Oklahoma schools in revolt over Bible mandate

[Subduction Zone]

One, that's a non sequitur, two, what someone does with what or who in their bedroom does not qualify them as a 'minority.'

No, you clearly were name calling and you ducked giving an excuse for that behavior. And what one does in the bedroom can qualify one as a minority. Perhaps you do not understand the concept. Gay and lesbian people are a clear minority. So are various other people that do not fit into the world of Leave it to Beaver.

 

[LeftyLen]

No, you clearly were name calling and you ducked giving an excuse for that behavior. And what one does in the bedroom can qualify one as a minority. Perhaps you do not understand the concept. Gay and lesbian people are a clear minority. So are various other people that do not fit into the world of Leave it to Beaver.

Who goes to bed with who is not a government, or my business. Now you cannot have it both ways, exaltation of sexuality to the 'public square' is a demand for government acceptance, but then crying foul when some complain. The 'next step' is already becoming vocal, that of 'youth oriented persons' YOP demanding ending laws against under aged sexuality. This is clearly the next step in the further decline of society all due to secularism.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

One, that's a non sequitur, two, what someone does with what or who in their bedroom does not qualify them as a 'minority.'

A claim is not a non sequitur. A non sequitur is a conclusion that doesn't follow from whatever argument preceded it.

But your comment is a strawman. He didn't claim that they're a minority because of who they sleep with. Maybe you should have inquired why he said that and argued against that reason, but you didn't.

I'm guessing that he would tell you that they're a minority because they're not a majority. That is what I would tell you.

Who taught you that is was OK to call minorities names?

If it wasn't somebody else earlier, Trump gave him permission to be a bigot out loud.

For me, it was my father, who would have been a Trump Republican today were he still alive. He taught me that it was OK to call blacks n*ggers and Mexicans bean*rs, and I did for a while until my friends straightened me out.

I'm a Deadhead these days and have been for decades to the point that my band's was mostly Dead music, but just before 1970, the name Jerry Garcia had me thinking "bean*er," even though he wasn't Mexican (his family had origins in Spain but not Mexico), but ignorance and indifference characterized my worldview in those days thanks to my father, from whom I eventually became estranged.

I was fortunate to be rescued from that hopeless MAGAoid path while still young. In the end, my liberal NY Jewish mother and my liberal Jewish friends had the greater influence on my thinking.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who goes to bed with who is not a government, or my business. Now you cannot have it both ways, exaltation of sexuality to the 'public square' is a demand for government acceptance, but then crying foul when some complain. The 'next step' is already becoming vocal, that of 'youth oriented persons' YOP demanding ending laws against under aged sexuality. This is clearly the next step in the further decline of society all due to secularism.

That is quite wrong because some people do discriminate on that basis. And that is often, but not always illegal. For example a person renting out housing cannot discriminate against same sex couples.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Who goes to bed with who is not a government, or my business. Now you cannot have it both ways, exaltation of sexuality to the 'public square' is a demand for government acceptance, but then crying foul when some complain. The 'next step' is already becoming vocal, that of 'youth oriented persons' YOP demanding ending laws against under aged sexuality. This is clearly the next step in the further decline of society all due to secularism.

Youth oriented persons have to deal with the simple fact that all of society deems youngsters to have not had time to acquire the knowledge, wisdom and experience to handle some things -- like intoxicants, political questions, how to safely operate vehicles, or who (other than themselves and parents) is permitted to have access to their bodies. And surely this is correct. Humans, because we have so much to learn because of how our brains have evolved, must depend on their parents or guardians to keep them safe for a considerable time. (How long that time is, of course, is a matter of contention. But surely 10 year olds cannot be considered mature enough to permit an adult to do what they want to them.

(In the interest of full disclosure, I did make those decisions for myself. My Children's Aid records include an episode when I -- at 8 years old -- caused an 18 year old boy/man to climax. And I wanted to. If anything, I abused him, rather than the other way around.)

I can't claim that what I disclosed above was good for me. There was simply nobody around to counsel me or stop me, having been taken way from family long before. I survived it -- I know others who did not.

But this was not the result of secularism! Not at all. I was living, at the time, at the Protestant Children's Village in Ottawa. Notice that word "Protestant?" That's a religious denomination. And I challenge you to demonstrate that not allowing youths to drive, drink, vote or make the beast with two backs before some (arbitrary) age is in some way related to religion -- or not related to it.

 

[Argentbear]

One, that's a non sequitur,

so you are saying parts of the bible are not literature.

two, what someone does with what or who in their bedroom does not qualify them as a 'minority.'

LGBT people are a minority and your personal prejudice doesn't change that fact.

My question still stands - who taught you that name calling and homophobic statements are OK things?

 

[Argentbear]

Who goes to bed with who is not a government, or my business. Now you cannot have it both ways, exaltation of sexuality to the 'public square' is a demand for government acceptance, but then crying foul when some complain. The 'next step' is already becoming vocal, that of 'youth oriented persons' YOP demanding ending laws against under aged sexuality. This is clearly the next step in the further decline of society all due to secularism.

Oh please hate groups have been spreading the lie about ending laws against under aged sexuality for decades.

 

[Argentbear]

That is quite wrong because some people do discriminate on that basis. And that is often, but not always illegal. For example a person renting out housing cannot discriminate against same sex couples.

Sadly housing discrimination against LGBT people is legal in more than half of the states.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sadly housing discrimination against LGBT people is legal in more than half of the states.

For now. That seems to be the sort of right that should be federal in scope.

 

[crossfire]

Who goes to bed with who is not a government, or my business. Now you cannot have it both ways, exaltation of sexuality to the 'public square' is a demand for government acceptance, but then crying foul when some complain. The 'next step' is already becoming vocal, that of 'youth oriented persons' YOP demanding ending laws against under aged sexuality. This is clearly the next step in the further decline of society all due to secularism.

I have a question: which measurable factors are you using to define "the further decline of society?" Crime rates? Sexual assaults? Property crimes? Mental stability? Poverty rates? Infant mortality rates? Human trafficking? Over which period of time?

 

[anna.]

Oh please hate groups have been spreading the lie about ending laws against under aged sexuality for decades.

While simultaneously holding out for child marriage. Remember Phil Robertson?

“They got to where they’re getting hard to find, mainly because these boys are waiting ‘til they get to be about 20 years old before they marry ‘em,” Robertson says in a video clip that resurfaced Monday. “Look, you wait ‘til they get to be 20 years old, the only picking that’s going to take place is your pocket. You got to marry these girls when they are about 15 or 16. They’ll pick your ducks.​

​

Make sure that she can cook a meal. You need to eat some meals that she cooks, check that out. Make sure she carries her Bible. That’ll save you a lot of trouble down the road..."​

​

https://www.cnn.com/2013/12/31/showbiz/duck-dynasty-phil-robertson-comments/index.html

 

[Revoltingest]

Apparently OK wanted only
Trump Bibles in public schools.

'Trump Bible' one of few that meet Walters' criteria for Oklahoma classrooms

Bibles endorsed by former President Donald Trump cost $60 each online, with Trump receiving fees for his endorsement.

www.oklahoman.com

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I am not concerned so much with intent as with conduct. The Bible as literature is a core foundation , a major cultural mooring of western culture. To deny that fact is a travesty. Now will fundamentalists see this as an opportunity to 'get the camels nose in the tent"? yes indeed, the far right fundies and far left woke both would like to get their tentacles in the schools and must always be watched. Bible as literature must be taught, nothing more

Well said. We definitely need more instruction in religion, cultural history and philosophy in schools. It's essential to understanding Western Civilization.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Well said. We definitely need more instruction in religion, cultural history and philosophy in schools. It's essential to understanding Western Civilization.

We need more teaching about all religions in schools, with an emphasis on how they have effected society and politics around the world. Western civilization is only one aspect of this. As all civilizations play and have played their part. In establishing the modern world.

It would be very useful to teach how the Chinese organise their Government processes at all levels and in how this compares to the American model. And how each country supports religions in their regions.

It would also be useful to compare the relationship between governments and religion in the various countries and regions of the world.

A noteworthy example would be the government of Singapore with it's very strict laws , universal social support and strong capitalist tradition.

The American concept of society religion and government is clearly out of step with a majority of the world. And is possibly the most institutionally corrupt and financially bankrupt at all levels.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

We definitely need more instruction in religion, cultural history and philosophy in schools. It's essential to understanding Western Civilization.

To accomplish what goal? What societal need is met by that?

Those are typically college level electives, not core curriculum, nor information most people possess or need other than some world and national history. I never had a course in religion or philosophy. Grade school is for teaching what a person most needs to know to benefit himself and society. The taxpayer doesn't benefit from grade school educational resources being directed to such topics, nor do most citizens.

More useful to them is basic language skills, basic math, basic science, essential history, basic civics and the like.

Nonacademic areas of value are home economics, sex education, and PE. These are things that actually benefit society and the students, not comparative religion or the influence of the Bible on culture.

After watching a hundred or so police interventions on YouTube that didn't end well (especially traffic stops), I'd add that they need to know their rights and responsibilities according to the law for the ones who want to be defiant have a chance to stay out of jail. You shouldn't have to learn that you are required to show ID or get out of the car when asked (told, really) to do so by having your car window smashed, being dragged out of the vehicle, being arrested, cuffed, and taken to jail, and having the car towed and impounded after shouting about knowing their rights, naming assorted Constitutional Amendments, giving cops orders, telling them that they need permission or warrants to conduct searches, etc.. Better to know that that will happen before it does. It might not help with the drunks, but it would be a service to would-be sovereign citizens, for example, who are susceptible to misinformation because of that ignorance of the law.

And let's not be naive. We know the intentions of the people that want to get their Bible into classrooms. It's not about students learning comparative religion or about the influence of the Bible on culture. It's not about education at all. Such people are neither academics nor educators. They're Christians working to regain access to the minds of children not taught Christianity at home or taken to churches. They're the same people promoting historical revisionism, book banning, and a national abortion ban: Christian theocrats. They lie continually like the three Trump SCOTUS nominees who lied about their intentions regarding overturning Roe when being confirmed.

We should believe these people when they tell us who they are and what they want. These aren't just fringe characters who nobody ever heard of and who have/had no influence. These theocrats are the kinds of people who rise to prominence in American Christianity:

• "The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to his Church's public marks of the covenant-baptism and holy communion-must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel." - Christian Dominionist Gary North
• "I hope to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be." - Jerry Falwell
• "There will never be world peace until God's house and God's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world." - Pat Robertson

 

[wellwisher]

I'm OK with the Constitution and Declaration of Independence but the Bible and the Ten Commandments belong in a Sunday school or parochial charter school. That's what those schools are for.

If you read the first Amendment, all the controls for religion, free speech and the press, are on the Federal Government and not the people. Somehow the DNC has pushed the false narrative that all the control is on the people and the Government can violate the Constitution. The goal is to revisit this in court, and not just accept Socialism pretending to be Democracy.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The political left has done the opposite. They promote the cross dresser and Dei religions, they force social media to censor, fake news promotes the Left wing government propaganda, the Government engages in law fare, all of which violate the common sense of 1st Amendment wording, which places all the restriction of Government, not the citizens.

If you read the words, where does it say the government has the last say in terms of freedom of religion, speech and press? It says Congress; Government shall make no such laws. The spirit of the Amendment was violated by the DNC, with media censorship of the hunter Biden Laptop story that allowed the DNC to steal an election. It turned a peaceful demonstration on Jan 6 into a Government excuse to violate the right to redress grievances about a crooked DNC election steal.

One thing I would like to see is all lawyers, both offense and defense have to take the oath of truth, at the risk of perjury. All witness have to take such an oath but shady lawyer are exempt? Lawyers do not have to take an oath to tell the truth, but can run scams. The DNC should have dozens of lawyers in jail, including most of their main leaders who are also lawyers=liars and who perjured themself. What kind of justice system does not keep shady lawyers honest? It is same type of people who prevented the first amendment.

 

[Argentbear]

If you read the first Amendment, all the controls for religion, free speech and the press, are on the Federal Government and not the people. Somehow the DNC has pushed the false narrative that all the control is on the people and the Government can violate the Constitution. The goal is to revisit this in court, and not just accept Socialism pretending to be Democracy.



The political left has done the opposite. They promote the cross dresser and Dei religions, they force social media to censor, fake news promotes the Left wing government propaganda, the Government engages in law fare, all of which violate the common sense of 1st Amendment wording, which places all the restriction of Government, not the citizens.

If you read the words, where does it say the government has the last say in terms of freedom of religion, speech and press? It says Congress; Government shall make no such laws. The spirit of the Amendment was violated by the DNC, with media censorship of the hunter Biden Laptop story that allowed the DNC to steal an election. It turned a peaceful demonstration on Jan 6 into a Government excuse to violate the right to redress grievances about a crooked DNC election steal.

One thing I would like to see is all lawyers, both offense and defense have to take the oath of truth, at the risk of perjury. All witness have to take such an oath but shady lawyer are exempt? Lawyers do not have to take an oath to tell the truth, but can run scams. The DNC should have dozens of lawyers in jail, including most of their main leaders who are also lawyers=liars and who perjured themself. What kind of justice system does not keep shady lawyers honest? It is same type of people who prevented the first amendment.

Crooked lawyers who work to destroy this country should be locked up.
Rudy Giuliani
John Eastman
Sidney Powell
Jeffrey Clark
Kenneth Chesebro
all top to the list of those traitorous lawyers.

 

[metis]

The goal is to revisit this in court, and not just accept Socialism pretending to be Democracy.

They are not contradictory if you actually studied both because of the many variations.

The political left has done the opposite. They promote the cross dresser and Dei religions, t

Another disgraceful falsehood on your part. There's a difference between "promoting" versus "allowing" out of respect for people's personal choices.

It turned a peaceful demonstration on Jan 6 into a Government excuse to violate the right to redress grievances about a crooked DNC election steal.

What a nonsensical fabrication that anyone can easily check on:

 

[Pogo]

They are not contradictory if you actually studied both because of the many variations.



Another disgraceful falsehood on your part. There's a difference between "promoting" versus "allowing" out of respect for people's personal choices.



What a nonsensical fabrication that anyone can easily check on:

It is amazing to me that the same people complaining about the occasional violence at the many George Floyd protests consider Jan. 6 to be peaceful.

 

[Altfish]

Well said. We definitely need more instruction in religion, cultural history and philosophy in schools. It's essential to understanding Western Civilization.

Not just Western Civilisation, you must learn about Eastern and African religious texts too.