Oklahoma schools in revolt over Bible mandate

[Balthazzar]

I'm sorry, I'm just not following you. I have no idea what you mean. What makes sense, what's the appropriate, unified bilateral type of effort, and what is the inclusion?

Trump supported type bibles that include the constitution, declaration of independence, bill of rights, and the pledge of allegiance, specifically.

 

[Copernicus]

Trump supported type bibles that include the constitution, declaration of independence, bill of rights, and the pledge of allegiance, specifically.

I'm puzzled as to what kind of "Bible" you are talking about or what kinds of classes they would be used in. Is this a case where those documents are included with a Protestant Bible in order to make it look more like the Bible has a secular purpose in the classroom?

 

[Balthazzar]

I'm puzzled as to what kind of "Bible" you are talking about or what kinds of classes they would be used in. Is this a case where those documents are included with a Protestant Bible in order to make it look more like the Bible has a secular purpose in the classroom?

Thus far, I have noted the push to include the bible in public schools as part of the curriculum as an historic text, to be studied as an academic by the students, and that to ensure the purpose and intent is clear, the type of bibles to be mandated and utilized should include the declaration of independence, the U.S constitution, the U.S. bill of rights, and the pledge of allegiance. These types of bibles, which Trump supports is specifically what has been addressed as points for discussion. Beyond this, I'm an onlooker waiting for a story or two as a journalist.

 

[Copernicus]

Thus far, I have noted the push to include the bible in public schools as part of the curriculum as an historic text, to be studied as an academic by the students, and that to ensure the purpose and intent is clear, the type of bibles to be mandated and utilized should include the declaration of independence, the U.S constitution, the U.S. bill of rights, and the pledge of allegiance. These types of bibles, which Trump supports is specifically what has been addressed as points for discussion. Beyond this, I'm an onlooker waiting for a story or two as a journalist.

But the government documents are all normal materials already included in every high school curriculum and even in earlier grades. The Bible never is, because it is neither literature nor history. It might be appropriately assigned in a college course on religion or in a parochial school. It's not included in public schools, because it isn't necessary for any class at that level. Also, it would inevitably be used by many high schools inappropriately to proselytize a religious doctrine in the classroom.

 

[Balthazzar]

But the government documents are all normal materials already included in every high school curriculum and even in earlier grades. The Bible never is, because it is neither literature nor history. It might be appropriately assigned in a college course on religion or in a parochial school. It's not included in public schools, because it isn't necessary for any class at that level. Also, it would inevitably be used by many high schools inappropriately to proselytize a religious doctrine in the classroom.

It could be utilized inappropriately, but I'll give today's youth a little more credence than to be so gullible as to not think with a critical mind. Also, it's grade 5 and up, if I'm not mistaken. The bible is both literature and history.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not just Western Civilisation, you must learn about Eastern and African religious texts too.

Sure, but it's important to learn about your own civilization and culture first and foremost. The others can be discussed a bit later.

 

[Copernicus]

It could be utilized inappropriately, but I'll give today's youth a little more credence than to be so gullible as to not think with a critical mind. Also, it's grade 5 and up, if I'm not mistaken.

Young children are less likely to become disruptive over reading assignments from the Bible than teenagers. I know. I've been there, since I was outed as an atheist in my 8th grade literature class. And that was just over classroom lessons on our reading of Huckleberry Finn. As for "today's youth", I don't think that they are all that different from earlier generations, except that they might be a little more wary of being shot while trying to learn something.

The bible is both literature and history.

It is not a history book, and it would only stir up unnecessary controversy to call it fiction. And there is more than one version of the Bible. The Catholic (Septuagint) and Protestant versions are different and are translated from different texts. It is ludicrous to try to include it in a K12 curriculum as either. History books are very different, and there are much more suitable works of fiction that students should be reading.

 

[Heyo]

These types of bibles, which Trump supports is specifically what has been addressed as points for discussion. Beyond this, I'm an onlooker waiting for a story or two as a journalist.

This is the story you are looking for - when you see it for what it is. It's not about "the" Bible, it's about shuffling taxpayer money into Donald Trump's pockets. A bribe from Walters in hope to get a position in a future Trump administration.

 

[Altfish]

Sure, but it's important to learn about your own civilization and culture first and foremost. The others can be discussed a bit later.

Native Indian and Pagan, you mean?

 

[oldbadger]

I teach Christians on RF regularly.
French too!
(@ChristineM is me top student.)

Ranting on about which traction engine is better don't qualify as teaching!

 

[Balthazzar]

Young children are less likely to become disruptive over reading assignments from the Bible than teenagers. I know. I've been there, since I was outed as an atheist in my 8th grade literature class. And that was just over classroom lessons on our reading of Huckleberry Finn. As for "today's youth", I don't think that they are all that different from earlier generations, except that they might be a little more wary of being shot while trying to learn something.



It is not a history book, and it would only stir up unnecessary controversy to call it fiction. And there is more than one version of the Bible. The Catholic (Septuagint) and Protestant versions are different and are translated from different texts. It is ludicrous to try to include it in a K12 curriculum as either. History books are very different, and there are much more suitable works of fiction that students should be reading.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of world government, from past to present, and how these affect today's cultures with a more secular aim and intent. There's no question that religion has played major roles in all the territories of the world, Christianity and Catholicism being the most dominate in our own, having greater influence than the many others. I don't know what is to be taught, how it is to be articulated, or the exact nature of the inclusion, but I presume is has academic merit, otherwise I don't see how we could ever get away with it in this nation after the last 40 plus years of political turmoil to have anything of its kind removed.

As I stated, I'm anticipating an interesting story.

 

[Balthazzar]

This is the story you are looking for - when you see it for what it is. It's not about "the" Bible, it's about shuffling taxpayer money into Donald Trump's pockets. A bribe from Walters in hope to get a position in a future Trump administration.

Civics, citizenship, status, we the people, sociology, government, psychology, activism, freedom of speech, grievances and petitions to bills and laws, court rulings, etc. and how we as citizens process or comprehend the true nature of the decisions made by our courts and how we the people influence those decisions, these seem more apt to be the purpose than just the shuffling of tax payer money into particular pockets, but sure ...money is very likely part of the dynamic, also.

 

[Revoltingest]

As to value judgements, I find many American values to be very poor indeed.

So do I.

That some other countries have equally poor ones does not exonerate the USA at all.

It's not about exoneration.
Nor are they "equal".

It is not good practice to compare your self with the worst.
But to match your self against the best.

That doesn't excuse the poor judgement
of equating USA with the likes of N Korea.

England has its corruption too.
Is it therefore equal to Nazi Germany
& Stalin's USSR?

 

[Pogo]

Civics, citizenship, status, we the people, sociology, government, psychology, activism, freedom of speech, grievances and petitions to bills and laws, court rulings, etc. and how we as citizens process or comprehend the true nature of the decisions made by our courts and how we the people influence those decisions, these seem more apt to be the purpose than just the shuffling of tax payer money into particular pockets, but sure ...money is very likely part of the dynamic, also.

Teaching the Trump Bible isn't about any of those things though they are all normal courses in schools. It is about indoctrinating children into one particular mindset so they believe there way of thinking is the only way and getting Mr. Walker exposure as the kind of Do Be that Trump likes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ranting on about which traction engine is better don't qualify as teaching!

People need to learn the energy saving
virtues of compound engines.

 

[Argentbear]

I'm looking at it from the perspective of world government, from past to present, and how these affect today's cultures with a more secular aim and intent. There's no question that religion has played major roles in all the territories of the world, Christianity and Catholicism being the most dominate in our own, having greater influence than the many others. I don't know what is to be taught, how it is to be articulated, or the exact nature of the inclusion, but I presume is has academic merit, otherwise I don't see how we could ever get away with it in this nation after the last 40 plus years of political turmoil to have anything of its kind removed.

As I stated, I'm anticipating an interesting story.

if it has academic merit it wouldn't have to be mandated

 

[Balthazzar]

Teaching the Trump Bible isn't about any of those things though they are all normal courses in schools. It is about indoctrinating children into one particular mindset so they believe there way of thinking is the only way and getting Mr. Walker exposure as the kind of Do Be that Trump likes.

It wouldn't be teaching the "Trump" bible. It would be including the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Pledge of Allegiance. The bibles to be utilized for the academic application, and for stated purposes include American precepts, and the translation to be utilized is one widespread and very common around the world. It makes sense to me, so long as they Are NOT allowed to teach it as a doctrine to be applied as a vehicle to proselytize and convert students to Christian precepts. The effort also aims to teach and apply art history, which may involve theater, etc. Paris Olympics had a way of including the last supper, and while controversial and seemingly offensive to Christians around the world, it was demonstrated that the inclusion of religious themes does not necessitate indoctrination.

Have a listen to Gojira - Amazing inclusion and performance, in my opinion.

 

[Balthazzar]

if it has academic merit it wouldn't have to be mandated

If not for the efforts made to remove the bible over 40 years ago, it would not need to go through the courts again for the inclusion.

 

[Revoltingest]

It wouldn't be teaching the "Trump" bible.

Are you kidding?
His picture is on the cover.

 

[Pogo]

People need to learn the energy saving
virtues of compound engines.

While going faster.