Occultism

[InChrist]

You are thinking of good and evil in very finite and human terms. Understandable. I do not think that God actually causes evil, but there is 100% proof that if God exists he allows evil to happen. This is because, I believe, that God is beyond our finite, human sense of right and wrong. You are free to disagree.

[FONT=&quot]Actually I don't think of good and evil in only finite terms because the scriptures tell me God's infinite perspective on what is right and good or what is wrong and evil. Were it not for the revelation of God I would make up my own ideas of good and evil, which I did, even rationalizing my own evil, before God opened my eyes and set me straight.

I am in agreement with you that God does not cause evil, but allows it to exist...temporarily at least. I believe it will come to an end. If you believe..." that God does not cause evil", then this is different than saying God is good and evil, like yin/yang as if evil is intrinsic in His Being.


[/FONT]

Warped sense of love... also a warped sense of perfection. So unbalanced and incomplete; all-lovingness.[/quote]

[FONT=&quot]God is love. Love abhors sin and evil. Love is complete as God is complete in Himself. I see nothing out of balance.


[/FONT]

God transcends all nature and also interpenetrates all nature. Therefore God is inside all things, including you and I.

[FONT=&quot]

Yes, God transcends and His power and energy hold all things together, but ALL His Being or Essence is not inside you or me and I don't believe God is a force humans can manipulate in any way.

[/FONT]

I disagree. Again, in finite, human terms you would say obviously that the painter and painting are separate. However, at a deeper level, the painter is in the paining, his soul is directly tied to it. Same with architecture; different architects will do things differently because they them Self are as important as everything else.

[FONT=&quot]

I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain extent, nevertheless, the person of the painter is not in the paint, design, or canvas.

[/FONT]

I would research this, if you believe it to be false. What I made bold is exactly why I cannot believe your scriptures are correct.

I have extensively researched this as well as having read the scriptures. My conclusion is that only God could have inspired and orchestrated the Bible Anyone who reads and understand the scriptures being led by the Holy Spirit has the truth by which to test all things and will not fall under the control of any authoritarian church, group or false teaching of someone because the scriptures lead the individual to a relationship directly with the Lord and Creator of heaven and earth.


“While Bible writers were inspired, the scribes, translators, and others who followed were not. This does not mean, as some have suggested, that we do not have God’s Word in an accurate form today. The text of the Bible we possess can be trusted, and counted as reliable. The modernistic idea which suggests that the copying process through the ages has destroyed the essence of inspiration is a “theological scarecrow to frighten those who are not knowledgeable of the art of transmission of the Bible” (Dickson, 1997, p. 319). The copying process through the centuries was so meticulous, and the number of extant manuscripts available for comparison is so large, that the minute variations which do occur are detected easily. Further, these variations are insignificant in nature, and do not affect points of doctrine.”
Excerpt from:
In Defense of...the Bible’s Inspiration [Part I]

Apologetics Press

Well, lucifer in Isaiah was the Babylonian king. The lucifer translation was made in the 2nd century I believe. It quickly came to be a story of The Devil falling, with no help from paradise lost. Just another perversion of Jewish scripture. If you willfully choose to follow a misinterpretation there is not much I can say...

The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has shown the accuracy of the translation of the book of Isaiah. If you read the passage (Isaiah 14:12-17) for yourself you will see that it cannot solely apply to the earthy man, the King of Babylon. As with many OT passages this one falls under the double-reference principle. Some aspects applied to the Babylonian king of the time and some to the spiritual being of Satan. A similar passage is in Ezekiel 28:12-17 which references both the king of Tyre and Satan. These passages display the arrogant character and attitude of Satan behind these two kings, but consider who but Satan has:

[FONT=&quot]-has fallen from heaven (Isaiah 14:12)? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]-can be called the “star of the morning” and “son of the dawn” (Isaiah 14:12)? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]-had the “seal of perfection” and was “full of wisdom and perfect in beauty,” in “Eden, the garden of God” (Ezekiel 28:12-13)? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]-was “blameless” when created (Ezekiel 28:15)? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]-was “the anointed cherub” (Ezekiel 28:14)? [/FONT]

Satan’s Part in God’s Perfect Plan

http://bible.org/seriespage/satan’s-part-god’s-perfect-plan

 

[1137]

Actually I don't think of good and evil in only finite terms because the scriptures tell me God's infinite perspective on what is right and good or what is wrong and evil. Were it not for the revelation of God I would make up my own ideas of good and evil, which I did, even rationalizing my own evil, before God opened my eyes and set me straight.

If you believe that you can understand the infinite's perspective from reading a book you are delusional, plain and simply. I mean I would really like to hear your opinions on some current controversial topics and support whether they are good or evil; how about abortion and gay marriage?

I am in agreement with you that God does not cause evil, but allows it to exist...temporarily at least. I believe it will come to an end. If you believe..." that God does not cause evil", then this is different than saying God is good and evil, like yin/yang as if evil is intrinsic in His Being.

Well, God as Creator is like the Yin / Yang. Giving and restriction, masculine and feminine energy, dark and light, etc. God itself is unending, you could say endless light. If that light was unrestricted, only God would ever exist. Of course, only God does exist, but I think that will go right over your head.

God is love. Love abhors sin and evil. Love is complete as God is complete in Himself. I see nothing out of balance.

God is love but God hates evil. That is a contradiction, love and hate. See, you actually believe the same thing I am saying, but that is not the way the explanation was bashed into your mind. You see, if God is just He is not all-loving, at least not in the Christian sense which is omnibenevolent.

Yes, God transcends and His power and energy hold all things together, but ALL His Being or Essence is not inside you or me and I don't believe God is a force humans can manipulate in any way.

Obviously. If all of God's essence was in each thing then all there would be is God. You can think of it symbolically as each thing has a piece of God inside of it. If you eliminate the illusion of duality you realize that all there is is God. Technically you are right, God is not in us, as we do not exist. We are simply God's energy much further devolved that God itself.

I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain extent, nevertheless, the person of the painter is not in the paint, design, or canvas.

Ok, well I do not compare God to a finite, physical human being. You can, by all means. But I feel that such a concept of God is completely useless. If all that matters is the material then why even add God into the equation?

I have extensively researched this as well as having read the scriptures.

Apparently not...

My conclusion is that only God could have inspired and orchestrated the Bible Anyone who reads and understand the scriptures being led by the Holy Spirit has the truth by which to test all things and will not fall under the control of any authoritarian church, group or false teaching of someone because the scriptures lead the individual to a relationship directly with the Lord and Creator of heaven and earth.

"Being led by the Holy Spirit"... again, I already pointed out that I agree the bible has useful mysticism. But only with mysticism can you find it, as you just pointed out. I honestly find your whole belief system too subjective to even take seriously. "People claimed this so it is obviously true". That doesn't work for me personally, I try to dig as deep as possible. Also, looking at the similarities that run through all religions and experiences (aka mysticism) is very useful.

The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has shown the accuracy of the translation of the book of Isaiah. If you read the passage (Isaiah 14:12-17) for yourself you will see that it cannot solely apply to the earthy man, the King of Babylon. As with many OT passages this one falls under the double-reference principle. Some aspects applied to the Babylonian king of the time and some to the spiritual being of Satan. A similar passage is in Ezekiel 28:12-17 which references both the king of Tyre and Satan. These passages display the arrogant character and attitude of Satan behind these two kings, but consider who but Satan has:

Why you are quoting Ezekiel to reference Isaiah is beyond me. People ditch logic in the face of powerful opposition I suppose. Also, you are not going to get anywhere when you get all your information from Christian sources. Think for yourself!

This is actually what Isaiah 14:12-17 says;

How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’ 15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. 16 Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, 17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?

Firstly, notice that it originally does not even say Lucifer. The misinterpretation you willingly choose to accept isn't even accurate. Lucifer is "morning star", not necessarily day star. Second, the angel you claim fell from heaven had to be in heaven to fall from it, yet this passage says "you said in your heart; I will ASCEND into heaven", so that doesn't line up with your accepted misinterpretation. Also; "is this the MAN who made the earth tremble...".

So let us recap. Since you accept the misinterpretation you believe that Lucifer / Satan was a man who lived not in heaven but on earth? Well, ok... illogical but whatever. Also with this line of thought, that Lucifer is Satan, Jesus Christ is also Satan.
Revelations 22:16

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

Lucifer is morning star, Christ calls himself the morning star. So you believe that Satan / Lucifer was a man who lived on earth who is also Jesus Christ who is the Devil.... man, there is such a lack of logic in that line of thought I feel depressed just typing it up. Your choice though.

 

[1137]

You did mention duel meaning though, the spiritual aspect of Satan. Satan simply was the title of an adversary, which the king would have been. Sadly, the devil was not what was in mind, as Satan is a title, not a being. So it having duel meaning is irrelevent, and it holds that Lucifer and your mythology's devil are unrelated.

 

[Orias]

My life is willingly submitted to and controlled only by Jesus Christ to whom the demons must also submit, though unwillingly.

Angels and demons, they are the same.

 

[1137]

Angels and demons, they are the same.

They are equal, but they serve different purposes. Balance, balance, balance.

 

[Orias]

They are equal, but they serve different purposes. Balance, balance, balance.

I tend to think equality cannot be measured.

And plus, all demons were once angels.

All men were once boys.

 

[1137]

I tend to think equality cannot be measured.

And plus, all demons were once angels.

All men were once boys.

Angels and demons are useless titles in my mind. Same, interchangeable ideas. When a force helps someone's cause they say angel, when it harms they say demon.

 

[Orias]

Angels and demons are useless titles in my mind. Same, interchangeable ideas. When a force helps someone's cause they say angel, when it harms they say demon.

Exactly.

 

[InChrist]

[FONT=&quot]I am sorry for taking so long to respond. I’ve been preoccupied with a couple of things. I think I will address the points concerning Satan since he is the one to which the practice of occultism always and ultimately leads.[/FONT]

Why you are quoting Ezekiel to reference Isaiah is beyond me. People ditch logic in the face of powerful opposition I suppose. Also, you are not going to get anywhere when you get all your information from Christian sources. Think for yourself!

[FONT=&quot]I am referring to Ezekiel because it is proper biblical hermeneutics to gain insight and let the Bible interpret itself by studying related passages and taking into consideration the whole counsel of God Word’s.

[/FONT]

This is actually what Isaiah 14:12-17 says;
How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’ 15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. 16 Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, 17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?


Firstly, notice that it originally does not even say Lucifer. The misinterpretation you willingly choose to accept isn't even accurate. Lucifer is "morning star", not necessarily day star.

[FONT=&quot]The complete Hebrew phase is Heylel ben shakar, or “shining one, son of the dawn” ”. Heylel is from a root word that means “to shine” in the sense of boasting or making a show of oneself. When you read the next two verses of Isaiah 14, you see this character spoken of made five boasts about what He intended to do and clearly these specific five “I wiils” are boasts of an angelic being in the heavenly realm, not an earthy king, although the same pompous attitude is displayed in the man/king.
[FONT=&quot]Lucifer means [literally, "day star," "light bearer" ]. "Lucifer" is the Latin equivalent to the Greek phosphorus, from phos, "light. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The word Lucifer only appears some translations of Isaiah 14:12 because Lucifer is a Latin word and Isaiah was originally written in Hebrew. Since it means “light bearer” this was the Latin translation of the Hebrew phrase Heylel ben Shachar , which means “shining one, son of the dawn”. The way this character is described in Isaiah 14:12-20 and Ezekiel 28:12-18 make it clear that he’s the great enemy of God also called the serpent (literally the enchanter) in Genesis 3:1 and Satan in Job 1:6 and other places. Satan comes from the Hebrew haSatan which means “the adversary” so it’s a title which shows his character. Lucifer may be a slightly different Latin translation of “shining one, son of the dawn”, but given the meaning of “Lucifer” Whether he is called Lucifer, light bearer , shining one, or son of the dawn, all these descriptions show something about the this being so far as expressing the personality and character of Satan, which is consistent in this passage when compared with other passages in reference to him throughout the scriptures. Originally, Satan was a shining angelic being, some scholars believe he may have been the highest of the angels until he became enraptured with himself and iniquity arose within him. Now he only transforms himself into an angel of light for the purpose of deceiving and harming humanity.[/FONT]

Second, the angel you claim fell from heaven had to be in heaven to fall from it, yet this passage says "you said in your heart; I will ASCEND into heaven", so that doesn't line up with your accepted misinterpretation.

You left out the rest of the sentence of verse 13 and 14 which I now highlight in bold: ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’ which show he wanted to exalt himself to a higher place in heaven… above God his Creator.
Actually, although Satan has fallen from his position of an anointed angel I believe his complete fall from heaven does not occur until the tribulation period, this is a prophetic picture of that event. Right now Satan still has access to heaven (Job1;1-2;8, Zechariah 3).

Also; "is this the MAN who made the earth tremble...".

[FONT=&quot]As I have said many passages have double meaning in that they give a physical, earthly account while giving insight to the spiritual reality behind the scenes. The king described in this passage made the earth tremble, but the reality is that Satan is behind such men inspiring and motivating them in their evil.


[/FONT]

So let us recap. Since you accept the misinterpretation you believe that Lucifer / Satan was a man who lived not in heaven but on earth? Well, ok... illogical but whatever. Also with this line of thought, that Lucifer is Satan, Jesus Christ is also Satan.
Revelations 22:16

Lucifer is morning star, Christ calls himself the morning star. So you believe that Satan / Lucifer was a man who lived on earth who is also Jesus Christ who is the Devil.... man, there is such a lack of logic in that line of thought I feel depressed just typing it up. Your choice though.

[/quote]

[FONT=&quot]The biblical recap would be that at one time Satan was a shining son of the dawn, an angelic being of light, given the title of Lucifer in Latin, whether you want to use or accept that makes no difference to the account. He became conceited with himself and thought he could exalt himself above his Creator. Since such time he has been the enemy (adversary) of God and (accuser) of humanity God’s creation. Throughout earth’s history he has inspired evil men, kings, leaders, and others to have his same self-exalting, boastful attitude and this will culminate in the final world leader known as the antichrist or lawless one, but all these men have been or will be brought down to the pit as this once “son of the dawn” now known as Satan also will ultimately fall and be brought down,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]All the angels are called morning stars, collectively (Job 38:4-7), this is not a unique title. Satan is classed among the other morning stars as a created angelic being. However, he being called the son of the morning separates him from among the other stars. The other angels are called stars, morning stars (symbolically), this title makes the point that he had a higher position than the others. But he lost this title as he lost his position when he rebelled in sin and pride. Some scholars believe Jesus took this title upon himself, being called the Bright Morning star: just as he took the title of Son of man later in his incarnation and the last Adam (1 Cor.15:45). According to the scriptures, Jesus alone is the true self-existent Light of the world (John 1:1-9) In Rev 22:16: `Jesus is called THE “Bright morning star, meaning singular and unique. Jesus is saying he alone is the Bright morning star, “I am the Bright and Morning Star.” And only here is the word Bright added to Morning Star which distinguishes Jesus from all others.[/FONT]

 

[InChrist]

Angels and demons, they are the same.

They are only the same in that they are created angelic beings, but their characters are now vastly different. Angels serve their Creator, minster aid to humanity, and do good. Demons serve Satan and are the enemies of the Creator and humans, deceiving humanity and perpetuating evil.

 

[1137]

They are only the same in that they are created angelic beings, but their characters are now vastly different. Angels serve their Creator, minster aid to humanity, and do good. Demons serve Satan and are the enemies of the Creator and humans, deceiving humanity and perpetuating evil.

No, what would help you would be angelic and what harms would be demonic. It is subjective. A demon to one person is an angel to another. They are all the same energy, not some supernatural beings in a great spiritual war. Do you realize how egotistical your religious beliefs are? You assume that these great, powerful beings are obsessed with humanity, helping or saving us. If every single thing on earth died, the universe would not even really notice. God isn't going to waste his time on you without earning it, and angels and demons aren't going to battle over each individual soul.

 

[InChrist]

No, what would help you would be angelic and what harms would be demonic. It is subjective. A demon to one person is an angel to another. They are all the same energy, not some supernatural beings in a great spiritual war. Do you realize how egotistical your religious beliefs are? You assume that these great, powerful beings are obsessed with humanity, helping or saving us. If every single thing on earth died, the universe would not even really notice. God isn't going to waste his time on you without earning it, and angels and demons aren't going to battle over each individual soul.

[FONT=&quot]You are entitled to your view that angels and demons are subjective, certainly, but how do you know? How do you know that “angels and demons” are only energy and all the same energy rather than actual spiritual beings? You seem more than willing to read many spiritual resources and are open to accepting various philosophies …except the revelation given concerning this subject in the Old and New Testaments. The scriptures are very clear and objective about God’s concern for humanity, the existence of real spiritual beings (angels and demons), the distinct difference between good and evil, and the spiritual battle taking place over each human life. Do you believe your subjective view is true and therefore objective?[/FONT]

 

[1137]

[FONT=&quot]You are entitled to your view that angels and demons are subjective, certainly, but how do you know? How do you know that “angels and demons” are only energy and all the same energy rather than actual spiritual beings?

Well, first of all, saying that what harms you you'll view as evil and what helps you'll view as good is basic psychology. Psychology and logic are both objective, so what you logically derive from psychology is objective. Angels and demons are only energy because all that exists is energy, there is nothing else. Energy vibrating at different frequencies. That energy is Spirit / God I think, whatever you want to call it. Research quantum physics. There are NO beings. Universal Negative.

You seem more than willing to read many spiritual resources and are open to accepting various philosophies …except the revelation given concerning this subject in the Old and New Testaments.

I have read the OT too many times to count. I never really had a choice. I have also read the NT plenty of times, although not nearly as much as the OT or more interesting and useful books. I don't accept any religion fully, what is the chance that ONE is going to be completely right? Oh yeah... that conclusion is drawn from logic....

The scriptures are very clear and objective about God’s concern for humanity, the existence of real spiritual beings (angels and demons), the distinct difference between good and evil, and the spiritual battle taking place over each human life. Do you believe your subjective view is true and therefore objective?[/FONT]

Ok, well I've already stated that the writings of man are not the be all, end all for me. They do not answer all my questions. Ancient man made metaphorical stories for things we cannot understand. Heck, if you looked at my beliefs as literal they would be 100% different than what I actually believe. Christianity, to me, is the ultimate logical fallacy. It is one, extremely large straw man argument.

I don't believe any human can know 100% truth. But my beliefs are logic (objective) + Science (objective) + Psychology (objective) + mathematics / geometry (objective). The final result is an inference, which is touched by subjectivity, and that is my metaphorical symbolism.

 

[InChrist]

Well, first of all, saying that what harms you you'll view as evil and what helps you'll view as good is basic psychology. Psychology and logic are both objective, so what you logically derive from psychology is objective.

Definition of [FONT=&quot]OBJECTIVE[/FONT]

: of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers [FONT=&quot]:[/FONT] having reality independent of the mind
[FONT=&quot]:[/FONT] expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations
Merriam-Webster.com.

[FONT=&quot]So you are saying that according to basic psychology which is objective, good and evil are not objective because they are only interpreted by one’s feelings or perceptions, is that right? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]If I steal your car and injure you in the process for my benefit, it may seem evil to you because you were harmed, but since it helped me gain something it seems good, yet the action is neither inherently good nor evil.
[/FONT]

Angels and demons are only energy because all that exists is energy, there is nothing else. Energy vibrating at different frequencies. That energy is Spirit / God I think, whatever you want to call it. Research quantum physics. There are NO beings. Universal Negative.

[FONT=&quot]Because everything is composed of energy, then you believe all that exists is energy. So this leads you to the conclusion that angels and demons as beings cannot exist and I suppose since you said there are NO beings you are saying human beings such as you or me don’t exist.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is about all I can get to tonight, am I understanding your thoughts correctly?
[/FONT]

 

[1137]

Definition of [FONT=&quot]OBJECTIVE[/FONT]

: of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers [FONT=&quot]:[/FONT] having reality independent of the mind
[FONT=&quot]:[/FONT] expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations
Merriam-Webster.com.

[FONT=&quot]So you are saying that according to basic psychology which is objective, good and evil are not objective because they are only interpreted by one’s feelings or perceptions, is that right? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]If I steal your car and injure you in the process for my benefit, it may seem evil to you because you were harmed, but since it helped me gain something it seems good, yet the action is neither inherently good nor evil.
[/FONT]

Straw man much? I am saying that what opposes you you'll label demonic and what aids you you'll label angelic. In reality, the force that opposes you may be testing you and the force keeping you comfy is your worst enemy. I believe in objective morality and NEVER stated otherwise.

[FONT=&quot]Because everything is composed of energy, then you believe all that exists is energy. So this leads you to the conclusion that angels and demons as beings cannot exist and I suppose since you said there are NO beings you are saying human beings such as you or me don’t exist.
[/FONT]

That is correct, we do not exist. Only Spirit / God exists.

 

[1137]

We exist as a piece of a whole, but the illusion of separation is just that: illusion.

 

[InChrist]

Straw man much? I am saying that what opposes you you'll label demonic and what aids you you'll label angelic. In reality, the force that opposes you may be testing you and the force keeping you comfy is your worst enemy. I believe in objective morality and NEVER stated otherwise.

Okay, thank you for clarifying. I wasn't trying to create a straw man argument, but just trying to understand the extent of your perspective. I did not mean to sound as though I assume you do not believe in objective morality.

That is correct, we do not exist. Only Spirit / God exists.

[/QUOTE]

Again, my time is limited now, but hope to get back to this.

 

[InChrist]

That is correct, we do not exist. Only Spirit / God exists.

If we do not exist, then what is the point of you and me having this discussion? This question is sincere, not sarcastic. What then is the value or importance of human relationships and love for one another?

Am I correct to conclude that when you mean Spirit/God, as in only God exists and God is everything then you do not believe in a Personal, Transcendent God? Would you agree your view is founded in Pantheism?

I have read the OT too many times to count. I never really had a choice. I have also read the NT plenty of times, although not nearly as much as the OT or more interesting and useful books. I don't accept any religion fully, what is the chance that ONE is going to be completely right?

[FONT=&quot]I think there is a difference between religion and revelation and therefore I don’t think any religion is right, only God and His revelation is fully right.[/FONT]

Christianity, to me, is the ultimate logical fallacy. It is one, extremely large straw man argument.

[FONT=&quot]I would be interested in hearing (reading) the reasons you think so.


I would like to thank you for this discussion, thus far. I appreciate it because I can tell you are sincere and that spiritual matters are meaningful and important to you. Although we have vastly different perspectives, I appreciate your demeanor of respect.
[/FONT]

 

[InChrist]

We exist as a piece of a whole, but the illusion of separation is just that: illusion.

Do you mean we exist as a segments of energy, but we really do not exist as unique persons/personalities?

 

[Orias]

They are only the same in that they are created angelic beings, but their characters are now vastly different. Angels serve their Creator, minster aid to humanity, and do good. Demons serve Satan and are the enemies of the Creator and humans, deceiving humanity and perpetuating evil.

I myself have many contrasting characteristics.

Slaves in general, serve with no purpose other than to be.

Whether or not good or bad is an option, failure certainly is one that has yet to be shown in both light and dark.

Only humans are capable of deceiving themselves.