"Oh my god, you're SO white."

[stacey bo bacey]

I would like to see some evidence of that, because I simply don't believe it to be true. I grew up in the north, and although there was always a bias against the latest group of immigrants by the previous groups, at no time were the Irish referred to as "colored" and made to use separate toilets.

Are you sure you're not part of that uneducated minority (using YOUR stereotype theme here)? OF COURSE the Irish weren't referred to as colored...are you color blind, as well?

Oh and a "bias" you say?? Geez, you make it sound like it was a little personal preference getting in the way.

and so on and so forth.....

Anyone can be insulted at any time. It's their own choice. If someone told me I'm a bad dancer because I'm white, it's up to me to choose to believe it or not. I may be a bad dancer, but not because I'm white. Or I may be a good dancer, just not of the style the other person appreciates as "dance". Or they may be right, that because I'm part of the uptight white male culture, I lack the freedom and spontaneity that it takes to dance well.

Do you know how incredibly, unbelievably stupid that sounds? Oh my god. :biglaugh:

In any case, I wouldn't take the other person's remark as an insult. I would take it as an observation, to which I may then choose to feel insulted or not.

And I welcome their observation, even if I choose to feel somewhat insulted by them, because everyone has the right to make such observations if they wish. And because I can learn about myself from them, even when they're wrong. And I can learn about them as well. Even when they're wrong.

What I wouldn't do is whine and pout about how unfair it is that someone dared to tell me what they think of me. What I wouldn't do is accuse them of racism or some other form of hate simply because they don't appreciate the way I do things.

Also, I recognize that I live in a dominant culture, and that my culture and I are often blind to the negative effect we have on other cultures that live among us. And for that reason I would allow for people of other cultures a much wider field of "grace". That is because they are of a different culture, and because I do not likely understand their way of thinking very well, I will give them MORE of the benefit of the doubt than I would give someone from my own culture, regarding a possible insult or ill intent. And when I am confronted with negative accusations against my own culture, I will have to give them extra thought, because I do realize that I might WANT to dismiss them too quickly. And I also realize that people of other cultures can often see flaws that I can't, in my own culture.

So to answer your question, yes, I would give them preference. Even if they ARE meaning only to insult me. And I do it because I know I have had the upper hand, unfairly, simply by my being a part of the dominant culture.

As far as past racism goes, my ancestors have benefitted greatly from the crimes they committed against others. And I, in turn, have benefitted as well. I may not have committed the crimes, and I may not know which of my ancestors did, but I do know that I have benefitted from them, and that I still am to some degree. This why even though I have been harmed by reverse discrimination (and I have been more than you know), I accept it as just and necessary.

:biglaugh: Ok. Well at least you're good for a laugh.

 

[Stellify]

When speaking of a paradox, we often find ourselves in a contradiction. That's the nature of paradox. But you were ignoring context, and not asking for clarification. Instead, you were jumping to negative conclusions that I was not making and jumping to the conclusions that you felt made me look the worst.

A paradox is a type of contradiction. That doesn't mean it's true.
So, now I'm asking for clarification. Why are you allowed to talk about the "real world" when you think it applies to your argument, but other people aren't allowed to talk about the "real world" when it contradicts your argument?

I, personally, don't think I was "jumping" anywhere. Especially not after arguing with you for so long in this thread.
On the contrary, I don't want to make you "look the worst". I actually have been rather disappointed by your expressed views in this thread, considering how much I've enjoyed your posts and found you intelligent and insightful in other threads. Nor do I feel as though I've been reading underlying meanings in your posts that weren't there. I've simply been going off what you have written. If I have been reading more into your posts than what is there, please feel free to go back and quote the posts, and then correct me. Or, if I'm missing underlying meanings that ARE there, then please be more thorough in your explanations. When arguing via text, it can be easy to miss certain things because we can't go off of facial and vocal cues.

Why did you do that, do you think?

Why did I do what, exactly?

You can throw all the red herrings around that you want, but it just makes you look silly. The comment was, "You're so white". The context was left undefined.

Ok, I have heard this MANY, MANY times...sometimes directed at me. (Which I don't mind because I love that I'm white). But it's said as a joke or an insult.

HOW is this ok? I have long been fed up with this expression. What if I said, "God, you're SO black/hispanic/asian." My *** would be either beaten or called a racist.

How come every other group can get away with sneering, "Ugh, you're so white."

Even on the news tonight, the newsguy was like "...is the WHITEST sport *chuckle*." ?!?! And if someone dared to say on air, "...is the blackest sport *chuckle*.." what would happen to him?

This is ridiculous. What does everyone else think?

I think the context was defined quite clearly.
Especially in the parts that specified "insult", "joke" and "sneering".

 

[TashaN]

Ok, I have heard this MANY, MANY times...sometimes directed at me. (Which I don't mind because I love that I'm white). But it's said as a joke or an insult.

HOW is this ok? I have long been fed up with this expression. What if I said, "God, you're SO black/hispanic/asian." My *** would be either beaten or called a racist.

How come every other group can get away with sneering, "Ugh, you're so white."

Even on the news tonight, the newsguy was like "...is the WHITEST sport *chuckle*." ?!?! And if someone dared to say on air, "...is the blackest sport *chuckle*.." what would happen to him?

This is ridiculous. What does everyone else think?

Well, according to Chris Rock, fat girls can talk bad about skinny girls, short guys can talk bad about tall guys and the poor can talk bad about the rich, but not vice-versa as "that would be mean". He also said that Blacks can talk bad about White.

 

[Stellify]

Well, according to Chris Rock, fat girls can talk bad about skinny girls, short guys can talk bad about tall guys and the poor can talk bad about the rich, but not vice-versa as "that would be mean". He also said that Blacks can talk bad about White.

Oh yes....Chris Rock is the absolute epitome of moral righteousness

 

[PureX]

When a minority culture living within a different majority culture comments on the majority culture, it's generally worth a listen, because they have an outsider's view and experience of that majority culture, and yet a direct experience and view of it, too. The majority's comments on minority cultures living among them, however, are usually riddled with inaccuracies and biases because the majority culture has little actual experience of the minority cultures that live among them, that they are commenting on.

It's for this reason that minorities have a unique ability to speak truth to power in a cultural sense.

That's about as clearly as I can say it.

No one likes racial, ethnic, or cultural insults. And yet insults can often convey truths that we don't want to recognize about ourselves. In fact, that's often why we react so strongly and negatively to them. They can be good for us, in spite of the unpleasantness.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So we can make a movie called, "white men can't jump", but we can't make a movie called "black men can't swim"?

 

[Father Heathen]

So we can make a movie called, "white men can't jump", but we can't make a movie called "black men can't swim"?

Yeah, isn't it silly how people actually expect us to abide insults, harassment, disrespect, bigotry, hypocrisy and double standards? Unfortunately for them the world doesn't work that way. Respect, tolerance and equality are a two way street. If you want to generalize and stereotype, then you're a fair target for exactly the same. They won't be having their cake and eating it too, unfortunately. You get what you give. I don't owe them ****, so why would I give them the satisfaction? Only petty people make race an issue, anyway. I'm proud of who and what I am, and if being "so white" is a part of that, then I make no apologies for it.

 

[Magic Man]

When a minority culture living within a different majority culture comments on the majority culture, it's generally worth a listen, because they have an outsider's view and experience of that majority culture, and yet a direct experience and view of it, too. The majority's comments on minority cultures living among them, however, are usually riddled with inaccuracies and biases because the majority culture has little actual experience of the minority cultures that live among them, that they are commenting on.

It's for this reason that minorities have a unique ability to speak truth to power in a cultural sense.

That's about as clearly as I can say it.

It depends, though, on how those comments are made. If it's a comment made by a black person about a white person they don't know at all assuming that white person is something (like culturally myopic) with no real evidence to support their claim, then it's bad. If it's something irrelevant like "White men can't jump" (as Rick was so kind as to point out), then it's not productive. That's not going to change a culture, only perpetuate a stereotype. I don't mind those comments, and most others here probably don't either. However, it's ridiculous to say that those comments can be made publicly and yet comments like "That dinner was so black [because it consisted of collard greens, fried chicken and watermelon]" are off-limits in general.

No one likes racial, ethnic, or cultural insults. And yet insults can often convey truths that we don't want to recognize about ourselves. In fact, that's often why we react so strongly and negatively to them. They can be good for us, in spite of the unpleasantness.

That's true, but irrelevant. How does saying that because I'm white I can't jump or dance convey a truth to me that I don't want to recognize? I know, I know, you're talking about the whole "culturally myopic" thing, but that's not what the rest of us are talking about in this thread.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

So we can make a movie called, "white men can't jump", but we can't make a movie called "black men can't swim"?

This is really funny, by the way.

And yea, I was going to say something about this earlier...specifically that movie. Also, the movie "White Chicks".......:areyoucra I don't think that's very nice.

What about, "Once you go black, you never go back" ?? I have always hated when people say that. One, because it's incredibly arrogant and rude and two, that is definitely not true enough to be able to make a statement like that about it. I don't even know how you would gauge something like that anyway.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

When a minority culture living within a different majority culture comments on the majority culture, it's generally worth a listen, because they have an outsider's view and experience of that majority culture, and yet a direct experience and view of it, too. The majority's comments on minority cultures living among them, however, are usually riddled with inaccuracies and biases because the majority culture has little actual experience of the minority cultures that live among them, that they are commenting on.

It's for this reason that minorities have a unique ability to speak truth to power in a cultural sense.

That's about as clearly as I can say it.

No one likes racial, ethnic, or cultural insults. And yet insults can often convey truths that we don't want to recognize about ourselves. In fact, that's often why we react so strongly and negatively to them. They can be good for us, in spite of the unpleasantness.

:thud: Oh godddddddddd, your mind is so insanely backwards. I'm not wasting my time on this anymore. Sorry, your opinion is wrong. :yes: that's possible and you're the proof. Good day, sir.

 

[Inky]

If someone finds some comment directed at them to be insulting, I think the best thing to do is to respect their view on it, whether or not it's logically justified. So if someone calls you "so white" and you let them know you don't like it, they should stop just because it's the polite thing to do, racism question aside.

But with that said, I don't think that race-based comments directed at a traditionally dominant race are the same as ones directed at a traditionally oppressed race. The power of the comments comes not from the words themselves, but from the history of racism and the current racism that still exists in our society. Basically, jokes that stereotype white people don't bother me because a) white people haven't been seriously hurt by stereotypes like minority races have, and b) the white-people stereotype jokes are basically an ironic riff on actual stereotyping. Their humor comes from the irony of seeming to be racist against the group that normally is doling out the racism, not taking it.

I'm white, in case it makes a difference.

 

[Stellify]

If someone finds some comment directed at them to be insulting, I think the best thing to do is to respect their view on it, whether or not it's logically justified. So if someone calls you "so white" and you let them know you don't like it, they should stop just because it's the polite thing to do, racism question aside.

But with that said, I don't think that race-based comments directed at a traditionally dominant race are the same as ones directed at a traditionally oppressed race. The power of the comments comes not from the words themselves, but from the history of racism and the current racism that still exists in our society. Basically, jokes that stereotype white people don't bother me because a) white people haven't been seriously hurt by stereotypes like minority races have, and b) the white-people stereotype jokes are basically an ironic riff on actual stereotyping. Their humor comes from the irony of seeming to be racist against the group that normally is doling out the racism, not taking it.

I'm white, in case it makes a difference.

See, this is where I disagree with you the most. In the past, yes, "white people" in general were guilty of the most racism. I think that's obvious. But nowadays, white people are the subject of racism at least as much as other groups (and according to multiple studies, are actually victims of racism more often than other groups), but it's deemed "ok"....
...I don't like being prejudiced against and not having any way to fight back simply because a bunch of people who happened to have a similar skin tone as me, a hundred years ago, who weren't even related to me, happened to be racist and do bad things.
It's bulls***.
I don't think it's ever been right, so I certainly don't think some kind of cultural "vengeance" excuses racism and bigotry now.

Or, at the very least, I don't think it excuses such a double-standard for the bigotry. If everyone was free to make jabs at everyone else, then I would be more ok with it.


I really don't deal with hypocrisy well....and somehow I don't think it's my lack of tolerance for hypocritical inanity that's the problem :sarcastic

 

[Father Heathen]

If someone finds some comment directed at them to be insulting, I think the best thing to do is to respect their view on it, whether or not it's logically justified. So if someone calls you "so white" and you let them know you don't like it, they should stop just because it's the polite thing to do, racism question aside.

Respect disrespect? Um, no. If someone were to say to a black person that their race was lazy, dumb and violent, should that black person "respect their view"? Of course not, and it goes both ways. It's completely absurd to expect anyone to condone, tolerate and respect grossly negative, inaccurate and unfair stereotypes, disrespect, insults and harassment directed at them.

But with that said, I don't think that race-based comments directed at a traditionally dominant race are the same as ones directed at a traditionally oppressed race. The power of the comments comes not from the words themselves, but from the history of racism and the current racism that still exists in our society. Basically, jokes that stereotype white people don't bother me because a) white people haven't been seriously hurt by stereotypes like minority races have, and b) the white-people stereotype jokes are basically an ironic riff on actual stereotyping. Their humor comes from the irony of seeming to be racist against the group that normally is doling out the racism, not taking it.

Two wrongs don't make a right. There is never a justification for prejudice, even as some silly sense of "revenge" against innocent people. It's simply an inexcusable double standard. I'm just not the kind of guy who is going to adopt the pitiful self loathing and guilt trip over a past that I had no part of. People can stomp their feet all they want but it's just not going to happen.

 

[ChristineES]

I agree with Stellify and Father Heathen for more than one reason:
1. Not all whites had ancestors who owned slaves- None of my ancestors owned any.
2. I was born in 1965, which was in the heart of the Civil rights movement. I personally had nothing to do with any discrimination.
3. Most people I have known are not racist. I have met racist people, but the majority of the people I have known were not in the slightest bit racist (at least not to my face).
4. People are not obligated to pay for the sins of their ancestors, anyway. The only thing a person can do is the change the present and influence the future- he or she can't go back in time educate their ancestors against racism.
5. Not all white people are rich or even middle class and there are rich minorities, as well.
So long
Christine

 

[Father Heathen]

Also, what about blacks and whites alike who've migrated to America after the periods of slavery and segregation?

 

[Father Heathen]

5. Not all white people are rich or even middle class and there are rich minorities

Exactly. There is a lot more to culture than mere race. People of a particular race can belong to more than one culture. And one culture can have members who are of more than one race. The French and English have a separate culture and language despite both being primarily white, and Ethiopians and Jamaicans have a separate culture and language despite both being primarily black. Shocking, I know. There are countless other factors regarding culture such as nationality, religion, class, customs, tradition, language, politics, etc, etc. which I touched upon in an earlier post that appears to have been conveniently overlooked. The world is vastly more complex and complicated than the simpleminded "black vs. white" and "majority vs. minority" viewpoint. Can a people really achieve equality if you throw them a perpetual pity party at the expense of everyone else?

 

[Magic Man]

Basically, jokes that stereotype white people don't bother me because a) white people haven't been seriously hurt by stereotypes like minority races have,

Really? So, white people haven't been beaten to death by black people just because they were white? They haven't been discriminated against by minorities just because they're white? Sure, the history of it isn't nearly as prolific as with those acts committed against minorities, but let's not be blind to the fact that it does happen to white people, too. I'm not trying to make white people martyrs, and obviously they've had it much better for the most part than minorities. However, to say that white people haven't had problems because of stereotypes is just wrong.

and b) the white-people stereotype jokes are basically an ironic riff on actual stereotyping.

Sometimes, just like sometimes jokes about stereotypes of minorities are an ironic riff on that. The point is that we're not allowed to make those jokes concerning minorities, even if they are ironic riffs on actual stereotypes, if they pertain to minorities.

Respect disrespect? Um, no. If someone were to say to a black person that their race was lazy, dumb and violent, should that black person "respect their view"? Of course not, and it goes both ways. It's completely absurd to expect anyone to condone, tolerate and respect grossly negative, inaccurate and unfair stereotypes, disrespect, insults and harassment directed at them.

I think Inky was saying that the person using the insult should respect the other person's view of being insulted. For instance, if I said "You're so white, you can't dance", and you were offended by it, I should respect your opinion, and apologize or at least stop it. Just wanted to clarify.

 

[Wandered Off]

I'm white, in case it makes a difference.

Of course it makes a difference. It means you're culturally myopic, since cultural myopia is apparently caused by melanin deficiency.

 

[DallasApple]

Of course it makes a difference. It means you're culturally myopic, since cultural myopia is apparently caused by melanin deficiency.

Well I will say..Im white as a sheet.(I avoid the sun cuz Im so white I look like a cooked lobster or a tomato when exposed and it HURTS).

But Im not "myopic".I just burn instead of get a tan.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

But my husband?..I think he is "myopic"..He doesnt have a "red neck"..He has a "tan arm'..Just the left one.Just half his left arm is "tan".From the sun when he drives the car.I think that makes him have a very narrow view.Because he is so uneven.

Love

Dallas