Occultism

[Me Myself]

I do think God is beyond human comprehension, but I believe God understands our limitations. Therefore, I believe He reaches down to our level and has revealed Himself in simple ways we can understand. This is what the scriptures express. What if you are making things concerning God more complex than they really are and are missing the reality God wants you to see?

Of course he reaches down to our level on a lot of numerous ways.

He is also infinetely above us though, and if he reaches down for us the least we can do is follow him up. It´s the best for us, and he wants the best for us

What if by trying to make something so simple for you to understand in your current state of mind you are missing out on ways of experiencing him way beyond your current imagination? Because he is waiting for you

You may take your time though. Jesus believed in reincarnation

 

[1137]

I do think God is beyond human comprehension, but I believe God understands our limitations. Therefore, I believe He reaches down to our level and has revealed Himself in simple ways we can understand. This is what the scriptures express. What if you are making things concerning God more complex than they really are and are missing the reality God wants you to see?

God is not going to pity us though, we have choices to make and are responsible for them. I understand why one must form and hold simple views of such complex things, unknowable things perhaps, but I personally do not fear the unknown, myself, nor whatever may come upon being greater than a mere human here. Being human may be your thing, but I personally tire of it, and I plan on moving on.

[FONT=&quot]I did not claim to understand Judaism. I said I basically understand the OT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot].I would like to discuss this idea: "When the messiah comes there will be peace, which there has not been for the past 2,000 years like there would be if Christ was the messiah.". but it is getting late now, so maybe sometime in the next few days.[/FONT]

So you think the OT and Judaism are unrelated then? Or what, I am confused. I do not see what there is to discuss about the fact that Christ neither was nor would have claimed to be the messiah, logic and evidence kind of solve that, but I will await your post.

 

[Sylvan]

These verses describe what takes place in the life of one who places their faith in the Person of Jesus Christ. Occultism involves ones faith in the method, ritual, or technique they perform and the subsequent experience

their faith in the Person of Jesus Christ =
the method, ritual, or technique they perform and the subsequent experience (and related social programming, etc)

 

[Student of X]

I don't need to read an entire book of jokes to know it is a book containing humor. I don't have to read a whole U.S. History book to realize it is a book about American history. And I don't have to read an entire book of ecumenical mysticism to know that it is promoting occult spirituality, universalism, sorcery, and is totally contrary to God's Word.

Yes, you do. Otherwise a policy of ignorance and false knowledge is the result. No one can respect a religion based on willful ignorance. So by promoting a policy of ignorance, you are not doing Christianity any favors.

Basically, you're sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting la-la-la-I-can't-hear-you-la-la-la while you post your opinions.

Not cool.

I believe that 'fundamentalism' is the 'false prophet'. Ironic, isn't it. Spoiled milk is being passed around among some of the immature infants in Christ. I think you accidentally drank some.

''Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom. We impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glorification... What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him, God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.'' (1 Cor. 2:6-7, 9-10)

Baby sister, it takes a mystic to know what that means.

 

[blackout]

Apparently I have developed invisible occultic posting powers...

 

[blackout]

Yes, you do. Otherwise a policy of ignorance is the result. No one can respect a religion based on willful ignorance. So by promoting a policy of ignorance, you are not doing Christianity any favors.

Basically, you're sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting la-la-la-I-can't-hear-you-la-la-la while you just post your dogmatic assumptions.

Not cool.

I believe that fundamentalism is the 'false prophet'. Ironic, isn't it. Spoiled milk is being passed around among some of the immature infants in Christ.

''Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom. We impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glorification... What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him, God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.'' (1 Cor. 2:6-7, 9-10)

Baby sister, it takes a real mystic to know what that really means.

It takes a real mystic to know that mysticism
has nothing at all INTRINSICALLY to do with 'christianity'.

Though you CAN 'translate' and package the experience in 'christian' dialect,
if you like.

 

[InChrist]

So you think the OT and Judaism are unrelated then? Or what, I am confused. I do not see what there is to discuss about the fact that Christ neither was nor would have claimed to be the messiah, logic and evidence kind of solve that, but I will await your post.

I certainly do not think the OT and Judaism are unrelated. I just meant that Judaism has had many traditions and teachings of humans added to it that are outside of the scriptures and therefore Judaism as a religion is not solely based on God' revelation. The life of Jesus Christ precisely fulfilled dozens of specific prophecies, concerning details about the Messiah, which were given centuries before He came to earth. Though He was definitely Jewish, Christ did make claims that would be considered blasphemous and arrogant, unless He is the Son of God. He never did deny being the Messiah or Savior.



Besides the OT prophecies concerning the kingdom and peace the Messiah would establish there were prophecies that show He would be despised and rejected, that His life would be cut off, but not for Himself, and those which gave detailed descriptions of His death. Because the majority of people in Israel at the time were only focused on the establishment of the kingdom prophecies they missed or ignored the ones concerning His death and His coming as the Lamb of God for the sins of the people. The scriptures reveal that the Messiah came once to bring reconciliation and peace between humanity and God by paying the penalty for sin and that He will come again to bring physical peace to the earth through the nation of Israel from the throne of David, in Jerusalem.

 

[InChrist]

''Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom. We impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glorification... What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him, God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.'' (1 Cor. 2:6-7, 9-10)

Baby sister, it takes a mystic to know what that means.

No, the scriptures reveal what God's hidden wisdom is and means. These verses do not refer to some made-up "Christianized" practice of sorcery. In the NT the word mystery refers to truths of God which were previously hidden or unknown, but which are now revealed. Paul is speaking in these verses about God's plan of salvation through GRACE, something that was unknown before when God was working through the LAW. This mystery of salvation and grace now revealed includes the truth that those (Jew or Gentile) who place faith in Christ were predestined to be indwelt by the Spirit and conformed to the image of Christ. This hidden wisdom or mystery of God from ages past is no longer hidden to those in Christ, as it has been revealed and is taking place in the lives of born again believers.This is revealed in several places in the scriptures (Eph. Ch.1. 3;1-6 ; Col.1:24-27; 2;2-3) for anyone to read. There is no need to practice mysticism or sorcery to understand God's revealed truth. Simply trust Christ and read the scriptures.

 

[InChrist]

Of course he reaches down to our level on a lot of numerous ways.

He is also infinetely above us though, and if he reaches down for us the least we can do is follow him up. It´s the best for us, and he wants the best for us

Yes, God is infinitely above us and we should follow Him, but the method of following must be according to the way He has determined humanity must come to Him… Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6.

What if by trying to make something so simple for you to understand in your current state of mind you are missing out on ways of experiencing him way beyond your current imagination? Because he is waiting for you

Jesus is not waiting for me because I already belong to Christ and am seated with Him above…"But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus" .Eph. 2:4-7

Have you given your life to Him or is He still waiting for you?

You may take your time though. Jesus believed in reincarnation

[/quote]

Jesus does not believe in reincarnation, nor did He ever teach it. He taught and spoke only of resurrection as does the rest of the NT.

 

[Me Myself]

Jesus does not believe in reincarnation, nor did He ever teach it. He taught and spoke only of resurrection as does the rest of the NT.

Who is John the Baptist?

 

[Student of X]

No, the scriptures reveal what God's hidden wisdom is and means.

No, the scriptures are words on a page that you see with your eyes. Hence,

"...what no eye has seen"

And that sermon you just listened to in your Church? Mere grunting noises...vibrations in the air. Hence,

"...nor ear heard"

Compared to Gods direct mystical revelation, words on a page or the grunting sermon of a human are...like children's toys, baby sister. Toys are important and have a legitimate place but sooner or later infants in Christ need to grow up. There is more to God than the toys of orthodoxy.

In the NT the word mystery refers to truths of God which were previously hidden or unknown, but which are now revealed. Paul is speaking in these verses about God's plan of salvation through GRACE, something that was unknown before when God was working through the LAW.

Yes, and what Grace means, is that if it pleases God you could end up having the mystical experience of rebirth at any time, spontaneously, through the Grace of God instead of through years of mystical purification and practice and study.

It doesn't mean that you can just sit there in your pew regurgitating dogma and demonizing other people and then expect to be saved. You have to undergo ego-death yourself, in order to be reborn yourself. Salvation/rebirth is a profound mystical experience of transformation and liberation, not a warm fuzzy feeling you get after saying certain words in the right ceremonial context.

Lucky for you, if you don't get it in this life, you might in the next. After all, Jesus preached reincarnation.

 

[1137]

I certainly do not think the OT and Judaism are unrelated. I just meant that Judaism has had many traditions and teachings of humans added to it that are outside of the scriptures and therefore Judaism as a religion is not solely based on God' revelation.

While it is extremely and disturbingly sad that you believe the teachings of Christ and the Bible have not been altered by time and man, I must admit it is also slightly funny. The thing is though, the Torah is a living book, not to mentioned admittedly metaphorical. It evolves with the times, which is why Judaism is 5,000+ years old and thriving while Christianity is 2,000 years old and already crashing down.

The life of Jesus Christ precisely fulfilled dozens of specific prophecies, concerning details about the Messiah, which were given centuries before He came to earth. Though He was definitely Jewish, Christ did make claims that would be considered blasphemous and arrogant, unless He is the Son of God. He never did deny being the Messiah or Savior.

Well, as stated by both of us, the scripture is not the full word of God, as it has human touch (an never was meant to be the word of God anyways), so you probably shouldn't use it as a source. But, logic is lacking here so I will address this. I am not sure how you know what Christ did and did not claim, you were not there, nor was anyone currently alive. It is very easy to look at the OT, see what it prophesied, and change the factual account of Christ to fit it. IT really blows my mind that people cannot follow such simple and obvious logic.

Besides the OT prophecies concerning the kingdom and peace the Messiah would establish there were prophecies that show He would be despised and rejected, that His life would be cut off, but not for Himself, and those which gave detailed descriptions of His death. Because the majority of people in Israel at the time were only focused on the establishment of the kingdom prophecies they missed or ignored the ones concerning His death and His coming as the Lamb of God for the sins of the people. The scriptures reveal that the Messiah came once to bring reconciliation and peace between humanity and God by paying the penalty for sin and that He will come again to bring physical peace to the earth through the nation of Israel from the throne of David, in Jerusalem.

I give up. I don't know why intelligent and spiritually mature beings like Student of X and Me Myself as well are myself are dealing with this when there is so much more important things we could accomplish. I wish you well, and hope someday you tire or basking in the reflection of someone else's light, seeking it for yourself instead.

 

[InChrist]

Who is John the Baptist?

John the Baptist was a prophet who came in the spirit of Elijah preparing the way for the LORD. He is no example of reincarnation.


The Fallacy of Reincarnation Explored and Revealed
Eternal Path - Reincarnation Explained


And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.” Luke 1:16-17

And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” John 1;19-21

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, Heb. 9:28

 

[InChrist]

No, the scriptures are words on a page that you see with your eyes. Hence,

"...what no eye has seen"

And that sermon you just listened to in your Church? Mere grunting noises...vibrations in the air. Hence,

"...nor ear heard"

Compared to Gods direct mystical revelation, words on a page or the grunting sermon of a human are...like children's toys, baby sister. Toys are important and have a legitimate place but sooner or later infants in Christ need to grow up. There is more to God than the toys of orthodoxy.

God’s word and His word alone prevents one from falling into deception. Humans are not capable though their own finite intellect or limited judgment to discern spiritual truth from error. Because you have disregarded the warnings and truth of scripture, Satan has certainly found a very good customer for the lie he’s been selling from the beginning of creation.



“There is one reason and one reason only why innovative market-driven pastors are promoting Roman Catholic Monastic Mysticism. The simple answer is MARKETING.
Since the mid-90's market survey's and data have been pointing market-driven pastors to the fact that the spiritual market in America was undergoing a change and would soon be embracing spirituality and expect mystical spiritual experiences from their church.
Therefore, the market-driven church in a pragmatic attempt to make the church more appealing to pagans, who expect to have spiritual experiences, have reached back in time to find some vaguely "Christian" form of spirituality that they could promote in order to meet the felt needs of pagans and thereby grow their churches. This is growth for growth's sake with absolutely no concern for the truth and sound Biblical doctrine!”
Extreme Theology: Contemplative Mysticism


[FONT=&quot]“For decades authentic Bible-believers have watched - and battled - the slow advancement of paganism inside the Church. This phenomenon is surely becoming much more pronounced today. Right under our noses, there is now a bold blending of holy faith with demonic influence. This synthesis of two opposing worldviews is nothing short of a satanic strategy meant to blur and twist the distinctions which separate real Christianity and New Age beliefs and activities. Though I have chronicled this on numerous occasions, the fact cannot be overstated that just as the so-called mainline denominations abandoned the Bible to follow the siren song of liberal inclusiveness a century or more ago, modern Evangelicals are now blissfully embracing paganism in what appears to be an astounding race towards judgment before an unchanging, immoveable God. Yes, I said "Evangelicals" are becoming paganized.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Is Your Church New Age, Emergent, or Christian?"[/FONT]
Is Your Church New Age, Emergent, or Christian?


I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
2 Tim. 4:1-4

 

[InChrist]

While it is extremely and disturbingly sad that you believe the teachings of Christ and the Bible have not been altered by time and man, I must admit it is also slightly funny. The thing is though, the Torah is a living book, not to mentioned admittedly metaphorical. It evolves with the times, which is why Judaism is 5,000+ years old and thriving while Christianity is 2,000 years old and already crashing down.

Judaism has been around longer because God began dealing with the nation of Israel first. Christianity is built upon the OT testament prophecies. They are connected. The truth is that as "religions" they are both crashing, but God's words and plans will never fall.

Well, as stated by both of us, the scripture is not the full word of God, as it has human touch (an never was meant to be the word of God anyways), so you probably shouldn't use it as a source. But, logic is lacking here so I will address this. I am not sure how you know what Christ did and did not claim, you were not there, nor was anyone currently alive. It is very easy to look at the OT, see what it prophesied, and change the factual account of Christ to fit it. IT really blows my mind that people cannot follow such simple and obvious logic.

I definitely believe and accept the the scriptures as God's Word and believe that the Creator of heaven and earth is capable of using humans to record His truth and is also able and has preserved His word intact through the centuries. So I trust it as an accurate source. How probable or possible do you really think it is that someone could try to make their life fulfill dozens of prophecies given hundreds of years in advance?

I give up. I don't know why intelligent and spiritually mature beings like Student of X and Me Myself as well are myself are dealing with this when there is so much more important things we could accomplish. I wish you well, and hope someday you tire or basking in the reflection of someone else's light, seeking it for yourself instead.

[/QUOTE]
Hear and give ear; be not proud,
for the Lord has spoken.
Give glory to the Lord your God
before he brings darkness,
before your feet stumble
on the twilight mountains,
and while you look for light
he turns it into gloom
and makes it deep darkness.
But if you will not listen,
my soul will weep in secret for your pride;
my eyes will weep bitterly and run down with tears,
because the Lord's flock has been taken captive. Jeremiah 13:15-17

 

[Me Myself]

John the Baptist was a prophet who came in the spirit of Elijah preparing the way for the LORD. He is no example of reincarnation.


The Fallacy of Reincarnation Explored and Revealed
Eternal Path - Reincarnation Explained


And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.” Luke 1:16-17

And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” John 1;19-21

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, Heb. 9:28

So you put yourself John the Baptist has the SPIRIT of Elias.

About John denying it, Of course! rarely does one remember it´s past lives!

Now Jesus did know

 

[1137]

Hear and give ear; be not proud,
for the Lord has spoken.
Give glory to the Lord your God
before he brings darkness,
before your feet stumble
on the twilight mountains,
and while you look for light
he turns it into gloom
and makes it deep darkness.
But if you will not listen,
my soul will weep in secret for your pride;
my eyes will weep bitterly and run down with tears,
because the Lord's flock has been taken captive. Jeremiah 13:15-17

Very good words of mysticism, my friend! I am sorry you are captive to your pride / ego, just remember you can easily free yourself and know God, not just books and leaders.

Enjoy the debate!

 

[Student of X]

Baby sister, you wild goose. I'm done with this thread now. I leave you to the gradual progress that God has just now told me is in store for you.

53: Chien / Gradual Progress -

'The wild geese fly to a home above the clouds.
They no longer need their feathers, and leave them behind for the sacred dance.
Peace everlasting.'

 

[InChrist]

"Occultic practices, which originate from “doctrines of devils” regarding universal energies and forces, do not suddenly become acceptable to the holy Lord God merely because churches have “Christianized” them and refer to them as “Christian.” On the contrary, these practices have been designed by the evil spirit world to bring unity and “connection” with the god of this world, “the God of forces,” whom the Antichrist will honor (e.g., see Daniel 11:38-39).

Those who try to “Christianize” occultic practices are playing with “strange fire.” It is not a coincidence that professing Christians who practice the occultic Eastern methods of “prayer” are being gradually drawn into the interfaith Oneness of the world and its (New Age) New Spirituality. This “New” Spirituality is actually based on the so-called “Ancient Wisdom.”

The fruit of the unholy spirits who lie in wait to deceive all who enter the Angel of light’s realm is destructive. Their ultimate goal is to get mankind to believe in its own divinity -- the ultimate defiance against the Lord God."

Excerpt from:
Herescope: Spiritual "Breathing"

 

[1137]

I do plan on leaving you to your ignorance and blind wanderings, but I wish to address some things before doing so from you last post.

"Occultic practices, which originate from “doctrines of devils” regarding universal energies and forces, do not suddenly become acceptable to the holy Lord God merely because churches have “Christianized” them and refer to them as “Christian.” On the contrary, these practices have been designed by the evil spirit world to bring unity and “connection” with the god of this world, “the God of forces,” whom the Antichrist will honor (e.g., see Daniel 11:38-39).

First of all, Occult practices have been around since before recorded human history. As much as you wish to claim and change everything (i.e. Occultism, Jewish scriptures, Christ's meaning, etc) it just does not work that way. I have no idea what it means by "Christianizing", there is no way to do so with Occult practices. Christianity is already based on the Occult. All religions have Occultism and Mysticism. Again, I cannot even wrap my head around how something can come from another source than God. I believe God is the creator of all, not just a God of good with a separate God of Evil (your devil). It makes no sense, but to each their own. If logic, consistency, and salvation are not your thing, it harms only you.

Those who try to “Christianize” occultic practices are playing with “strange fire.” It is not a coincidence that professing Christians who practice the occultic Eastern methods of “prayer” are being gradually drawn into the interfaith Oneness of the world and its (New Age) New Spirituality. This “New” Spirituality is actually based on the so-called “Ancient Wisdom.”

Actually, these New Agers beliefs are semi based off of ancient practices. I've been glad to see many more people looking deeper into the past. The farther into time we go, the more spiritually dead we seem to become. I mean look at Judaism, Ancient Egyptian religion, Hinduism, etc... They are so mystical and deeply spiritual it is mind blowing. Then, in the last 2,000 years, you have religions like Christianity who try to destroy all that knowledge and meaning to keep you from knowing God. Only some fall for it, but keep in mind only you can allow yourself to be a victim.

The fruit of the unholy spirits who lie in wait to deceive all who enter the Angel of light’s realm is destructive. Their ultimate goal is to get mankind to believe in its own divinity -- the ultimate defiance against the Lord God."

Again, I am sorry you fell victim to this deceiver you keep mentioning. But that deceiver is man, if you stop listening to man and listen to the Divine you may be quite surprised.

Anyways, I'm going out of town and do not plan on returning to this silly thread upon return. I hope you find Light in the Darkness soon. Best wishes!