That is an interesting point Daelach. I would think that if one is able to face the Prince of Darkness, they would be able to face the challenges inherent in the World of Horrors.
Xeper em Ma'at.
/Adramelek\
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That is an interesting point Daelach. I would think that if one is able to face the Prince of Darkness, they would be able to face the challenges inherent in the World of Horrors.
Xeper em Ma'at.
/Adramelek\
Daelach
Setian
I dislike the WoH terminus.. for my taste, it smells of bunker mentality and group think. But anyway, I would like to extend this a bit further. Set just is no peaceful, ever-loving, chilled-out god. And what kind of Setians should that be that does not feel akin to Set?! Of course, among beings akin to Set, ever-peacy politness and kindness just cannot be expected. And if it is expected, then I do not see what this has to do with Set, Setianism and so on. If it is for pure knowledge and so on, Thoth is the right one, not Set.
Well, I do not avow that all Setians would waste their time battling each other, don't take me wrong. But the kind of brutality and mercilessness that Set features cannot be had with being good, polite children all the time. The prince of darkness (I dislike this term, too) is not a gentleman - or, maybe he is, but he has a very special definition of what a gentleman is like..
If one puts the very same demands to an LHP religion/philosophy as to conventional ones, you will end up with a conventional belief system, that's it. Disrupting beliefs, destroying world views, "the great midday" (Nietzsche) - THAT is LHP. LHP is just not for weaklings hiding behind rank, name, conventions and laws since all of these are to be overcome, and that is impossible while clinging onto them.
KHPR
Social Meritocratist
I've never been fond of the WoH terminus either. There are lots of hotties in the WoH so it can't be that horrible. Even Dr. Aquino has said he likes to take a walk out in the sun every once in awhile. :beach:
I think though many people see Set as a god of war or chaos or just a mean old son of a *****, but he's more than that. He was the god of the outer lands, isolate intelligence. He had many aspects, so to focus on the idea that you can't or shouldn't show respect as a Setian is a mistake in my opinion.
I hate to quote Patrick Swayze, but, "Be nice, until it's time not to be nice."
Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness
Vasilisa Jade
Formerly Saint Tigeress
That is what I thought growing personal sovereignty is all about. Knowing when to be what. There is a time and a place for everything. I practice at work. My coworkers are shocked at how I can shift from being endlessly kind and patient with a rather annoying elderly customer, but one who needs help, to being the opposite with an illegitimately irate customer who needs to be shut down and kicked out. It's rare, but they do pop up. From what I've heard from other customers they will make their rounds through town trying to take advantage of everywhere and get things for free.
See, they stand there and watch you like a hawk while they are waiting when they are angry, and if they are dumb, they think that because you are overflowing with patience and kindness with one person, you are going to give them every unfounded illegitimate demand they wish, because you are soft. They are always pretty surprised when they get the opposite and a swift kick out the door.
Daelach
Setian
I do not have information about that, so I will not say anything ad rem. However, the real problem is NOT whether Donny has taken meth or other stuff, the real problem is that this seems to be a problem. We are talking about LHP after all, not about some chaste monastery.
Daelach
Setian
Yeah man (-;
Wow, now you are slandering Dr. Aquino (-;
Yes. However, I do feel in about all writings of the TOS I have come across until now (including tablets and scrolls) that this really dark side of him is underrepresented and better not mentioned. He is presented as a gentleman, and after all, I could not see why the TOS version of Set would be "dark" at all. In fact, I do not see a difference to conventional religions. That was the point.
Of course, he has also some weird sense of humour.. I remember a little conversation with him:
Set: "and you are here because you have a mission."
I: "and that is what?!"
Set: "wearing cool sun glasses."
I: "..."
Valor
Active Member
Listen very close...please. Don Webb is basically single handedly responsible for my treading the Left on a hightened level. I'm not calling him a "Meth head", i actually don't see how he may have stumbled across such a vice when all he teach's is refinement and Self Becomming. So until i see actual evidence i'm going to delete that thread. That info could have been writen by anyone and i'm not going to throw him under the bus. I shouldn't have brought it up. My apologies. I may have mispoken concerning who the step program was for...
...Actually, i'm not even going to request this evidence, i was told that it exists and i could ask for it... but i don't want to bring this subject up again. It was stupid of me. Don Webb is a prophet in my eyes and i'm reaching out of my leauge concerning this. Again, i was wrong to have brought it up. My apologies to everyone who read this. I don't have the proof in hand and don't want the proof at all. Somethings i have learned to back away from. This is one example. Sometimes i'm guilty of acting before i think... it's an uncommon vice of mine.
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Kori Houghton
Restricted
Don Webb wrote the article, but the personal story about addiction was not Webb's:
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
ON DEPENDENCY
by Magus Webb
This is for those members of the Priesthood that may have to deal with substance abuse in
either themselves or others. Let's begin by killing afew myths, shall we?
The popular figure of the drug or alcohol addict is a guy lying in the gutter clutching a
paper-covered bag containing a bottle of Thunderbird. Here's a better picture: intern of
the year, a successful lawyer, Priest Curt Rowlett, Magus Don Webb, Ipsissimus Aleister
Crowley.
Addicts make good sorcerers. They can put on any number of masks. They can lie to
anyone--especially themselves. They generally do a good deal more in the world than
their non-addicted fellows. (Try having a $300.00 a day habit, it does great things to your
earning power).
Drugs, alas, do open the Magical Link. They blur subjective and objective realities, n o
doubt about that. But they end the Secret of Setian Magic.Socrates said that the
purification of the psyche came from Inquiry--that asking the TOUGH (and sometimes
dumb-sounding questions)--after all "great philosophy comes from stupid questions" as
my friend and novelist Rob Hardin is apt to say. Ipsissimus Aquino says that the process
you have to go through to get to that place where you can Work magic (i.e., the
concentration of Self into a Force) is purifying for the psyche. Drugs stop inquiry or at
least stop successful inquiry. If this is unclear to you, hang around a bunch of potsmoking
teenagers discussing life. Drugs stop the Essent process of magic. You don't
have to make an effort. So the magic isn't Setian.It is Apepian, it works AGAINST your
dreams.
Onyx Tablet: OT.O.4.11 © Temple of Set
Author: Curt Rowlett III° and Don Webb
V°
Date: November 20, 1997 CE
Revision:
HTML Revision: June 11, 1998 CE
My addiction was long ago and far away in the drug-soaked Seventies. I had a love for
methamphetamine. A brilliant drug for a brilliant guy. I lost a lot: A very great deal of my
life, including about 20 I.Q. points, a few good friends and chance at a decent education.
I also did some long-term damage to my body that didn't show up for 17 years.
I mention this not as the "Cult of the Victim, please feel sorry for me," but so that you'll
know that substance abuse can gain root in any Setian. In fact, as magicians we are more
prone to self- justification than anyone else. It (like paranoia) is a form of Apepian magic
that Setians practice all the time. Other humans do as well, but we are sadly better at it.
Once you are a magician your magic will Work, even in directions you don't want it to.
If you or some Setian in your charge has substance abuse issues, don't approach them in a
"hellfire and brimstone" manner. Christ, they found us by running away from that
nonsense. Don't be patronizing, don't be easy. Stick to your principles and:
1. Give them this essay to read.
2. Emphasize that Black magic and substance abuse don't mix. Period.
3. Remember that these people are interested in self change, if they can
Strengthen that emotion over such human things as guilt and denial,
they've got an edge.
4. Getting free of the substance is the most important thing they can do.
That really means getting out of the Temple and into an accredited support
group. That's what they owe themselves, the Temple is involved in self
change activities that may at worst be harmful to them and at best be sort
of tangential to what they're doing. The Temple will be around, and when
they come back it will be part of their job to see that it stays around for
others who have to pursue their self-improvement elsewhere.
5. Tell them you would like some kind of report from their group leader
after they've been clean for nine months. Don't re-sponsor them to the
Temple without it. Yeah, I know this is a damn hard thing to ask. I also
know the value of the word of the abuser--the drug can speak through their
lips.
6. If you want to, stay in touch with them during the hell they're about to
undergo. This will try your soul as well, because it isn't quick, easy or
linear. If you can't do this, do not feel bad. It is very rough.
7. There's a lot of anger and denial in drug abuse. (As in "there's a lot of
water in the Pacific ocean"). If people come to you to talk about things,
they may be shocked at these recommendations, but their Will-to-Xeper
will help them accept this. If you have to go to them, things may be a lot
worse. If there's trouble that the drug abuser makes, don't hesitate to
remove them from the Temple. Hope that the shock may awaken them.
8. Keep these matters as private as you can. The Temple exists to facilitate
Initiation. Our job is both helping the abuser see what to do to find clarity
in his or her own life, and to protect the Temple by removing distracting
influences.
9. Give them Priest Rowlett's Nine Steps. It will help them cut through the
RHP trappings of most recovery groups.
Remind them and yourself to be gentle with our own selves and that everything is
temporary.
INTRODUCTION TO THE SETIAN NINE STEPS
by Priest (shorted for length...original document is here
http://www.orakels.org/media/occult/Setian/Onyx_Tablet_of_Set.pdf
by Magus Webb
This is for those members of the Priesthood that may have to deal with substance abuse in
either themselves or others. Let's begin by killing afew myths, shall we?
The popular figure of the drug or alcohol addict is a guy lying in the gutter clutching a
paper-covered bag containing a bottle of Thunderbird. Here's a better picture: intern of
the year, a successful lawyer, Priest Curt Rowlett, Magus Don Webb, Ipsissimus Aleister
Crowley.
Addicts make good sorcerers. They can put on any number of masks. They can lie to
anyone--especially themselves. They generally do a good deal more in the world than
their non-addicted fellows. (Try having a $300.00 a day habit, it does great things to your
earning power).
Drugs, alas, do open the Magical Link. They blur subjective and objective realities, n o
doubt about that. But they end the Secret of Setian Magic.Socrates said that the
purification of the psyche came from Inquiry--that asking the TOUGH (and sometimes
dumb-sounding questions)--after all "great philosophy comes from stupid questions" as
my friend and novelist Rob Hardin is apt to say. Ipsissimus Aquino says that the process
you have to go through to get to that place where you can Work magic (i.e., the
concentration of Self into a Force) is purifying for the psyche. Drugs stop inquiry or at
least stop successful inquiry. If this is unclear to you, hang around a bunch of potsmoking
teenagers discussing life. Drugs stop the Essent process of magic. You don't
have to make an effort. So the magic isn't Setian.It is Apepian, it works AGAINST your
dreams.
Onyx Tablet: OT.O.4.11 © Temple of Set
Author: Curt Rowlett III° and Don Webb
V°
Date: November 20, 1997 CE
Revision:
HTML Revision: June 11, 1998 CE
My addiction was long ago and far away in the drug-soaked Seventies. I had a love for
methamphetamine. A brilliant drug for a brilliant guy. I lost a lot: A very great deal of my
life, including about 20 I.Q. points, a few good friends and chance at a decent education.
I also did some long-term damage to my body that didn't show up for 17 years.
I mention this not as the "Cult of the Victim, please feel sorry for me," but so that you'll
know that substance abuse can gain root in any Setian. In fact, as magicians we are more
prone to self- justification than anyone else. It (like paranoia) is a form of Apepian magic
that Setians practice all the time. Other humans do as well, but we are sadly better at it.
Once you are a magician your magic will Work, even in directions you don't want it to.
If you or some Setian in your charge has substance abuse issues, don't approach them in a
"hellfire and brimstone" manner. Christ, they found us by running away from that
nonsense. Don't be patronizing, don't be easy. Stick to your principles and:
1. Give them this essay to read.
2. Emphasize that Black magic and substance abuse don't mix. Period.
3. Remember that these people are interested in self change, if they can
Strengthen that emotion over such human things as guilt and denial,
they've got an edge.
4. Getting free of the substance is the most important thing they can do.
That really means getting out of the Temple and into an accredited support
group. That's what they owe themselves, the Temple is involved in self
change activities that may at worst be harmful to them and at best be sort
of tangential to what they're doing. The Temple will be around, and when
they come back it will be part of their job to see that it stays around for
others who have to pursue their self-improvement elsewhere.
5. Tell them you would like some kind of report from their group leader
after they've been clean for nine months. Don't re-sponsor them to the
Temple without it. Yeah, I know this is a damn hard thing to ask. I also
know the value of the word of the abuser--the drug can speak through their
lips.
6. If you want to, stay in touch with them during the hell they're about to
undergo. This will try your soul as well, because it isn't quick, easy or
linear. If you can't do this, do not feel bad. It is very rough.
7. There's a lot of anger and denial in drug abuse. (As in "there's a lot of
water in the Pacific ocean"). If people come to you to talk about things,
they may be shocked at these recommendations, but their Will-to-Xeper
will help them accept this. If you have to go to them, things may be a lot
worse. If there's trouble that the drug abuser makes, don't hesitate to
remove them from the Temple. Hope that the shock may awaken them.
8. Keep these matters as private as you can. The Temple exists to facilitate
Initiation. Our job is both helping the abuser see what to do to find clarity
in his or her own life, and to protect the Temple by removing distracting
influences.
9. Give them Priest Rowlett's Nine Steps. It will help them cut through the
RHP trappings of most recovery groups.
Remind them and yourself to be gentle with our own selves and that everything is
temporary.
INTRODUCTION TO THE SETIAN NINE STEPS
by Priest (shorted for length...original document is here
http://www.orakels.org/media/occult/Setian/Onyx_Tablet_of_Set.pdf
----------------
Writers should be careful to check their facts before posting claims such as:
Writers should be careful to check their facts before posting claims such as:
"so-and-so was a meth addict"
"so-and-so may have been a disgruntled ex-member of such-and-such"
"so-and-so was expelled from such-and-such".
"so-and-so may have been a disgruntled ex-member of such-and-such"
"so-and-so was expelled from such-and-such".
Verify before you type, please. It took me less than 5 minutes on Google to find the document.
KHPR
Social Meritocratist
It only seems to be a problem because people are saying it's a problem, but not providing any proof. Don was a big guy as the HP, so that doesn't fall in line with being a meth head. From what I see around SF they usually tend to be rail thin and are losing their teeth. Neither has been shown by Don or Zeena.
Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness
KHPR
Social Meritocratist
Kori,
Thank you for clearing this up. I had to run out and didn't have the time to do the search.
Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness
Thank you for clearing this up. I had to run out and didn't have the time to do the search.
Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness
Valor
Active Member
Can you see how i was mislead to think this? I may have been wrong, but it was tough to decipher. It was written by Webb... i thought it was his experience. Again, i admit when i'm wrong and shouldn't have posted prior to knowing.
However...can you see how it was mistaken? But i am so greatful to know the truth. I feared the worst... Webb Work is everything to me. I cherish his existance.
Last edited:
Kori Houghton
Restricted
Valor, it is ambiguous, so it's hard to know who is writing what about whom.
I think Webb was born in 1960, so during most of the 70s he would have been a minor. It's hard for me to imagine Don as a high school student running off to the disco every night to wow the ladies with his Foxy Trot Hustle after scoring some illegal substance.
That would be more like people my age.
For what it's worth, I worked with a few folks in the late 70s who did a fair amount of speed, and they were overweight and had all their teeth.
Stereotypes are not facts. Vague testimonies about the mistakes of (some)one's youth aren't facts, either.
I think Webb was born in 1960, so during most of the 70s he would have been a minor. It's hard for me to imagine Don as a high school student running off to the disco every night to wow the ladies with his Foxy Trot Hustle after scoring some illegal substance.
That would be more like people my age.
For what it's worth, I worked with a few folks in the late 70s who did a fair amount of speed, and they were overweight and had all their teeth.
Stereotypes are not facts. Vague testimonies about the mistakes of (some)one's youth aren't facts, either.
As a teenager I did a wide variety of drugs like, pot, cocain, rush, "white crosses", and my beloved LSD. I never did meth because I saw what it did to my late brother. I suppose my only vice now is women (not really a vice
) and occasionally, hard liquor.
/Adramelek\
) and occasionally, hard liquor./Adramelek\
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Valor
Active Member
As a teenager I did a wide variety of drugs like, pot, cocain, rush, and my beloved LSD. I never did meth because I saw what it did to my late brother. In my early thirties I was addicted to narcotic pain meds such as Lortab, Oxycodone, and Oxycontin. I eventually, through a lot of hard work, rehabilitated myself. I suppose my only vice now is women (not really a vice
/Adramelek\
I'm glad to hear you have remedied your addiction. Recovery is a tough path to tread. Congratulations. My sincere sadness to hear of your brother.
KHPR
Social Meritocratist
Don did the introduction and then Curt took over. Some of you from the old alt.satanism days may have remember when he posted, "Heroin isn't as addictive as people say, I've been doing it off and on for years." Wasn't one of his high points and he left not to long after that, but it wasn't because of that that he left.
Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness
Thanks my friend! Yes, recovery is true Hell on Earth... but that which does not kill us makes us stronger.
Nietzsche was right.
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Valor
Active Member
Valor
Active Member
Sireal
Setian
KHPR
Social Meritocratist
Not just that Sireal, but within the USA we also take into account the state you live in.
Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness