Oklahoma schools in revolt over Bible mandate

[Revoltingest]

The American concept of society religion and government is clearly out of step with a majority of the world. And is possibly the most institutionally corrupt and financially bankrupt at all levels.

So you find Russia, N Korea, Cuba, Venezuela,
Somolia, Syria, & others superior, eh.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

So you find Russia, N Korea, Cuba, Venezuela,
Somolia, Syria, & others superior, eh.

That is not what I said. Though their failings are equally extreme they are probably not as institutionally corrupt or financially bankrupt.

 

[Revoltingest]

That is not what I said. Though their failings are equally extreme they are probably not as institutionally corrupt or financially bankrupt.

Now it's "equally extreme".
Strange values you have there.

 

[Pogo]

Not just Western Civilisation, you must learn about Eastern and African religious texts too.

Not to mention oral traditions etc. All of which are dealt with in world history albeit at a minimal level in high school history.
This insistence on focus on the Bible is obviously driven by people who suffer from an inadequate education in the general subject.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not just Western Civilisation, you must learn about Eastern and African religious texts too.

Will there be any time left available
for read'n, write'n, & 'rithmatec?

 

[Balthazzar]

Educators in Oklahoma are refusing a state order to incorporate the Bible into their lesson plans, setting up an inevitable showdown with the start of the school year just weeks away. State Superintendent Ryan Walters last week released guidelines to schools for how they should be integrating the Bible into classrooms, saying educators who are against the initiative “will comply, and I will use every means to make sure of it.”

The message from some schools in the state: Bring it on.

“I suspect that the first thing that will happen is he will target a specific school district or multiple school districts who he believes are not complying with his directive, those school districts will then have to make a choice as to whether to bend his whim or to sue,” said Rob Miller, superintendent of Bixby Public Schools. “And I can tell you that if Bixby was one of those schools that he selected to come after, we would file a lawsuit,” Miller told The Hill.

Walters’s guidance, which follows a June announcement of the mandatory biblical curricula for grades 5 through 12, says that lessons on the Christian text should emphasize its historical context, literary significance and artistic and musical influence. The guidance also says a physical copy of the book should be in every classroom, along with copies of the Ten Commandments, the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. “And I can tell you that if Bixby was one of those schools that he selected to come after, we would file a lawsuit,” Miller told The Hill. . . .

But ultimately, Miller said the goal may be to garner headlines and get the mandate before the conservative-leaning Supreme Court.

“I believe that what the state superintendent intends, because he has voiced this out loud, is that he would like to be sued, because he would like to see this issue move through the court system to the United States Supreme Court, where I think there’s a faction of people who believe that the current composition of the U.S. Supreme Court might be favorable towards this type of policy,” he said.

https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4806459-oklahoma-schools-bible-mandate-ten-commandments-church-and-state/

I'm beginning to acknowledge a clearer understanding of what has been in play. A book is to be incorporated as an academic for its literary and historical significance, and to study the general impact it has had on human social structures and conduct. To view it as an academic would be much more acceptable than teaching the precepts within it as anything that must be followed as a people. The curriculum chosen in our schools, is chosen for various reasons, and I'm curious how each state decides which of the many literary works available should become required reading for the students.

It is controversial, but it may offer some insight into the historical significance a textbook has had on a body of people throughout the world.

I'm curious to see how this unfolds.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Only America could enforce a policy like this.
A high proportion of Americans are not even Christian.
And the Bible is highly inaccurate as a historical text.
And equally poor in literacy content.

 

[Pogo]

I'm beginning to acknowledge a clearer understanding of what has been in play. A book is to be incorporated as an academic for its literary and historical significance, and to study the general impact it has had on human social structures and conduct. To view it as an academic would be much more acceptable than teaching the precepts within it as anything that must be followed as a people. The curriculum chosen in our schools, is chosen for various reasons, and I'm curious how each state decides which of the many literary works available should become required reading for the students.

It is controversial, but it may offer some insight into the historical significance a textbook has had on a body of people throughout the world.

I'm curious to see how this unfolds.

One doesn't read primary literature in grade schools except in some English literature courses at upper levels. Primary literature of this variety is available in school libraries and in class reference libraries in some classrooms. It is not a textbook or even a reference like a dictionary and as such has limited appropriateness in classrooms and it is only a small part of the complete history of the development of western civilization. As such its forced inclusion in all classrooms serves no secular purpose and is in violation of the 1st amendment.

It will eventually get shot down at great legal expense to the state of Oklahoma though it will rile up those who never learned much about American government.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Now it's "equally extreme".
Strange values you have there.

As to value judgements, I find many American values to be very poor indeed.
That some other countries have equally poor ones does not exonerate the USA at all.

It is not good practice to compare your self with the worst.
But to match your self against the best.

 

[Balthazzar]

One doesn't read primary literature in grade schools except in some English literature courses at upper levels. Primary literature of this variety is available in school libraries and in class reference libraries in some classrooms. It is not a textbook or even a reference like a dictionary and as such has limited appropriateness in classrooms and it is only a small part of the complete history of the development of western civilization. As such its forced inclusion in all classrooms serves no secular purpose and is in violation of the 1st amendment.

It will eventually get shot down at great legal expense to the state of Oklahoma though it will rile up those who never learned much about American government.

I'm an onlooker curious how this will unfold. It should make for a nice journalistic (free lance) assignment to effort in upcoming months, if not the next few years. 1980, Stone Vs. Graham happened in my home state at age 10. It is an appropriate assignment choice if I so choose to take it. It's not just Oklahoma on the agenda, but Louisiana and I think Florida, also. I have no idea how many more will join the effort to include that particular text book in the schools.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Crooked lawyers who work to destroy this country should be locked up.
Rudy Giuliani
John Eastman
Sidney Powell
Jeffrey Clark
Kenneth Chesebro

"Only the best people"

Rudy's story has got to be the most shocking. In addition to losing a $148 million judgment, disbarments in two jurisdictions (I believe that only one is permanent), and indictments in AZ and GA, he had the Four Seasons Landscaping fiasco, the motor oil dripping down his face, punked by Borat in a movie, and most recently, his daughter Caroline has endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris for President in the upcoming election.

Plus, he comes off as just as demented as Trump.

Here are a few more who were or are in the crosshairs for having worked for Trump

Jenna Ellis
James Troupis
Christina Bobb
Michael Cohen
Alina Habba

You've probably seen this reworking of the acronym MAGA:

 

[anna.]

I'm beginning to acknowledge a clearer understanding of what has been in play.

What was your understanding before it became clearer?

A book is to be incorporated as an academic for its literary and historical significance, and to study the general impact it has had on human social structures and conduct. To view it as an academic would be much more acceptable than teaching the precepts within it as anything that must be followed as a people. The curriculum chosen in our schools, is chosen for various reasons, and I'm curious how each state decides which of the many literary works available should become required reading for the students.

It is controversial, but it may offer some insight into the historical significance a textbook has had on a body of people throughout the world.

I'm curious to see how this unfolds.

I don't recall any way in which my grade school kids would have needed a Bible for class assignments. Such assignments would be more understandable in a Christian school. I attended a Christian high school and we had an actual class period for Bible. But in a public school? Unacceptable to me, although not for Christian nationalists, and that's where the problem lies. Christian nationalism.

Here's a new twist:

Superintendent Ryan Walters isn’t just talking about buying Bibles for schools.​

​

Bids opened Monday for a contract to supply the state Department of Education with 55,000 Bibles. According to the bid documents, vendors must meet certain specifications: Bibles must be the King James Version; must contain the Old and New Testaments; must include copies of the Pledge of Allegiance, Declaration of Independence, U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights; and must be bound in leather or leather-like material.​

​

A salesperson at Mardel Christian & Education searched, and though they carry 2,900 Bibles, none fit the parameters.​

​

But one Bible fits perfectly: Lee Greenwood’s God Bless the U.S.A. Bible, endorsed by former President Donald Trump and commonly referred to as the Trump Bible. They cost $60 each online, with Trump receiving fees for his endorsement.​

​

'Trump Bible' one of few that meet Walters' criteria for Oklahoma classrooms

Bibles endorsed by former President Donald Trump cost $60 each online, with Trump receiving fees for his endorsement.

www.oklahoman.com

​

How convenient for Trump, since a plain Bible would've cost far less.

Now people are wondering where the money came from.

Civil rights groups want Walters to say where OSDE found $3M to buy Bibles for schools

Four civil rights groups have filed an open-records request to seek the source of money state Superintendent Ryan Walters wants to use to buy Bibles.

www.oklahoman.com

 

[Balthazzar]

What was your understanding before it became clearer?



I don't recall any way in which my grade school kids would have needed a Bible for class assignments. Such assignments would be more understandable in a Christian school. I attended a Christian high school and we had an actual class period for Bible. But in a public school? Unacceptable to me, although not for Christian nationalists, and that's where the problem lies. Christian nationalism.

Here's a new twist:

Superintendent Ryan Walters isn’t just talking about buying Bibles for schools.​

​

Bids opened Monday for a contract to supply the state Department of Education with 55,000 Bibles. According to the bid documents, vendors must meet certain specifications: Bibles must be the King James Version; must contain the Old and New Testaments; must include copies of the Pledge of Allegiance, Declaration of Independence, U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights; and must be bound in leather or leather-like material.​

​

A salesperson at Mardel Christian & Education searched, and though they carry 2,900 Bibles, none fit the parameters.​

​

But one Bible fits perfectly: Lee Greenwood’s God Bless the U.S.A. Bible, endorsed by former President Donald Trump and commonly referred to as the Trump Bible. They cost $60 each online, with Trump receiving fees for his endorsement.​

​

'Trump Bible' one of few that meet Walters' criteria for Oklahoma classrooms

Bibles endorsed by former President Donald Trump cost $60 each online, with Trump receiving fees for his endorsement.

www.oklahoman.com

​

How convenient for Trump, since a plain Bible would've cost far less.

Now people are wondering where the money came from.

Civil rights groups want Walters to say where OSDE found $3M to buy Bibles for schools

Four civil rights groups have filed an open-records request to seek the source of money state Superintendent Ryan Walters wants to use to buy Bibles.

www.oklahoman.com

My stated opinion prior to my new would have been more so in line with common understanding of the 1st amendment, which would have been further validated by Stone Vs. Graham 1980, era KY.

My clearer picture is based on stated purpose and possible legal loopholes that would enable the inclusion. I doubt its happenstance that a Trump endorsed bible is the type expected to be used for the stated purpose. Declaration of independence, U.S Constitution, Pledge of Allegiance (something I myself grew up with) and the Bill of Rights to be mandated as requirements for the inclusion of the textbooks themselves.

As an Acedemic application, even in grade school, as an effort to teach a more accurate understanding of U.S history, and as a literary tool in how the text itself shaped human social dynamics around the world, and specifically in those territories populated by large majority of Christians it would be useful. In essence, it is about our very real and likewise relevant world history at this point, and I might suggest, needed to garner a better understanding of the role it contributed to global politics at large.

 

[Jainarayan]

To accomplish what goal? What societal need is met by that?

Eliminating prejudice, misinformation, ignorance ... y'know.

Consider the rampant Islamophobia. I've known Muslims who are the salt of the Earth, who are hard-working and devout. Just after 9/11 I sat next to a Muslim woman in a hospital waiting room, watching the tv with her children. She was in tears, pointing to the images on tv saying "This is not our religion!"

Consider the rampant anti-Semitism, especially towards Orthodox Jews. In my area we have a large and growing Orthodox population. There is nothing but hatred, which fortunately so far has not turned violent.

And then we have the ignorance and mockery of Hindus. I once snapped at my best friend, who also happened to be my boss, because he was making fun of an Indian coworker and his name.

Maybe we should teach our kids more about other religions. The US is not a Christian nation though it is a country largely of Christians. Conversely, maybe other countries should teach their children more about the US. I see lots of negative comments on social media about Americans that are nothing but ignorant. We're not all bang-bang-shoot-'em-ups, thugs or murderers.

 

[Heyo]

What was your understanding before it became clearer?



I don't recall any way in which my grade school kids would have needed a Bible for class assignments. Such assignments would be more understandable in a Christian school. I attended a Christian high school and we had an actual class period for Bible. But in a public school? Unacceptable to me, although not for Christian nationalists, and that's where the problem lies. Christian nationalism.

Here's a new twist:

Superintendent Ryan Walters isn’t just talking about buying Bibles for schools.​

​

Bids opened Monday for a contract to supply the state Department of Education with 55,000 Bibles. According to the bid documents, vendors must meet certain specifications: Bibles must be the King James Version; must contain the Old and New Testaments; must include copies of the Pledge of Allegiance, Declaration of Independence, U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights; and must be bound in leather or leather-like material.​

​

A salesperson at Mardel Christian & Education searched, and though they carry 2,900 Bibles, none fit the parameters.​

​

But one Bible fits perfectly: Lee Greenwood’s God Bless the U.S.A. Bible, endorsed by former President Donald Trump and commonly referred to as the Trump Bible. They cost $60 each online, with Trump receiving fees for his endorsement.​

​

'Trump Bible' one of few that meet Walters' criteria for Oklahoma classrooms

Bibles endorsed by former President Donald Trump cost $60 each online, with Trump receiving fees for his endorsement.

www.oklahoman.com

​

How convenient for Trump, since a plain Bible would've cost far less.

Now people are wondering where the money came from.

Civil rights groups want Walters to say where OSDE found $3M to buy Bibles for schools

Four civil rights groups have filed an open-records request to seek the source of money state Superintendent Ryan Walters wants to use to buy Bibles.

www.oklahoman.com

Saw Hemant Mehta's video on this. Walters basically wants to donate hundreds of thousands of $$ to Trump and make the taxpayers of Oklahoma pay it.

 

[Pogo]

Eliminating prejudice, misinformation, ignorance ... y'know.

Consider the rampant Islamophobia. I've known Muslims who are the salt of the Earth, who are hard-working and devout. Just after 9/11 I sat next to a Muslim woman in a hospital waiting room, watching the tv with her children. She was in tears, pointing to the images on tv saying "This is not our religion!"

Consider the rampant anti-Semitism, especially towards Orthodox Jews. In my area we have a large and growing Orthodox population. There is nothing but hatred, which fortunately so far has not turned violent.

And then we have the ignorance and mockery of Hindus. I once snapped at my best friend, who also happened to be my boss, because he was making fun of an Indian coworker and his name.

Maybe we should teach our kids more about other religions. The US is not a Christian nation though it is a country largely of Christians. Conversely, maybe other countries should teach their children more about the US. I see lots of negative comments on social media about Americans that are nothing but ignorant. We're not all bang-bang-shoot-'em-ups, thugs or murderers.

The question is not do we need more education about religions, that is a given, the question is that goal served by putting a special copy of the KJV bible with a few US documents that are unrelated to it appropriate. What goal does inflicting this bowdlerized copy of a Christian Bible address in terms of giving students an understanding of the many religions in the world? In terms of the US Constitution, what secular purpose does it serve or is it establishing a religion in its singularity?

 

[anna.]

Saw Hemant Mehta's video on this. Walters basically wants to donate hundreds of thousands of $$ to Trump and make the taxpayers of Oklahoma pay it.

I used to read him when he was over at Patheos. I kind of lost track of him after that, I think he has a substack now.

Which they're apparently doing exactly that. I like the last line of the article I posted: "Public schools are not Sunday Schools."

 

[anna.]

My stated opinion prior to my new would have been more so in line with common understanding of the 1st amendment, which would have been further validated by Stone Vs. Graham 1980, era KY.

My clearer picture is based on stated purpose and possible legal loopholes that would enable the inclusion. I doubt its happenstance that a Trump endorsed bible is the type expected to be used for the stated purpose. Declaration of independence, U.S Constitution, Pledge of Allegiance (something I myself grew up with) and the Bill of Rights to be mandated as requirements for the inclusion of the textbooks themselves.

As an Acedemic application, even in grade school, as an effort to teach a more accurate understanding of U.S history, and as a literary tool in how the text itself shaped human social dynamics around the world, and specifically in those territories populated by large majority of Christians it would be useful. In essence, it is about our very real and likewise relevant world history at this point, and I might suggest, needed to garner a better understanding of the role it contributed to global politics at large.

They don't need a taxpayer-funded Bible in every classroom for that.

 

[Balthazzar]

They don't need a taxpayer-funded Bible in every classroom for that.

The projected funds generated could be the reason they are being suggested or mandated, specifically. I'm pretty sure that's it. It makes sense and seems to be an appropriate, unified bilateral type of effort proposed for the purpose of the inclusion itself.

 

[anna.]

The projected funds generated could be the reason they are being suggested or mandated, specifically. I'm pretty sure that's it. It makes sense and seems to be an appropriate, unified bilateral type of effort proposed for the purpose of the inclusion itself.

I'm sorry, I'm just not following you. I have no idea what you mean. What makes sense, what's the appropriate, unified bilateral type of effort, and what is the inclusion?