Occultism

[1137]

I really don't understand the arrogance that arises up within people to think they are smarter than God or know how things should be better than the self-existing eternal Creator, but I know this attitude happens because I've experienced it enough in my own life.

I think God itself probably regrets it. God interpenetrates all of our perceived reality here. It experiences the ignorance and spiritual immaturity of the masses, and I am pretty sure that is unenjoyable. In fact, the more you blindly follow man and ignore God, the more God hates you. Yes, God hates people, I believe it. As above, so below. Everything starts neutral, from there love and respect is earned. If you have not earned God's love in respect, He will not love and respect you. We are not smarter than God, such a thing is impossible. We have equal intelligence, as there is NO difference between our soul and the Divine besides what is caused by the illusion of duality.

 

[InChrist]

I think God itself probably regrets it. God interpenetrates all of our perceived reality here. It experiences the ignorance and spiritual immaturity of the masses, and I am pretty sure that is unenjoyable. In fact, the more you blindly follow man and ignore God, the more God hates you. Yes, God hates people, I believe it. As above, so below. Everything starts neutral, from there love and respect is earned. If you have not earned God's love in respect, He will not love and respect you. We are not smarter than God, such a thing is impossible. We have equal intelligence, as there is NO difference between our soul and the Divine besides what is caused by the illusion of duality.

I have a friend who at one time used to be involved in various metaphysical beliefs and practices. One day as she was deep in meditation focusing on "her god and power within" she heard a powerful voice. Whether or not it was audible or directly speaking in her mind I don't recall. What she heard was," I am not within you. I am above you. I am God, you are not. I am above you." This was a turning point for her as she realized that God was outside of her and above all creation.

I think you have a god of your own creation created in your own confused imagination totally different from the Creator who made heaven and earth.





Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Romans 1:22-23

For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:7-8



P.S. I have to go plant some flowers now, but I pray you have a blessed evening celebrating Seder/Passover with your family.

 

[1137]

I have a friend who at one time used to be involved in various metaphysical beliefs and practices. One day as she was deep in meditation focusing on "her god and power within" she heard a powerful voice. Whether or not it was audible or directly speaking in her mind I don't recall. What she heard was," I am not within you. I am above you. I am God, you are not. I am above you." This was a turning point for her as she realized that God was outside of her and above all creation.

If it was speaking in her mind, then it came from within. Seems like an adversarial test to me, one your friend failed. A voice from within saying it isn't within...

I think you have a god of your own creation created in your own confused imagination totally different from the Creator who made heaven and earth.

I am quite sure that I haven't created this God. I would create an all loving, involved God who granted salvation after simple submission... Much like the Christian God, actually. I like the idea, but I made a choice for Truth over comfort lonv ago, and now I have to deal with that.

[/I]P.S. I have to go plant some flowers now, but I pray you have a blessed evening celebrating Seder/Passover with your family.

Thank you! Have a good evening, I look forward to continuing our discussion.

 

[Orias]

I did not say that I don't think my beliefs are relevant for all humankind. I wouldn't have started this thread if I didn't think it was relevant. I said... I am not saying what you or anyone should or should not do. There is a difference. I do feel that it is very relevant for everyone to realize that involvement with the occult gives Satan and/or demons access and control of one's life. Now, whether or not anyone chooses to accept or believe this or what one does or doesn't do is with this information is entirely up to them.

It does indeed give them control, but have you also realized by with your own forthcoming you are also giving them control?

It is the opposition, the best one can do is embrace existence and coexist as nature intends.

Heh, as the paradox may be.

 

[InChrist]

It does indeed give them control, but have you also realized by with your own forthcoming you are also giving them control?

It is the opposition, the best one can do is embrace existence and coexist as nature intends.

Heh, as the paradox may be.

My life is willingly submitted to and controlled only by Jesus Christ to whom the demons must also submit, though unwillingly.

 

[1137]

My life is willingly submitted to and controlled only by Jesus Christ to whom the demons must also submit, though unwillingly.

You sacrificed your Free Will for a chance at salvation? The Creator gave us free will for a reason, probably to test for those worthy of His love and respect. If your choice is to give up that free will in hope of an easy ride to salvation, I would say that you most likely will not have earned the Creator's respect. I believe that Christianity teaches that suicide is a sin, mainly because the Creator gave us life and we have no right to end it. Well, the Creator gave Free Will, so why is it not bad to commit spiritual suicide?

 

[InChrist]

If it was speaking in her mind, then it came from within. Seems like an adversarial test to me, one your friend failed. A voice from within saying it isn't within...

[FONT=&quot]No wonder that you can’t or won't believe in the pure word of God, you complicate things, don’t take things at face value, and must re-interpret the meaning of things to fit your esoteric mindset. My friend had no doubt that the One and only True God who created heaven and earth, including her life, told her loud and clear that He was God and she was not, nor did He dwell in her under her control, He was above her. This changed her entire perspective and life’s direction from elevating self to serving her Maker and others. [/FONT]

I am quite sure that I haven't created this God. I would create an all loving, involved God who granted salvation after simple submission... Much like the Christian God, actually. I like the idea, but I made a choice for Truth over comfort lonv ago, and now I have to deal with that.

[FONT=&quot] I too, have made the choice for truth… over deception. Every day, I ask God to keep me alert and protect me from deception because I spent so much of my life before being delivered and saved under deception and believing false teachings. From my own life before Christ I know how easy it is for humans to believe whatever sounds good or spiritual. Now I see the message of God’s love, forgiveness, salvation, and eternal life is clear and straightforward and easy enough for anyone to understand, even a child. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who says that truth cannot be simple? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]While the gospel message is not complicated, I am not sure where you get the idea that it is comfortable to be a believer in Christ. It brings peace and joy, but not always comfort, especially for believers in countries or historical settings where persecution is/was prevalent.
[/FONT]

 

[InChrist]

You sacrificed your Free Will for a chance at salvation? The Creator gave us free will for a reason, probably to test for those worthy of His love and respect. If your choice is to give up that free will in hope of an easy ride to salvation, I would say that you most likely will not have earned the Creator's respect. I believe that Christianity teaches that suicide is a sin, mainly because the Creator gave us life and we have no right to end it. Well, the Creator gave Free Will, so why is it not bad to commit spiritual suicide?

It doesn't work that way. When a person gives up attempting to exalt themselves and places their trust wholly in the Creator He gives new life and eternal life which is truly free. The reality according to scriptures is that no one is free outside of God's way of salvation. Adam and Eve were originally free and given dominion of the earth, but they gave up their freedom to sin and Satan (who appeared in the form of the serpent), Since then everyone has been in bondage to sin and Satan. I believe God gave us our will to allow us to freely choose to love and Know Him, but of course that involves the risk that some may refuse His love choosing self-love instead.

Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. Luke 17:33

 

[1137]

[FONT=&quot]No wonder that you can’t or won't believe in the pure word of God, you complicate things, don’t take things at face value, and must re-interpret the meaning of things to fit your esoteric mindset.

This is 100% true, and I am very proud of it. I refuse to take things at face value and over simplify them. I see no reason in believing in God and Spirituality if it is overly simple.

My friend had no doubt that the One and only True God who created heaven and earth, including her life, told her loud and clear that He was God and she was not, nor did He dwell in her under her control, He was above her. This changed her entire perspective and life’s direction from elevating self to serving her Maker and others.

[/FONT]

So then what about all the people who hear God from within, telling them of His power within them and their innate power from Him? How about the people who are miserable in Christianity and overly simplified, face value beliefs and find peace and happiness in the Occult? You cannot except evidence one way and reject it the other, that is confirmation bias.

[FONT=&quot]

I too, have made the choice for truth… over deception. Every day, I ask God to keep me alert and protect me from deception because I spent so much of my life before being delivered and saved under deception and believing false teachings. From my own life before Christ I know how easy it is for humans to believe whatever sounds good or spiritual.

Firstly, if everything is simple and can be taken at face value, how can you be deceived in the first place? Second, you believe that you can take things at face value, Spiritual truth is simple, salvation is an easy handout, things are black and white, good and evil are obvious, etc, and you are saying that others like myself are the ones wanting to accept what "sounds good", what is comfortable? That is quite funny.

Now I see the message of God’s love, forgiveness, salvation, and eternal life is clear and straightforward and easy enough for anyone to understand, even a child.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who says that truth cannot be simple? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]While the gospel message is not complicated, I am not sure where you get the idea that it is comfortable to be a believer in Christ. It brings peace and joy, but not always comfort, especially for believers in countries or historical settings where persecution is/was prevalent.[/FONT]

Truth cannot be simple because rewards are not just handed out. Salvation should be earned. The way things work in Christianity makes no sense to me. A child rapist can earn salvation by accepting Christ but a great man who volunteers with the dying and tutors children will be tortured for eternity since he rejects the ideas of Christianity. Utterly ridiculous line of thought.

Christians often pull this self victimization card. Yes, you are all so very persecuted. One day maybe you will be accepted enough to have one of your own as president of America... maybe 44 times in a row even! Maybe you will one day be the majority of the population! Maybe you will be able to force your beliefs upon entire countries with little opposition, or maybe you will be able to slaughter those who disagree with you, or start absolutely B.S. panics against groups that you view evil...

 

[1137]

It doesn't work that way. When a person gives up attempting to exalt themselves and places their trust wholly in the Creator He gives new life and eternal life which is truly free.

See, I don't believe this. Everyone has a soul, therefore "eternal life".

The reality according to scriptures is that no one is free outside of God's way of salvation. Adam and Eve were originally free and given dominion of the earth, but they gave up their freedom to sin and Satan (who appeared in the form of the serpent), Since then everyone has been in bondage to sin and Satan.

First of all, they exercised their free will by eating from the tree and listening to the serpent. They were limited before, unaware of their free will and slaves to submission. The serpent liberated them and gave them freedom. Second, the serpent is not the devil. I really cannot comprehend why Christians cannot understand this: the writers of the Torah did not believe in Christian mythology!!!!!!

I believe God gave us our will to allow us to freely choose to love and Know Him, but of course that involves the risk that some may refuse His love choosing self-love instead.

Well, again, God is in us and we are in Him. We are made in God's image, a mirror reflection of His light you could say. So, self love is love of God, love of god is self love. God gave us the free will work for salvation, to know Him, etc. I work at it constantly, you believe that quoting a book and sacrificing your Self and free will for submission is accomplishing anything. If we are made in God's image, and you are destroying your Self, you are destroying God's image. Pure blasphemy.

 

[blackout]

I see that every-one has their own view of 'reality'.
(subjective/0bjective overlay)

Thus every/each individual will have their own take on 'truth'.

I find it humorous that people feel others should see the world the way they do.

 

[InChrist]

This is 100% true, and I am very proud of it. I refuse to take things at face value and over simplify them. I see no reason in believing in God and Spirituality if it is overly simple.



So then what about all the people who hear God from within, telling them of His power within them and their innate power from Him? How about the people who are miserable in Christianity and overly simplified, face value beliefs and find peace and happiness in the Occult? You cannot except evidence one way and reject it the other, that is confirmation bias.

Everyone hears any number of voices and spiritual thoughts, ideas, or teachings throughout their lives so how does one determine the truth? I believe truth is found by sincerely seeking God's input and comparing or testing everything by the scriptures.

Firstly, if everything is simple and can be taken at face value, how can you be deceived in the first place? Second, you believe that you can take things at face value, Spiritual truth is simple, salvation is an easy handout, things are black and white, good and evil are obvious, etc, and you are saying that others like myself are the ones wanting to accept what "sounds good", what is comfortable? That is quite funny.

It is easy for humans to be deceived because the sinful human nature likes to hear and believe things that appeal to the flesh and pride. It sounds so good to hear the message that you can practice certain techniques and you will acquire deeper spiritual insight, power, or points with God. The gospel grace is simple, but giving up SELF is not easy for anyone.

Truth cannot be simple because rewards are not just handed out. Salvation should be earned. The way things work in Christianity makes no sense to me. A child rapist can earn salvation by accepting Christ but a great man who volunteers with the dying and tutors children will be tortured for eternity since he rejects the ideas of Christianity. Utterly ridiculous line of thought.

According to the scriptures salvation is not a reward, it is a gift, A gift is not earned, but is freely given by the giver. The examples you've given are extreme and randomly taken out of real life context. Only God knows each persons heart and motives. He does not reward a child rapist, but any evil person may turn and repent from their wicked ways and receive a new life.

Christians often pull this self victimization card. Yes, you are all so very persecuted. One day maybe you will be accepted enough to have one of your own as president of America... maybe 44 times in a row even! Maybe you will one day be the majority of the population! Maybe you will be able to force your beliefs upon entire countries with little opposition, or maybe you will be able to slaughter those who disagree with you, or start absolutely B.S. panics against groups that you view evil...

[/quote]

I am not pulling any card, nor am I a victim. I was thinking of Christians in other countries who are truly suffering, which is what I indicated. Personally I am not in favor of mixing politics and Christianity so you can calm down. The gospel is not spread by force or slaughter and I believe any who do so are not demonstrating the love and truth of God.

 

[InChrist]

See, I don't believe this. Everyone has a soul, therefore "eternal life".

First of all, they exercised their free will by eating from the tree and listening to the serpent. They were limited before, unaware of their free will and slaves to submission. The serpent liberated them and gave them freedom. Second, the serpent is not the devil. I really cannot comprehend why Christians cannot understand this: the writers of the Torah did not believe in Christian mythology!!!!!!

God wrote the Torah using men and these writers understood the existence of demonic beings, although maybe not as fully as is possible now because He gave progressive and further information about the serpent/Satan.

So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Revelation 12:9

Well, again, God is in us and we are in Him. We are made in God's image, a mirror reflection of His light you could say. So, self love is love of God, love of god is self love. God gave us the free will work for salvation, to know Him, etc. I work at it constantly, you believe that quoting a book and sacrificing your Self and free will for submission is accomplishing anything. If we are made in God's image, and you are destroying your Self, you are destroying God's image. Pure blasphemy.

[/quote]

I have not sacrificed my freewill. It has been restored and it is God who has recreated me. Anyway, when you say you work constantly at it, what do you mean?

 

[1137]

God wrote the Torah using men and these writers understood the existence of demonic beings,

False. There weren't demonic beings, there were adversarial forces who were OF GOD that did things, such as ha-satan. But they did not believe in demonic beings as you do to the best of our knowledge. I cannot stress enough that the idea of God Jews hold is very different than Christians.

although maybe not as fully as is possible now because He gave progressive and further information about the serpent/Satan.

So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Revelation 12:9

This is why logic is important. Just because people thousands of years later came in and said the serpent was Satan does not make it so. That was not the intended meaning of the story, just the perverted one that just so happens to fit the Church's agenda.

I have not sacrificed my freewill. It has been restored and it is God who has recreated me. Anyway, when you say you work constantly at it, what do you mean?

I mean I look at things from every angle. I apply logic and facts to help fill in the gaps with faith. I practice different techniques trying to find the best way to know and reconnect with the source we come from. I have read the 'holy books' of many religions and many other texts.

 

[InChrist]

False. There weren't demonic beings, there were adversarial forces who were OF GOD that did things, such as ha-satan. But they did not believe in demonic beings as you do to the best of our knowledge.

How do you know this? I mean how is it that you have determined the prophets of the OT did not know about the existence of demonic beings, but instead considered such things as adversarial forces which were of God? For example this verse: They sacrificed to demons, not to God, To gods they did not know, To new gods, new arrivals That your fathers did not fear. Deuteronomy.32:17 Are you saying that the writer sees no distinction between the demons and God?

I cannot stress enough that the idea of God Jews hold is very different than Christians.

I readily agree there may be differences, but there is much in common especially concerning a Personal God verses idols/demons since Christianity is built upon the foundation of the OT prophets and just about all the first Christians were Jews.

This is why logic is important. Just because people thousands of years later came in and said the serpent was Satan does not make it so. That was not the intended meaning of the story, just the perverted one that just so happens to fit the Church's agenda.

]I certainly agree that just because people say something doesn’t make it true, unless what was said was inspired revelation from God. This is my perspective of the NT. Peter who was a Jew stated that no prophecy of scripture came from man, but was from God inspired by the Holy Spirit…(2 Peter 1:19-21). Paul also, who was Pharisee with understanding of the Torah, had quite a bit to say in reference to Satan and the demons. When you say “Church” I take it you mean with the connotation of a visible, organized religion like the Catholic Church, for example, rather than the biblical picture of the church. The only time the scriptures fit the agenda of any organized “Church” rather than God’s will is when their agenda is already perverted and they are twisting the scriptures to fit it. The scriptures do not promote any agenda, but God’s and His agenda is to save humanity from sin and Satan.

I mean I look at things from every angle. I apply logic and facts to help fill in the gaps with faith. I practice different techniques trying to find the best way to know and reconnect with the source we come from. I have read the 'holy books' of many religions and many other texts.

What is your criteria for knowing truth from error? Have you ever sought the counsel of the living personal God as did Abraham who was called God’s friend, or David who was called a man after God’s own heart? How do you know that all of your techniques or delving into various practices is not or hasn’t led you through doors of deception rather than perception, away from the true Creator God into idolatry as so often occurred in human and Israel’s history?

 

[1137]

How do you know this? I mean how is it that you have determined the prophets of the OT did not know about the existence of demonic beings, but instead considered such things as adversarial forces which were of God?

I misspoke, apologies. Of course there are beings like demons in Judaism, I know that very well. What I was trying to convey was that there was no Devil, as ha-satan was the Adversary. Satan is a title much like Lucifer, a title for an adversarial being. Besides this, Judaism believes all is of God, good and evil alike. After all, God is the Creator of All, not just some.

I readily agree there may be differences, but there is much in common especially concerning a Personal God verses idols/demons since Christianity is built upon the foundation of the OT prophets and just about all the first Christians were Jews.

The original point of this debate was Occultism. Most occultists I know view the forces the work with as personal, we are not idol worshipers. A statue of a God is only symbolic, much light the light above the Ark in Jewish synagogues. According to this logic of not worshiping Idols, Occultism is completely fine.

I certainly agree that just because people say something doesn’t make it true, unless what was said was inspired revelation from God.

So if a man says something, it does not make it true. But if a man says that something is a revelation of God, it automatically is and then what he says is true?

This is my perspective of the NT. Peter who was a Jew stated that no prophecy of scripture came from man, but was from God inspired by the Holy Spirit…(2 Peter 1:19-21).

So you admit that you do listen to what man says as the word of God? I mean how can you be expected to be a reliable source on what is divine and what is not when you believe that the people who edited the bible which they claim tells true stories which claims that a man claimed that all scriptures is divinely inspired is proof that it is God's word?

 

[InChrist]

I misspoke, apologies. Of course there are beings like demons in Judaism, I know that very well. What I was trying to convey was that there was no Devil, as ha-satan was the Adversary. Satan is a title much like Lucifer, a title for an adversarial being. Besides this, Judaism believes all is of God, good and evil alike. After all, God is the Creator of All, not just some.

If there are demons then why from your perspective can there not be Satan as the leader of the demons? Are you saying that God is His own adversary, enemy or that He is opposed to Himself? I don't know that much about Judaism, but this idea certainly does not sound orthodox and completely contradicts what God revealed about Himself to the Hebrew prophets and the nation of Israel concerning His hatred of evil. Are you basically saying that you believe in a god that is good and evil like the yin and yang concept?

The original point of this debate was Occultism. Most occultists I know view the forces the work with as personal, we are not idol worshipers. A statue of a God is only symbolic, much light the light above the Ark in Jewish synagogues. According to this logic of not worshiping Idols, Occultism is completely fine.

Since you are looking to some force, be it some unknown spiritual force or a force within yourself rather than the God or Creator who made you then what is the difference between this kind of occultism and idolatry?

So if a man says something, it does not make it true. But if a man says that something is a revelation of God, it automatically is and then what he says is true?

I don't believe anything someone says is automatically from God. I believe God gave the written word as the standard by which to test all such spiritual claims and we are commanded to test all things. If it contradicts the scriptures it is false.

So you admit that you do listen to what man says as the word of God? I mean how can you be expected to be a reliable source on what is divine and what is not when you believe that the people who edited the bible which they claim tells true stories which claims that a man claimed that all scriptures is divinely inspired is proof that it is God's word?[/size][/font]

[/quote]

Why do you think the Bible was edited? Are you repeating only what you have heard others say against it? Have you ever sincerely and prayerfully read it seeking God's insight and wisdom? I believe God's word vindicates and proves itself to any sincere seeker.

 

[1137]

If there are demons then why from your perspective can there not be Satan as the leader of the demons? Are you saying that God is His own adversary, enemy or that He is opposed to Himself? I don't know that much about Judaism, but this idea certainly does not sound orthodox and completely contradicts what God revealed about Himself to the Hebrew prophets and the nation of Israel concerning His hatred of evil.

I do not believe in a God weak enough to have a foe who could actually stand up to Him. I pointed out before that I believe The Creator wants people to prove their worth before he even bothers with them. In most cases, I feel that if someone "talked to God", it actually did not happen. By this I mean when God visits someone as a separate entity and speaks to them. This is not God. I see it as what you would probably call an "Angel". Firstly, let us take the metaphorical story of Moses and the Exodus. The burning bush was not God, I would say it was a force that spoke for God. Moses had not yet proved himself worthy in the eyes of the Creator. Then you have Moses having mystical experiences, the power of God working through him, after he proves that he is committed. Besides this, the acts God committed through Moses are horrific; killing children, drowning the Egyptians; you cannot claim God is meant to be seen as all loving.

Are you basically saying that you believe in a god that is good and evil like the yin and yang concept?

Actually, yes, in a way. The state of Nature itself is like the yin / yang, 100% balanced. This balance is caused by the Creator during creation. If God's "light" was not restricted, there would only be the pure light, therefore only God, therefore nothing to experience itself separately from God.

Since you are looking to some force, be it some unknown spiritual force or a force within yourself rather than the God or Creator who made you then what is the difference between this kind of occultism and idolatry?

Well you are missing the point. That force within myself IS God. Creator and Creation are not separated by anything except the illusion of Duality.

Why do you think the Bible was edited? Are you repeating only what you have heard others say against it? Have you ever sincerely and prayerfully read it seeking God's insight and wisdom? I believe God's word vindicates and proves itself to any sincere seeker.

We know for historical fact that the Bible has been edited, cut, retranslated, etc many times. There were groups of Church hierarchy who chose what writings would be put into the bible and what would not be. Besides this, simply look at 2 different English translations and see how different you are. The majority of Christians believe that Lucifer and The Devil are the same being, but this is based on a mistranslation that went viral! Therefore it is a false belief. That is just one example.

 

[InChrist]

I do not believe in a God weak enough to have a foe who could actually stand up to Him. I pointed out before that I believe The Creator wants people to prove their worth before he even bothers with them. In most cases, I feel that if someone "talked to God", it actually did not happen. By this I mean when God visits someone as a separate entity and speaks to them. This is not God. I see it as what you would probably call an "Angel". Firstly, let us take the metaphorical story of Moses and the Exodus. The burning bush was not God, I would say it was a force that spoke for God. Moses had not yet proved himself worthy in the eyes of the Creator. Then you have Moses having mystical experiences, the power of God working through him, after he proves that he is committed. Besides this, the acts God committed through Moses are horrific; killing children, drowning the Egyptians; you cannot claim God is meant to be seen as all loving.

I do not believe in a weak God either, but one who is powerful enough to create creatures with freewill and the ability to obey or rebel, yet, He the Creator is not threatened and remains in control. I don't think the burning bush was God, but I believe in a God who decides in what manner He appears and/or communicates with humanity. I guess since you say your god includes both good and evil then does this mean that evil is acceptable because it is a part of God? You seem to have said that Moses proved himself worthy to have the power of God working through him and then you talk about the crimes you claim God did through Moses.

I also believe in a God who is all-loving and just and He alone has the right to give and take live.

Actually, yes, in a way. The state of Nature itself is like the yin / yang, 100% balanced. This balance is caused by the Creator during creation. If God's "light" was not restricted, there would only be the pure light, therefore only God, therefore nothing to experience itself separately from God.

This may be true if God is a part of nature or creation, but according to the scriptures God is outside of creation.

Well you are missing the point. That force within myself IS God. Creator and Creation are not separated by anything except the illusion of Duality.

This is nonsense, a painter is not within the painting, an architect who designs a building is not the building, and God who created the universe is not confined within His creation. The scriptures attest that God is above creation, including us..

We know for historical fact that the Bible has been edited, cut, retranslated, etc many times. There were groups of Church hierarchy who chose what writings would be put into the bible and what would not be. Besides this, simply look at 2 different English translations and see how different you are. The majority of Christians believe that Lucifer and The Devil are the same being, but this is based on a mistranslation that went viral! Therefore it is a false belief. That is just one example.

[/quote]

I don't know at all of any historical fact that the Bible has been edited or cut in the negative way you are insinuating. It certainly has been translated (not re-translated) many times over and into many languages as God has intended through those whose lives have been committed to the Lord. It was God who moved through humans to orchestrate which writings compose the Bible, not any "Church" hierarchy, but this could be the subject of an entirely different thread. What the "Church" hierarchy did was prevent people from having the scriptures to read for themselves, God's truth.

The majority of Christians believe Lucifer and the devil are the same because this passage in Isaiah fits perfectly with the character of Satan revealed throughout the scriptures.

 

[1137]

I do not believe in a weak God either, but one who is powerful enough to create creatures with freewill and the ability to obey or rebel, yet, He the Creator is not threatened and remains in control. I don't think the burning bush was God, but I believe in a God who decides in what manner He appears and/or communicates with humanity. I guess since you say your god includes both good and evil then does this mean that evil is acceptable because it is a part of God? You seem to have said that Moses proved himself worthy to have the power of God working through him and then you talk about the crimes you claim God did through Moses.

You are thinking of good and evil in very finite and human terms. Understandable. I do not think that God actually causes evil, but there is 100% proof that if God exists he allows evil to happen. This is because, I believe, that God is beyond our finite, human sense of right and wrong. You are free to disagree.

I also believe in a God who is all-loving and just and He alone has the right to give and take live.

Warped sense of love... also a warped sense of perfection. So unbalanced and incomplete; all-lovingness.

This may be true if God is a part of nature or creation, but according to the scriptures God is outside of creation.

God transcends all nature and also interpenetrates all nature. Therefore God is inside all things, including you and I.

This is nonsense, a painter is not within the painting, an architect who designs a building is not the building, and God who created the universe is not confined within His creation. The scriptures attest that God is above creation, including us..

I disagree. Again, in finite, human terms you would say obviously that the painter and painting are separate. However, at a deeper level, the painter is in the paining, his soul is directly tied to it. Same with architecture; different architects will do things differently because they them Self are as important as everything else.

I don't know at all of any historical fact that the Bible has been edited or cut in the negative way you are insinuating. It certainly has been translated (not re-translated) many times over and into many languages as God has intended through those whose lives have been committed to the Lord. It was God who moved through humans to orchestrate which writings compose the Bible, not any "Church" hierarchy, but this could be the subject of an entirely different thread. What the "Church" hierarchy did was prevent people from having the scriptures to read for themselves, God's truth.

I would research this, if you believe it to be false. What I made bold is exactly why I cannot believe your scriptures are correct.

The majority of Christians believe Lucifer and the devil are the same because this passage in Isaiah fits perfectly with the character of Satan revealed throughout the scriptures.

Well, lucifer in Isaiah was the Babylonian king. The lucifer translation was made in the 2nd century I believe. It quickly came to be a story of The Devil falling, with no help from paradise lost. Just another perversion of Jewish scripture. If you willfully choose to follow a misinterpretation there is not much I can say...