Occultism

[The Sum of Awe]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The basic problem with divination is that, even though the diviner is sincerely attempting to contact God, the entities with which one ends up communicating are demons (posing as Jesus, God, angels, etc.)"
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tom McMahon—The Berean Call. ...[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]read more ...[/FONT]
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Yeah, that's definitely why Christianity used to practice divination itself.​

 

[Sylvan]

I find it interesting that the OP has time to repost random sections of books (isn't that against forum guidelines or something?) but not answer I or UV's posts.

 

[Me Myself]

"Occultic practices, which originate from “doctrines of devils” regarding universal energies and forces, do not suddenly become acceptable to the holy Lord God merely because churches have “Christianized” them and refer to them as “Christian.” On the contrary, these practices have been designed by the evil spirit world to bring unity and “connection” with the god of this world, “the God of forces,” whom the Antichrist will honor (e.g., see Daniel 11:38-39).

Those who try to “Christianize” occultic practices are playing with “strange fire.” It is not a coincidence that professing Christians who practice the occultic Eastern methods of “prayer” are being gradually drawn into the interfaith Oneness of the world and its (New Age) New Spirituality. This “New” Spirituality is actually based on the so-called “Ancient Wisdom.”

The fruit of the unholy spirits who lie in wait to deceive all who enter the Angel of light’s realm is destructive. Their ultimate goal is to get mankind to believe in its own divinity -- the ultimate defiance against the Lord God."

Excerpt from:
Herescope: Spiritual "Breathing"

Hard to contradict Jesus.

I always forget, which verse is this?

 

[1137]

I have done some further thinking on this topic. One of the main problems with Christians and similar religious people and the Occult seems to be the idea that we literally interact with the Christian Devil and demons. In general, none of us occultists believe in Christian mythology, other than perhaps symbolism. While a pseudo-satanic Devil Worshiper may worship the Christian Satan (as Devil Worshiping is actually a form of Christianity), the Traditional Satanist, Setian, LaVeyan Satanist, Luciferian, Thelemite, Wiccan, etc etc etc do not believe in such silly ideas. So, where the Church preaches that Occultism is bad when we interact with evil spirits, they are not saying anything against any forms of occultism than Devil Worshiping, which is an occult sect of Christianity itself. If one simply liberated themselves from ignorance, all these silly issues would go away. I feel the OP is not interested in doing so though.

 

[HerDotness]

As I see it, warnings against getting into the occult only apply to modern Christians. What those who don't accept their deity do as spiritual practices is none of Christianity's business, but since Christians so often consider themselves the arbiters of what's right and proper for everyone, it's no wonder that they think things like divination are off-limits for all and endeavor to dictate that as if they have any right to do so or their doing so has any relevance to those who don't accept their scriptures as authoritative.

Your scruples don't apply to anyone but yourselves, folks. That you've centuries of demonstrating that you are unwilling to mind your own business is largely why a number of the occult practices you revile simply aren't discussed in your presence by those who find them useful and valuable.

In short, mind your own damn business as occultists generally do where your spiritual practices are concerned.

 

[arcanum]

There is nothing esoteric or hidden about the gospel. The message of Christ is available to everyone and all who trust Him receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, it is simple and straightforward. The esoteric message you are advocating is another gospel contrary to God's Word.


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Contemplative Spirituality: A belief system that uses ancient mystical practices to induce altered states of consciousness (the silence) and is rooted in mysticism and the occult but is often wrapped in Christian terminology. The premise of contemplative spirituality is pantheistic (God is all) and panentheistic (God is in all).[/FONT]

Lighthouse Trails Research Project - Exposing Contemplative Spirituality

You my friend are stuck at the exoteric level, that's all you can see which is what your particular tradition has taught you to see. There are deeper levels to the NT but you are stuck at the surface level which is where your churches understanding is at. To say there is nothing esoteric in the the gospels is wrong, you just can't see it.....because your not allowed to see it. Go deeper, expand your lens to look beyond the narrow confines of your brand of Christianity. Start by pondering what Jesus meant when he said the kingdom of god is within you.

 

[InChrist]

I have done some further thinking on this topic. One of the main problems with Christians and similar religious people and the Occult seems to be the idea that we literally interact with the Christian Devil and demons. In general, none of us occultists believe in Christian mythology, other than perhaps symbolism. While a pseudo-satanic Devil Worshiper may worship the Christian Satan (as Devil Worshiping is actually a form of Christianity), the Traditional Satanist, Setian, LaVeyan Satanist, Luciferian, Thelemite, Wiccan, etc etc etc do not believe in such silly ideas. So, where the Church preaches that Occultism is bad when we interact with evil spirits, they are not saying anything against any forms of occultism than Devil Worshiping, which is an occult sect of Christianity itself. If one simply liberated themselves from ignorance, all these silly issues would go away. I feel the OP is not interested in doing so though.

According to the scriptures which claim to be the word and revelation to humanity from the Creator of heaven and earth the spiritual being of Satan or the devil is not classified as “Christian”. He is a powerful spiritual and personal being, much more powerful than any human being, who along with his demon followers, are the enemy of the Creator and humanity with the intent purpose of the destruction of each individual. You may use the word silly in reference to this idea of the devil, but I think the word “foolish” with the adjective “dangerously” is more appropriate for anyone who ignorantly tampers with these powerful forces. Humans have no way of fully understanding the spiritual realm or its dangers apart from the revelation of the Creator. Christians, Wiccans, Satanists or whoever are ignorant when we depend upon our own intellect or understanding concerning the spiritual realm and I believe it is dangerous foolish to do so. I was not taught to believe this through any church or pastor it is something I learned the hard way through experience.





They shall no more offer their sacrifices to demons, after whom they have played the harlot. This shall be a statute forever for them throughout their generations.”’ Lev. 17:7

‘Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God. Lev. 19:31

‘You shall have no other gods before Me. Deut. 5:7

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 1 Peter 5:8

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 2 COR, 11:14

 

[1137]

Well, whatever is comfortable works for some people. You confuse complexity with evil, when they are quite different. The inability to understand and use occult knowledge does not make it evil, it simply makes you unprepared. I see nothing wrong with that, eventually in your eternal spiritual journey you will understand. As for now, just don't interfere with the unharmful Will of others and all is good.

 

[Sylvan]

I used to be wary of 'evil' spirits but now I think they totally rule. Really keep you on your toes. Not for dabblers.

 

[1137]

I used to be wary of 'evil' spirits but now I think they totally rule. Really keep you on your toes. Not for dabblers.

Very true. It requires a commitment. This is why dabblers fail and become Christian.

 

[Quintessence]

What I don't understand is that if you can't depend on your own intellect, what the blazes are you supposed to depend on? Even if you're getting your information from some external authority, it's still being interpreted by your brain (your intellect). By the gods, do some people really have that little trust in themselves? That is very sad to me.

And yes, working with the forbidden/taboo is quite interesting. It's also not for everyone.

"They condemn what they do not understand"
--- J.J. Coughlin

 

[HerDotness]

We're getting a typical demo, IMO, of the extent to which Christians think their beliefs apply to everyone.

I don't believe in your God; I think your scriptures are a bunch of stories, some of them really horrible, and I really don't care to hear more about what you think I should or shouldn't be doing.

It's NONE...read that again, NONE of your business what I believe and do.

 

[Draka]

According to the scriptures which claim to be the word and revelation to humanity from the Creator of heaven and earth the spiritual being of Satan or the devil is not classified as “Christian”. He is a powerful spiritual and personal being, much more powerful than any human being, who along with his demon followers, are the enemy of the Creator and humanity with the intent purpose of the destruction of each individual. You may use the word silly in reference to this idea of the devil, but I think the word “foolish” with the adjective “dangerously” is more appropriate for anyone who ignorantly tampers with these powerful forces. Humans have no way of fully understanding the spiritual realm or its dangers apart from the revelation of the Creator. Christians, Wiccans, Satanists or whoever are ignorant when we depend upon our own intellect or understanding concerning the spiritual realm and I believe it is dangerous foolish to do so. I was not taught to believe this through any church or pastor it is something I learned the hard way through experience.

"Satan" may not be "Christian", in that the character may not be a follower of Christ. But to say he isn't part of the religion of Christianity and an Abrahamic character is not right. People who do not believe in and do not follow Abrahamic religions do not even believe in such a character. That mythology has nothing to do with theirs, so why would they have anything they do connected with it? That would be like a Druid making an offering to Horus. Wrong pantheon. You keep your mythological pantheon and everyone else can keep theirs and leave each other alone.

 

[InChrist]

We're getting a typical demo, IMO, of the extent to which Christians think their beliefs apply to everyone.

I don't believe in your God; I think your scriptures are a bunch of stories, some of them really horrible, and I really don't care to hear more about what you think I should or shouldn't be doing.

It's NONE...read that again, NONE of your business what I believe and do.

I am in no way saying what you should or shouldn't be doing since that is not really my desire at all or within my capacity anyway. But I care about people and I feel compelled to give warning concerning something which I believe is very dangerous for humans to become involved in...contact with powerful demonic beings.

You are correct that it is none of my business what you believe or do. This thread is about expressing my sincere concern on the subject of occultism, it is not about your business or telling you what to do or not do, that is your choice. If you prefer not to hear about what I think then just stop reading my posts.

 

[InChrist]

"Satan" may not be "Christian", in that the character may not be a follower of Christ. But to say he isn't part of the religion of Christianity and an Abrahamic character is not right. People who do not believe in and do not follow Abrahamic religions do not even believe in such a character. That mythology has nothing to do with theirs, so why would they have anything they do connected with it? That would be like a Druid making an offering to Horus. Wrong pantheon. You keep your mythological pantheon and everyone else can keep theirs and leave each other alone.

Most religions have their "evil spirits". The biblical perspective is that their is One True Creator and any evil spirits or demonic beings are followers of Satan working behind the scenes no matter the religion or belief system and whether or not the humans involved are aware of or believe in such a being as Satan.

 

[Draka]

Most religions have their "evil spirits". The biblical perspective is that their is One True Creator and any evil spirits or demonic beings are followers of Satan working behind the scenes no matter the religion or belief system and whether or not the humans involved are aware of or believe in such a being as Satan.

Doesn't make the "biblical perspective" right though. Just as much as you can say your view that what someone else worships is of your Satan character, they can say you worship a minor god that is a narcissistic reject of Mount Olympus who just built up one hell of a story to con a lot of people into worshiping him. You have about as much proof of your stance as someone else would for that stance. So, unless you like being told that your god is a cruel conman rejected by other gods, my suggestion would be to save your "concern" for others because they probably want to hear it even less.

 

[HerDotness]

I am in no way saying what you should or shouldn't be doing since that is not really my desire at all or within my capacity anyway. But I care about people and I feel compelled to give warning concerning something which I believe is very dangerous for humans to become involved in...contact with powerful demonic beings.

Then, do explain how this statement of yours doesn't indicate that you feel your beliefs are relevant to all humankind:

According to the scriptures which claim to be the word and revelation to humanity from the Creator of heaven and earth the spiritual being of Satan or the devil is not classified as “Christian”. He is a powerful spiritual and personal being, much more powerful than any human being, who along with his demon followers, are the enemy of the Creator and humanity with the intent purpose of the destruction of each individual.

If that doesn't say that your Satan is real and every human should beware of his malign influence, then what was your meaning? "Creator of heaven and earth"--your idea of deity. "Demon followers," "enemy of the Creator and humanity," etc.--all Christian understandings which you seem to indicate everyone ought to take heed of because there's no question they're actual and have relevance to everyone whether Christian or not.

I neglected to add reference to your last posting and should have, because it makes still more clear that you think your beliefs apply to everyone and that you, like too many Christians, feel it your duty and obligation to impose upon and patronize others.

Most religions have their "evil spirits". The biblical perspective is that their is One True Creator and any evil spirits or demonic beings are followers of Satan working behind the scenes no matter the religion or belief system and whether or not the humans involved are aware of or believe in such a being as Satan.

This is the classic, "Oh, but I know better than you do. One of these days, you'll be very sorry indeed you didn't heed my warning."

To claim "I am in no way saying what you should or shouldn't be doing" is laughable since every word of your "warnings" points up what a blatant lie that statement is.

 

[Orias]

Occult means something covered or concealed from view. Occultism is the belief in or study of the action or influence of supernatural powers and the practice of gaining hidden knowledge.



According to God’s revelation in the biblical scriptures there are only two sources of knowledge, information, and spiritual or supernatural aid available for humans. One may seek answers and aid from the Creator of heaven and earth or through various avenues or occultism all of which lead to Satan. The scriptures forbid humans from contact or seeking information or power from sources other than God the Creator Himself because Satan is always ready to accommodate those who seek wisdom, understanding, or power apart from the true God, with counterfeit information and substitutes for the truth.



The Creator wanted Adam and Eve, Israel in the OT and wants humans today to attain knowledge, not through listening to another, self-discovery, or any other method, but through accurate revelation given by Him to His creation. All methods of seeking to unveil hidden knowledge, ascertain future events, uncover secret wisdom, or exercise supernatural power outside of God’s revelation are all forms of occultism and are condemned as sorcery by God in the scriptures, for good reason. They are dangerous and open one to the lies, deception, bondage and control of Satan.

How many people in the world today having no desire for God's revelation have already been involved with occultism in some way?

I think if you think about it a little more when you point a finger you will see three pointing at you (unless you point with all five fingers heh).

I think you understand the metaphor here.

Throughout my life I've always been a "Satanist" even at a young age when I had no idea what it was I just wanted to be. Growing up I had no interest in God or anything, but in the later years I think its safe to say that I have found God because of my "Satanicness".

Don't get me wrong, I don't see them literally and I don't think they exist separately in distinct forms. I see all entities as existing as one yet speaking in many different voices, in you and me and even the space between us.

Though I do not worship man has a deity, I love and respect his intuition and the desire to seek that which we call knowledge. There is a star within everyone of us, and this star has the potential to shine brightly or go out with a devastating bang.

You can think that I haven't really found "God" because of the path I chose, but in the end I don't think I ever really chose my path.


Throughout my studies I have searched for meanings and interpretations in attempt to define God, I have looked from the ancients to the innovators and I saw only one difference.

The ancients were sincere in their heart felt gratitude for their unknowing, the more modern and innovative methods are all relaxed on the shoulders of an honest grouping which as you could imagine leads to burden and corruption.

In terms of "knowing God", I'm fairly certain that I know he exists just not that he exists in favor of. This is simply because I think it is a mistake to place trust in something that so many people know of.

Think of the wu-wei and expand the horizon. I love because I don't love those things and people I am not aware of, though in totality the love is there because as I meet and interact new people that I get a long with I develop "love".

Effortless effort, the wu-wei. Most labels and perceptions are gateways to the sleep, where the genetic knowledge speaks.

Geeze....talk about a rant eh?

 

[1137]

You are correct that it is none of my business what you believe or do. This thread is about expressing my sincere concern on the subject of occultism, it is not about your business or telling you what to do or not do, that is your choice. If you prefer not to hear about what I think then just stop reading my posts.

I am concerned about people who allow others to influence all their thoughts and beliefs, forcing an even greater wedge between Man and God. You follow a religion of other men, their interpretations, their writings, their beliefs, etc. The only way not to do so is to have some self reliance at least. If you do not listen to what is "in your heart" you are just a slave to others beliefs and Will. If you are a creature of GOD, then why are you not looking into God's actual creation (you) rather than the words and writings of others? Do you care about God or others?

 

[InChrist]

Then, do explain how this statement of yours doesn't indicate that you feel your beliefs are relevant to all humankind:

According to the scriptures which claim to be the word and revelation to humanity from the Creator of heaven and earth the spiritual being of Satan or the devil is not classified as “Christian”. He is a powerful spiritual and personal being, much more powerful than any human being, who along with his demon followers, are the enemy of the Creator and humanity with the intent purpose of the destruction of each individual.

If that doesn't say that your Satan is real and every human should beware of his malign influence, then what was your meaning? "Creator of heaven and earth"--your idea of deity. "Demon followers," "enemy of the Creator and humanity," etc.--all Christian understandings which you seem to indicate everyone ought to take heed of because there's no question they're actual and have relevance to everyone whether Christian or not.

I did not say that I don't think my beliefs are relevant for all humankind. I wouldn't have started this thread if I didn't think it was relevant. I said... I am not saying what you or anyone should or should not do. There is a difference. I do feel that it is very relevant for everyone to realize that involvement with the occult gives Satan and/or demons access and control of one's life. Now, whether or not anyone chooses to accept or believe this or what one does or doesn't do is with this information is entirely up to them.