Oh God! The knower of all….. testing us!!!!!!!!!

[Thanda]

Dying at birth or in childhood isn't much of a trial is it? Still, it's interesting to know that you're happy with such things, because you believe it makes life worthwhile.
Again, I'm not advocating removal of pain, disappointment, challenge etc, just that the test subjects aren't cruely abused and prematurely killed off through no fault of their own.

You're really not getting it. When a child dies who feels pain? Is it not the parents who loved the child? Do they not have to deal with the heartache and dissapointment? Do they not need to find the strength they might have never known as they try to move forward with the lives. Will they not appreciate the time they have with their remaining children even more? I could mention many other lessons that one learns through such tragedies.

And what you fail to realise is that to most people, the most precious thing they have is life itself. Therefore if their lives were never under threat, how easy would it be for them to learn to fight and struggle and overcome?
"Hey, even if I don't get that job its okay. What's the worst that could happen. I might have no food to eat but so what, it's not like I'm gonna die!" - that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, because of human nature, if the threat of losing their lives were not real, chances are few people would ever really exert themselves.

Oh okay, explain to me how he's going to test the dead babies that he purposefully killed off?

A human is made up of two parts - a spirit and a body. The spirit or consciousness of a person predates the body. When a person is born the spirit and the body unite. When a person dies the spirit and body separate. In fact that is all death is, a separation of the spirit and the body. Since the consciousness of a person is their spirit, a person never actually dies since the spirit never dies. There is nothing stopping God from giving a spirit who, in His expert opinion, has died prematurely, a second chance at life by giving them another body through a new birth.

So stop sweating the small stuff - God has everything under control.

 

[Aquitaine]

You're really not getting it. When a child dies who feels pain? Is it not the parents who loved the child? Do they not have to deal with the heartache and dissapointment? Do they not need to find the strength they might have never known as they try to move forward with the lives. Will they not appreciate the time they have with their remaining children even more? I could mention many other lessons that one learns through such tragedies.

Nice, so the child is basically an item for it's parent's own personal struggle. Where's the personal developement of the child? Oh yeah, it's dead.

And what you fail to realise is that to most people, the most precious thing they have is life itself. Therefore if their lives were never under threat, how easy would it be for them to learn to fight and struggle and overcome?

There's a difference between being able to die, and being killed off prematurely in a needless fashion by a creator.

Unfortunately, because of human nature, if the threat of losing their lives were not real, chances are few people would ever really exert themselves.

Yet you state that God can simply give people new bodies, and that no one ever really dies....

A human is made up of two parts - a spirit and a body. The spirit or consciousness of a person predates the body. When a person is born the spirit and the body unite. When a person dies the spirit and body separate. In fact that is all death is, a separation of the spirit and the body. Since the consciousness of a person is their spirit, a person never actually dies since the spirit never dies. There is nothing stopping God from giving a spirit who, in His expert opinion, has died prematurely, a second chance at life by giving them another body through a new birth.

So much for the threat of death to be needed for meaning, now you're telling me people actually don't die.

So stop sweating the small stuff - God has everything under control.

No, "it" doesn't. It's a silly belief system that makes no sense, and all of it's supports are out of control making bizarre claims.

 

[Thief]

Yeah, and think of how many dead babies and young children have died of natural causes over the past 100,000 or so years. That's a lot of dead test subjects who died prematurely.
If I were God I would either:
1) Eliminate disease and other unnecessary elements which contribute to early death, ensure that the test subjects live long enough to be tested,
OR
2) Not bother creating "the test" in the first place and just fast-track everyone to Heaven/Hell.

More likely to return to the Creator as a default position.

 

[Thief]

Yeah, and think of how many dead babies and young children have died of natural causes over the past 100,000 or so years. That's a lot of dead test subjects who died prematurely.
If I were God I would either:
1) Eliminate disease and other unnecessary elements which contribute to early death, ensure that the test subjects live long enough to be tested,
OR
2) Not bother creating "the test" in the first place and just fast-track everyone to Heaven/Hell.

Might also consider...
Man is a creature that will over run the resources of this planet.
We would have done so long ago, had it not been for disease and strife.

 

[Aquitaine]

Might also consider...
Man is a creature that will over run the resources of this planet.
We would have done so long ago, had it not been for disease and strife.

Your God designed us to be like that. Why not design us to be sustainable herbivores, ergo sparing any need to kill off humans prematurely?

 

[Thief]

Your God designed us to be like that. Why not design us to be sustainable herbivores, ergo sparing any need to kill off humans prematurely?

The design is not for this life.....that would be finite.
the design is to form unique spirit.....as many as possible.

 

[viole]

Why do professors test students, then? Giving a test vs taking a test...

Professors are not omniscient. If they were, they would not need to test students.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Aquitaine]

The design is not for this life.....that would be finite.
the design is to form unique spirit.....as many as possible.

God's severely undermining his own efforts to create unique spirits if he's killing off a good chunk of them in their infancy.

 

[Pudding]

More likely to return to the Creator as a default position.

Unsubstantiated.

I know maybe you'll reply to say that you don't need to prove whether your claims is correct or not because you've faith and faith don't need to be proven its validity.
Or use some unconvincing reason that you believe "cause and effect" to prove you're right.

Which to me, is some kind of unconvincing and unreasonable opinion/anwer.

 

[Thanda]

Nice, so the child is basically an item for it's parent's own personal struggle. Where's the personal developement of the child? Oh yeah, it's dead.

What are you worried about? The child will get its chance. Everyone will get their turn at proving themselves - no one will be left out.

There's a difference between being able to die, and being killed off prematurely in a needless fashion by a creator.

Not really. People need to die. We're not meant to spend forever here. God will decide when he is happy to allow people to die. And if, in His own perfect judgement, the person he allowed to die still needs more time to prove themselves then he will provide it. But this model of unexpected death is one that works and is here to stay.

Yet you state that God can simply give people new bodies, and that no one ever really dies....

Yes but people like you don't believe that. So the fear of death lives in your heart. As far as you are concerned, when you die then you cease to exist. So you will expend every effort to stay alive and make the most of this life - just as God intended.

So much for the threat of death to be needed for meaning, now you're telling me people actually don't die.

Yes they don't die. They move on from this life to the next. It is what many religions have been trying to teach people over the years. But some people are stubborn and with their stubbornness they must live in fear of death. But those who fear God do not fear death. They live their lives fearlessly doing good knowing that when they die they have a far better reward awaiting them in the life to come.

 

[Thief]

God's severely undermining his own efforts to create unique spirits if he's killing off a good chunk of them in their infancy.

The chemistry will flow....and so too the spirit.

I've heard repeatedly.....few find their way to the Door.
I also heard the children are favored.

 

[Aquitaine]

What are you worried about? The child will get its chance. Everyone will get their turn at proving themselves - no one will be left out.

So some people will live multiple lives, being killed off prematurely in all but their "last" life, in order to fulfil someone else's trauma?
Your current life could very well be for that purpose then, this life of yours now could just be one of those disposable throwaway ones for someone else's purpose.

Not really. People need to die. We're not meant to spend forever here. God will decide when he is happy to allow people to die. And if, in His own perfect judgement, the person he allowed to die still needs more time to prove themselves then he will provide it. But this model of unexpected death is one that works and is here to stay.

I'm not arguing against death per se, everything needs to die, I just don't get why (through random luck at birth) someone could end up living 100 years, whilst someone else could die in labour. So I take it the dead babies get "recycled" and put through another test?
Why does God find humans living today require more life to be judged than those who lived 1000 years ago?

Yes but people like you don't believe that. So the fear of death lives in your heart. As far as you are concerned, when you die then you cease to exist. So you will expend every effort to stay alive and make the most of this life - just as God intended.

How do suicidal people fit into this model?

Yes they don't die. They move on from this life to the next. It is what many religions have been trying to teach people over the years. But some people are stubborn and with their stubbornness they must live in fear of death. But those who fear God do not fear death. They live their lives fearlessly doing good knowing that when they die they have a far better reward awaiting them in the life to come.

I wouldn't call holding out for scientific evidence "stubborness".

 

[Aquitaine]

The chemistry will flow....and so too the spirit.

I've heard repeatedly.....few find their way to the Door.
I also heard the children are favored.

The judgement model you're proposing still makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, I just want to say that I completely disagree with you.

 

[Thanda]

So some people will live multiple lives, being killed off prematurely in all but their "last" life, in order to fulfil someone else's trauma?
Your current life could very well be for that purpose then, this life of yours now could just be one of those disposable throwaway ones for someone else's purpose.

It could very well be. And I am grateful to know that when the final judgement happens I would have been given every possible chance to reach my potential.

I'm not arguing against death per se, everything needs to die, I just don't get why (through random luck at birth) someone could end up living 100 years, whilst someone else could die in labour. So I take it the dead babies get "recycled" and put through another test?
Why does God find humans living today require more life to be judged than those who lived 1000 years ago?

I don't understand what you are asking here

How do suicidal people fit into this model?

Suicidal people will be dealt lovingly and justly by God. He will decide whether they deserve a second chance at life if they commit suicide. Remember that often suicidal people are not in their right minds.

I wouldn't call holding out for scientific evidence "stubborness".

I would call it stubbornness. Reason being you only have 70 years to live on this Earth give or take. And you have two options: you can either wait for science to answer all of life's questions - which could conceivably take a few hundred years atleast; or you could get on your knees and call on God directly in sincerity of heart and receive the answers within your lifetime.

 

[Thief]

The judgement model you're proposing still makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, I just want to say that I completely disagree with you.

Your denial is noted.
care to say what brings you to it?

 

[Aquitaine]

Your denial is noted.
care to say what brings you to it?

My denial of what, this bizarre judgement/test model you've proposed?

 

[Thief]

My denial of what, this bizarre judgement/test model you've proposed?

Well you don't have to call it a test.
and it's not bizarre.

You will have what it takes to continue in the next life....or not.

 

[Aquitaine]

It could very well be. And I am grateful to know that when the final judgement happens I would have been given every possible chance to reach my potential.

So your current life, your thoughts, personality and even your religious beliefs could very well just be what is essentially a plot device for someone else's life. You're okay with being used like a tool, are you?

I don't understand what you are asking here

People on average live longer than we did 1000 years ago. So does God now believe we need more years to be judged in this life, compared to the people living 1000 years ago?
Also an interesting thought: when humans venture into the medical sciences and create vaccines and other medicines, are we essentially undermining God's Plan by extending our own lives?

Suicidal people will be dealt lovingly and justly by God. He will decide whether they deserve a second chance at life if they commit suicide. Remember that often suicidal people are not in their right minds.

What if their suicide was part of someone else's "trauma package", surely then they shouldn't be penalized for providing someone else a tragic life experience, like you stated earlier?

I would call it stubbornness. Reason being you only have 70 years to live on this Earth give or take. And you have two options: you can either wait for science to answer all of life's questions - which could conceivably take a few hundred years atleast; or you could get on your knees and call on God directly in sincerity of heart and receive the answers within your lifetime.

Nice to know you acknowledge that in a few hundred years science will have completely nullified any use for religion.
Also, which God? The Christian one? Jewish one? Muslim one? Buddha? The Hindu ones? The Greek ones? The Norse ones? Jehovah?
The members of all these faiths claim that their God is the real one.

 

[Aquitaine]

Well you don't have to call it a test.
and it's not bizarre.

You will have what it takes to continue in the next life....or not.

The reasoning for my denial of it, is that it's a completely daft illogical system dreamt up by other humans.
As for playing ball with your God's sadistic Test Experience, no thanks - I'd rather just live once and never be part of it again.

 

[Thief]

The reasoning for my denial of it, is that it's a completely daft illogical system dreamt up by other humans.
As for playing ball with your God's sadistic Test Experience, no thanks - I'd rather just live once and never be part of it again.

That much can be arranged.
especially if you insist.

I happen to believe, mindset makes all the difference.