my one pound of flesh, angellous.
really that is all I want. and I will be on my way back to Venice.
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Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
But not a drop of blood... remember.
You know, that article gives me a gut feeling that the very idea of Israel existing in the first place is a grave mistake. It just keeps feeding feelings that seem to unavoidably lead to bloodshed and genocidal hatred.
People are still killing, dying and talking words of bloody hatred, Caladan. That alone means that it is a current, relevant matter.
Yes. And having all option on the table means all options, not only those that are confortable to Israeli nationalists with little sense of global responsibility.
To think that the existence of Israel was promoted by the UN... heck, to think that its existence is largely a measure of compensation for the unchecked excesses of German Nationalism. The irony is overwhelming.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Really. if you are one of those who are killing and dying for the purpose of surgically removing an Israel.
it is a fantastic myth which is used in romanticizing political agendas. really. thats it.
no one is actually buying it. not the arabs, nor any other serious player in global politics.
Its a shame that I need to give you an education about the irony of talking about the existence of an established state. a state which has been in existence for the past 63 years. has won wars into the overtime. while its last remaining enemies are all concentrated in a small strip of land, louding about its existence, while they eat each other from within. and while they have social and political concerns which have piled up and will remain long after the possible establishment of a Palestinian state. their problem wouldnt be the Jew anymore. it would be the Palestinian.
Just so I understand your position here, you don't believe Israel has the right to even exist?
If this is the case, I say we move the borders back to where they where just after the six day war then.
I guess you further believe the United States should stay out of this as well. Would that be a correct assumption?
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