Oh God! The knower of all….. testing us!!!!!!!!!

[Aquitaine]

That much can be arranged.
especially if you insist.

I happen to believe, mindset makes all the difference.

What are you insinuating there, that your God is willing to allow it's creations the option to opt-out of the rebirths?

 

[Hawkins]

Almost all religion says that that god is testing us how worthy we are – .

It is so because all (except Christianity) religions failed to explain why their gods have to hide behind without openly confronting humans if they are gods at all.

Christianity however provides a good reason why God, as a necessity, has to hide behind. It is because humans will have to rely on faith to be saved. If God shows up it simultaneously means that humans as a whole cannot be saved as they no longer need faith to believe in God, they can see them by eyes now.

On the other hand, if God has to stay behind how can He keep humans informed of His presence, His teachings, His covenants and so forth? The only way is, He shows up to only a small bunch of humans called witnesses then for other humans to believe or disbelieve with faith of His presence, teachings and so forth. That's the only way!


"That's the only way!"

Since this is the only way, a true God will have to employ this only way for His messages to reach humans. Now who explicitly employed such a "only way"?

No one else but the Christianity God!

 

[Thanda]

So your current life, your thoughts, personality and even your religious beliefs could very well just be what is essentially a plot device for someone else's life. You're okay with being used like a tool, are you?

I'm okay with my current life being a part of the process towards my destiny. And if I get to assist a brother or sister along the path to their destiny that is well with me.

People on average live longer than we did 1000 years ago. So does God now believe we need more years to be judged in this life, compared to the people living 1000 years ago?
Also an interesting thought: when humans venture into the medical sciences and create vaccines and other medicines, are we essentially undermining God's Plan by extending our own lives?

Generally people become more stubborn and more set in their ways the older they get. So whether someone lives 50 or 100 years doesn't usually change their destiny that much. Getting into heaven is not about what you believe - it is about who you are.

 

[Thanda]

What if their suicide was part of someone else's "trauma package", surely then they shouldn't be penalized for providing someone else a tragic life experience, like you stated earlier?

They won't be as I said. But note that you can't blame your bad choices on God or anyone else. No one ever sins because that had to be someones trauma package. They sin because that is what they wanted to do.

Nice to know you acknowledge that in a few hundred years science will have completely nullified any use for religion.
Also, which God? The Christian one? Jewish one? Muslim one? Buddha? The Hindu ones? The Greek ones? The Norse ones? Jehovah?
The members of all these faiths claim that their God is the real one.

You assume too much. Science may eventually find that the answer to all life's problems is to submit to God

You can start with anyone of them. If you are sincere and you seek with real intent the true God will draw near to you as you draw near to him.

 

[morphesium]

You're really not getting it. When a child dies who feels pain? Is it not the parents who loved the child? Do they not have to deal with the heartache and dissapointment? Do they not need to find the strength they might have never known as they try to move forward with the lives. Will they not appreciate the time they have with their remaining children even more? I could mention many other lessons that one learns through such tragedies.

And what you fail to realise is that to most people, the most precious thing they have is life itself. Therefore if their lives were never under threat, how easy would it be for them to learn to fight and struggle and overcome?
"Hey, even if I don't get that job its okay. What's the worst that could happen. I might have no food to eat but so what, it's not like I'm gonna die!" - that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, because of human nature, if the threat of losing their lives were not real, chances are few people would ever really exert themselves.

What is proved here -------------------------> religion definitely kills reasoning ability.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A human is made up of two parts - a spirit and a body. The spirit or consciousness of a person predates the body. When a person is born the spirit and the body unite. When a person dies the spirit and body separate. In fact that is all death is, a separation of the spirit and the body. Since the consciousness of a person is their spirit, a person never actually dies since the spirit never dies. There is nothing stopping God from giving a spirit who, in His expert opinion, has died prematurely, a second chance at life by giving them another body through a new birth.

So stop sweating the small stuff - God has everything under control.

which god - allah, jesus,..................... ( a thousand more here)............................., and they all are fighting with each other for supremacy.

 

[Thief]

What are you insinuating there, that your God is willing to allow it's creations the option to opt-out of the rebirths?

ever hear of freewill?

 

[Aquitaine]

ever hear of freewill?

Free Will is kinda of smothered when there is a deity who threatens to torture you for eternity, simply for disobeying it. Obey me or face eternal hellfire..... but you have the freedom to choose which path! Wow, so fair and balanced.

 

[Aquitaine]

I'm okay with my current life being a part of the process towards my destiny. And if I get to assist a brother or sister along the path to their destiny that is well with me.

I bet your attitude would change if you were to be struck down hard with something - made to suffer for someone else's silly Trauma Package.

Generally people become more stubborn and more set in their ways the older they get. So whether someone lives 50 or 100 years doesn't usually change their destiny that much. Getting into heaven is not about what you believe - it is about who you are.

That still doesn't answer my two questions:
1) Why does God allow us to live longer than 1000 years ago?
2) Are we undermining God's Plan by continual research and application of the medical sciences?

They won't be as I said. But note that you can't blame your bad choices on God or anyone else. No one ever sins because that had to be someones trauma package. They sin because that is what they wanted to do.

You kinda can, when it's the same God who apparently created you and everything which happens to you, being the master-orchestrator gives God a significant share of the blame.
Also, is Suicide a Sin even if it contributes towards someone else's Trauma Package?

You assume too much. Science may eventually find that the answer to all life's problems is to submit to God

You can start with anyone of them. If you are sincere and you seek with real intent the true God will draw near to you as you draw near to him.

That's the problem, people all over the world claim they've come into contact with the "real God", trouble is they all claim different Gods from different religions. Explain that one lol.

 

[Nakosis]

Almost all religion says that that god is testing us how worthy we are – for some religion, life is single long test and in others there are a few occasional short tests that we have to go through..

Maybe God made all the tires extremely durable. Then the point of the testing would be for the tire to find out exactly what they are capable of. How resilient and durable they can actually be. To learn to believe in ourselves.

 

[Thief]

Free Will is kinda of smothered when there is a deity who threatens to torture you for eternity, simply for disobeying it. Obey me or face eternal hellfire..... but you have the freedom to choose which path! Wow, so fair and balanced.

He won't be the one doing the torture.

I believe you end up alongside other souls just like yourself.

How else to be happy?
How else to be fair?

If you have that peaceful resolve about yourself .....God and heaven.

If not....then enter the chaos of spirits without Someone in Charge.

 

[Thanda]

I bet your attitude would change if you were to be struck down hard with something - made to suffer for someone else's silly Trauma Package.

You're starting to make a lot of assumptions. How do you know I have not been struck down before?

That still doesn't answer my two questions:
1) Why does God allow us to live longer than 1000 years ago?
2) Are we undermining God's Plan by continual research and application of the medical sciences?

It does answer your question if you do a little logical deduction. God's plan is to help grow and prepare for the eternal reward we are willing to receive. That reward is determined by who we are. And since people change less and less the older the get God's plan is not in anyway affected by small (in his reckoning) fluctuations in average lifespan. The day human figure out how to not die at all will be the day we can start wondering whether God's plan is undermined.

You kinda can, when it's the same God who apparently created you and everything which happens to you, being the master-orchestrator gives God a significant share of the blame.

Except I don't believe God created me. Not the core part of me (my consciousness/spirit/self-awareness/the intelligence etc.). I believe that part of me has always existed. In Doctrine and Covenants 93:29 - 30:

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.​

This is God speaking. And he himself is saying he cannot create the "intelligence" (consciousness) of man. And in verse thirty he talks about how this consciousness is independent (of him and everyone else) and acts for itself (does what it wants to do).
Therefore God can in no way be blamed for any bad moral decisions you and I make.

Also, is Suicide a Sin even if it contributes towards someone else's Trauma Package?

Any bad moral decision you or anyone else makes is a sin, regardless of how God uses that to perpetuate some other good. Jesus actually spoke about this very thing when he said in Matt 18:7:

7 ¶Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!​

This clearly demonstrates that difficulties are an essential part of our learning experience here on earth, there is a punishment for those who cause those difficulties.

That's the problem, people all over the world claim they've come into contact with the "real God", trouble is they all claim different Gods from different religions. Explain that one lol.

Don't worry yourself about what other people claim. Their claims won't save you. Do your own research and find the truth for yourself.

 

[Aquitaine]

He won't be the one doing the torture.

I believe you end up alongside other souls just like yourself.

How else to be happy?
How else to be fair?

If you have that peaceful resolve about yourself .....God and heaven.

If not....then enter the chaos of spirits without Someone in Charge.

Feel free to believe whatever you want, just don't expect others to.

Given our mutually exclusive positions, I don't believe there is much else me and you can discuss on this matter, if I'm honest.

 

[Aquitaine]

It does answer your question if you do a little logical deduction. God's plan is to help grow and prepare for the eternal reward we are willing to receive. That reward is determined by who we are. And since people change less and less the older the get God's plan is not in anyway affected by small (in his reckoning) fluctuations in average lifespan. The day human figure out how to not die at all will be the day we can start wondering whether God's plan is undermined.

Firstly, people can change after their 50's.
Secondly, don't you think it's a little bizarre that the "reward/punishment" is eternal, yet the "test" is a mere 50-100 or so years?

Wouldn't being a resident of Heaven or Hell alter your personality just a little bit?

Except I don't believe God created me. Not the core part of me (my consciousness/spirit/self-awareness/the intelligence etc.). I believe that part of me has always existed. In Doctrine and Covenants 93:29 - 30:
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

wut.
So God is not the supreme creator of all things, and our intelligence is our own? In that case, who is God to try and "test" us if the core element of ourselves isn't even a creation of his?
In such a scenario, we are not God's property and he has no right interfering with us.

This is God speaking. And he himself is saying he cannot create the "intelligence" (consciousness) of man. And in verse thirty he talks about how this consciousness is independent (of him and everyone else) and acts for itself (does what it wants to do).
Therefore God can in no way be blamed for any bad moral decisions you and I make.

He can if he creates the physical circumstances which affect a person's choices, such a neurochemistry leading to different types of mental health issues, which in-turn can lead to things such as suicide.

Any bad moral decision you or anyone else makes is a sin, regardless of how God uses that to perpetuate some other good. Jesus actually spoke about this very thing when he said in Matt 18:7:
7 ¶Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
This clearly demonstrates that difficulties are an essential part of our learning experience here on earth, there is a punishment for those who cause those difficulties.

So God wants us to suffer, but will make suffer the person who provides the inital suffering which God deems is necessary for us? lolwut.

Don't worry yourself about what other people claim. Their claims won't save you. Do your own research and find the truth for yourself.

Save me from what, exactly?

 

[Thief]

Save me from what, exactly?

Yourself.

 

[Thief]

He can if he creates the physical circumstances which affect a person's choices, such a neurochemistry leading to different types of mental health issues, which in-turn can lead to things such as suicide.

After the chemistry fails you will be free of it.
as for health of mind....
If you end up in a box in the ground....forever....will the eternal darkness crush you?

 

[JustWondering]

After the chemistry fails you will be free of it.
as for health of mind....
If you end up in a box in the ground....forever....will the eternal darkness crush you?

You are correct. We ARE the chemistry. Once it fails we won't be worrying about anything anymore.

 

[Thanda]

Firstly, people can change after their 50's.
Secondly, don't you think it's a little bizarre that the "reward/punishment" is eternal, yet the "test" is a mere 50-100 or so years?

Wouldn't being a resident of Heaven or Hell alter your personality just a little bit?

People can change but people usually don't God knows into which category each person belongs. The doors of heaven and hell are always open. Nobody who is in Heaven is forced to stay there and no one in hell is forced to stay there either. Evidence of this can be seen from the fact that the devil who was in heaven moved from there to hell.

In Doctrine and Covenants 88 we have the following:

36 All kingdoms have a law given;

37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.

38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.

39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.​

So anyone who finds himself in hell is welcome to come to heaven if the can live the law of heaven. Therefore those who will find themselves in heaven or hell will be there because the laws they were willing to live. God can't exactly promise people heaven and then turn around and allow liars and such into that same place.

And finally, no Heaven or hell will not change you. To quote something by JRR Tolkein:

For it is not the [land] that makes its people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land;​

Heaven is heaven because of the people who live there. Hell is hell because of the people who live there.

wut.
So God is not the supreme creator of all things, and our intelligence is our own? In that case, who is God to try and "test" us if the core element of ourselves isn't even a creation of his?
In such a scenario, we are not God's property and he has no right interfering with us.

True He would have no right interfering with us unless we gave him permission. I believe in the beginning God came to us and offered us an opportunity to progress in knowledge and power. We accepted and that is what has got the ball rolling. He first gave us spirit bodies and for some times we lived and learned in heaven. Then the final part of our progression was to come here on Earth and receive a body and have our final tests and preparation for the reward we wish to receive.

And what is the reward? The reward is you! Whatever you become is your reward. And according to what you become that will also determine your power and happiness. What gave Nelson Mandela the power to influence an entire nation? It was his character. And our character is all we can take with us to the next life.

He can if he creates the physical circumstances which affect a person's choices, such a neurochemistry leading to different types of mental health issues, which in-turn can lead to things such as suicide.

Those who suffer from mental health disorders will be dealt with mercifully by God. God knows how much their mental health disorder would have affected them and will take that into account in his judgement. Indeed in the resurrection we will receive perfect bodies. Then it will become clear whether our bad characters were a result of our mental disorders or not.

So God wants us to suffer, but will make suffer the person who provides the inital suffering which God deems is necessary for us? lolwut.

Precisely. God knew some people would turn to evil when they were no longer in his presence. Therefore (as the prudent God he is) he devised a way to use the evil actions they would do to further his own righteous purposes. He decided to put everyone on one earth. Thereby those who chose evil would provide an opposition to those who wanted to do good. Then those who did good use those bad experiences to become stronger. Or they would fall meaning their resolve was not yet strong enough. On the other hand, by having the good and the evil in one earth it also served to give the evil an opportunity to learn from those who are good. Robert Mugabe gets to live in the same earth as Nelson Mandela and it gives him a chance to learn from him if he is willing to change.

Save me from what, exactly?

If you have nothing in your life you wish to improve then you don't need to worry about being saved.

 

[JoStories]

Because the universe is a chaotic place. Things don't come easy. You have to work for it. There are disappointments, tragedies etc. If God kept the world free of every ill then this would be a useless place as a testing ground. It would be like training an army and giving them a training enemy who always does what they (the army being trained) expects them to do. How ready will they be when actual warfare happens?

As for children who die, don't worry too much about them. God knows exactly how he will train and test them. It is his job and he knows how to do his job. Ours is to concentrate on our job on Earth.

I agree with your first paragraph but the second makes my skin crawl. Don't worry about children? Sorry, wrong answer, IMO. God is testing them? How? To inflict horrid pain on them? What kind of God would do that? Have you ever seen a truly ill child? What you suggest here is to ignore the pain of children and only worry about ourselves which, IMO, is the most callous remark I have ever heard. What if the test God sends us is to see how we will help these children? Do we ignore that to only worry of our own tests? No thank you. That is not a god I would even care to know.

 

[Thanda]

I agree with your first paragraph but the second makes my skin crawl. Don't worry about children? Sorry, wrong answer, IMO. God is testing them? How? To inflict horrid pain on them? What kind of God would do that? Have you ever seen a truly ill child? What you suggest here is to ignore the pain of children and only worry about ourselves which, IMO, is the most callous remark I have ever heard. What if the test God sends us is to see how we will help these children? Do we ignore that to only worry of our own tests? No thank you. That is not a god I would even care to know.

Now you're adding your own spice to the story. I said don't worry about children who die not children who are sick or in pain or hungry. When a child is dead their dead. There's nothing anyone can do to help them and all the worrying in the world won't bring even one of them back. So let's leave to God those things which are out of our control and focus on what lies in our power.

 

[Thief]

You are correct. We ARE the chemistry. Once it fails we won't be worrying about anything anymore.

and I will continue to greater things.....