Old Earth vs Young Earth Debate

[Native]

You really shouldn’t take myth so literally, or worse, so scientifically.

So you think the Sun revolve around this nonexistence Mt Meru, because Meru is 85 times the diameter of Earth?

Are you assuming that Mt Meru is the galactic centre of the Milky Way?

Well, news flash, Native:

The Sun’s mean diameter is 1,392,684 km, therefore the sun is about 109.5 times that of the Earth’s diameter.

And the sun is by no mean the largest in size or mass. And when the Sun become red giant star, it could have radius of anywhere between 10 times and as much as 100 times its current radius.

So if you are going to compare Meru to Earth, then don’t overlook the Sun.

Mt Meru is still a myth.

You have to keep onto the context and contents when replying. The Mound Meru myth CLEARLY STATES that the Sun and entire Solar System revolves around this point. So referring to the Sun and it´s numbers is completely irrelevant.

You:
"So you think the Sun revolve around this nonexistence Mt Meru, because Meru is 85 times the diameter of Earth"?

No. The logics here speaks of a cosmic mound/mount which is so high that it only can be positioned somewhere outside the Earth.

Yes Mount Meru is a mumbo-jumbo-myth for all who hasn´t the mythical, astronomical and cosmological insights.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Silly replies as your "85 times the Earth diameter high mountain is located on the Earth" can only be met by a big laugh and a silly comment to you.

Further on: No matter what evidens I could provide, I doubt that you will be able to connect the dots since you have parked your logical senses somewhere outside your brain.

PERIOD for me answering your none sense.

Hardly silly. You forgot that we are dealing with people with rather childish beliefs. Kids exaggerate, and so did the ancient story tellers. And your last claim was pure projection on your part. We both know that you sadly lack the ability to reason logically here.

Let's go over the concept of evidence. If you learn how to use evidence then it is less likely you will make the same errors in the future.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have to keep onto the context and contents when replying. The Mound Meru myth CLEARLY STATES that the Sun and entire Solar System revolves around this point. So referring to the Sun and it´s numbers is completely irrelevant.

You:
"So you think the Sun revolve around this nonexistence Mt Meru, because Meru is 85 times the diameter of Earth"?

No. The logics here speaks of a cosmic mound/mount which is so high that it only can be positioned somewhere outside the Earth.

Yes Mount Meru is a mumbo-jumbo-myth for all who hasn´t the mythical, astronomical and cosmological insights.

Once again the answer is kid and ancients told big whoppers. Mountains can't get that high on Earth, people don't live for thousands of years . This is not that hard to understand.

 

[Native]

Hardly silly. You forgot that we are dealing with people with rather childish beliefs. Kids exaggerate, and so did the ancient story tellers. And your last claim was pure projection on your part. We both know that you sadly lack the ability to reason logically here.

Let's go over the concept of evidence. If you learn how to use evidence then it is less likely you will make the same errors in the future.

------
So, besides your lack of logical sense, you also are a cultural ignorant without any true mythical knowledge. So you mean than ancient people who build the Pyramids and Temples all over the world with astronomical references are "people with rather childish beliefs" ?

Get lost in your Zubduction Zone

 

[Subduction Zone]

------
So, besides your lack of logical sense, you also are a cultural ignorant without any true mythical knowledge. So you mean than ancient people who build the Pyramids and Temples all over the world with astronomical references are "people with rather childish beliefs" ?

Get lost in your Zubduction Zone

Now please, you and I both know that the problem is your ability to think logically. Making false claims about others only makes you look foolish. And yes, when it comes to the unknown they tend to have very childish beliefs. Many Christians, Muslims, Hindus etc. today have childish beliefs.

You know that all of these religions contradict each other. The beliefs of them are rather childish from the perspective of those that disagree with them. They are only blind to their own childish beliefs. As the saying goes only one can be right, but all of them can be wrong.

 

[Audie]

------
So, besides your lack of logical sense, you also are a cultural ignorant without any true mythical knowledge. So you mean than ancient people who build the Pyramids and Temples all over the world with astronomical references are "people with rather childish beliefs" ?

Get lost in your Zubduction Zone

Really, if you think about it a bit, it makes sense that
an individual, a culture can have some backward and some
very progressive ideas. "Childish" may be a poor choice of words.

Take the Romans. Very tough, pragmatic,
and effective in engineering, warfare. But
superstitious.

Egyptians did amazing things, but never
figured out zero, or arch-and-keystone.

Subzy was making sense, far as I can see.
Dont get too hung up on the word "childish"?

 

[gnostic]

So, besides your lack of logical sense, you also are a cultural ignorant without any true mythical knowledge. So you mean than ancient people who build the Pyramids and Temples all over the world with astronomical references are "people with rather childish beliefs" ?

What astronomical references?

What pyramids or temples are talking about specifically that have these references?

 

[Native]

Really, if you think about it a bit, it makes sense that
an individual, a culture can have some backward and some
very progressive ideas. "Childish" may be a poor choice of words.

Take the Romans. Very tough, pragmatic,
and effective in engineering, warfare. But
superstitious.

Egyptians did amazing things, but never
figured out zero, or arch-and-keystone.

Subzy was making sense, far as I can see.
Dont get too hung up on the word "childish"?

------
I an discussing the cultural myths of creation here and not things as warfare, engineering, calculus etc. etc. Besides this did the Roman Empire abandoned their ancient pantheon of creation deities about 325 AD and adopted the childish Christianity

 

[Native]

Now please, you and I both know that the problem is your ability to think logically. Making false claims about others only makes you look foolish. And yes, when it comes to the unknown they tend to have very childish beliefs. Many Christians, Muslims, Hindus etc. today have childish beliefs.

You know that all of these religions contradict each other. The beliefs of them are rather childish from the perspective of those that disagree with them. They are only blind to their own childish beliefs. As the saying goes only one can be right, but all of them can be wrong.

--------
I know for sure that you have problems with my logical senses

The cultural religions dont originally have contradictive issues. The contradictions comes when humans have problems with understanding the genuine causes and origin to religion and mythology, thus interpreting the religious contents with a "veil before their eyes".

The "childish understanding", as you put it, of the religious and mythical contents derives mostly from the lack of natural understanding by historic and modern humans, which have lost contact to nature on the Earth and Heaven as such, but our ancestors were not stupid, even when they lived in Stone Age caves.

You just try to survive with a bow and arrow in the outback. You wouldn´t survive a fortnight.

 

[Subduction Zone]

--------
I know for sure that you have problems with my logical senses

The cultural religions dont originally have contradictive issues. The contradictions comes when humans have problems with understanding the genuine causes and origin to religion and mythology, thus interpreting the religious contents with a "veil before their eyes".

The "childish understanding", as you put it, of the religious and mythical contents derives mostly from the lack of natural understanding by historic and modern humans, which have lost contact to nature on the Earth and Heaven as such, but our ancestors were not stupid, even when they lived in Stone Age caves.

You just try to survive with a bow and arrow in the outback. You wouldn´t survive a fortnight.

If you truly knew you could demonstrate that you can reason and argue logically. Since you cannot do the logical conclusion is that that is an erroneous belief on your part.

Your weak excuses only confirm my claims.

Your belief in woo gets in the way when you try to reason.

 

[Native]

What astronomical references?

What pyramids or temples are talking about specifically that have these references?

-----------------------
Here are some links for you to study:
Archaeoastronomy - Wikipedia

Ankhor Wat - https://www.planetquest.org/learn/angkor.html

Angkor Wat - Wikipedia (Quote: “Angkor Wat, located at 13°24′45″N 103°52′0″E, is a unique combination of the temple mountain (the standard design for the empire's state temples) and the later plan of concentric galleries. The construction of Angkor Wat also suggests that there was a celestial significance with certain features of the temple. This is observed in the temple's east-west orientation, and lines of sight from terraces within the temple that show specific towers to be at the precise location of the sunrise on a solstice.[31] The temple is a representation of Mount Meru, the home of the gods.)”

Mayan Astronomy - Civilization.ca - Mystery of the Maya - Astronomy

Further readings on these links: "Temples and Astronomical references"

 

[Native]

If you truly knew you could demonstrate that you can reason and argue logically. Since you cannot do the logical conclusion is that that is an erroneous belief on your part.

Your weak excuses only confirm my claims.

Your belief in woo gets in the way when you try to reason.

-------------
When I earlier asked you into the Mount Meru matter, you answered that this (astronomical high) mountain was located on the Earth.
This just says it all about your skills to read a text and use logical thinking.
You aren´t even able read and discuss and argue with sentenses on a certain topic, but keep coming with your personal judgement without having the slightest religious, mythical or astronomical background for judging what I´m writing about.

Period! I´m just ignoring you from now.

 

[Subduction Zone]

-------------
When I earlier asked you into the Mount Meru matter, you answered that this (astronomical high) mountain was located on the Earth.
This just says it all about your skills to read a text and use logical thinking.
You aren´t even able read and discuss and argue with sentenses on a certain topic, but keep coming with your personal judgement without having the slightest religious, mythical or astronomical background for judging what I´m writing about.

Period! I´m just ignoring you from now.

I explained Mt. Meru to you. Your mistake was to take the belief literally in light of today's knowledge. What this really tells us is about your ability to reason. I have seen this inability not only in posts to me but in posts to others as well. And what makes you think that I do not have the background? Just because I can point out obvious errors of yours?

If you can't stand the corrections and refuse ro learn perhaps an open forum is not the best place to post your woo.

 

[Native]

I explained Mt. Meru to you. Your mistake was to take the belief literally in light of today's knowledge. What this really tells us is about your ability to reason. I have seen this inability not only in posts to me but in posts to others as well. And what makes you think that I do not have the background? Just because I can point out obvious errors of yours?

If you can't stand the corrections and refuse ro learn perhaps an open forum is not the best place to post your woo.

------------------
Quote earlier:
Native said: ↑

@gnostic & Zubduction Zone,

What do you think of this ancient Hindu myth:

Quote from - Mount Meru - Wikipedia
"Mount Meru of Hindu traditions has clearly mythical aspects, being described as 84,000 Yojana high (about 1,082,000 km (672,000 mi), which would be 85 times the Earth's diameter, and notes that the Sun along with all the planets in the Solar System revolve around Mt. Meru as one unit".

You answered here Link: #171
--------------------
"That they had no clue. Many religions were geocentrists. And they could often pick the point that everything rotated around. This appears to harm your claims since Mt. Meru would be a mythical mountain on Earth, at least that is how I read it".
--------------------
Do you call this an explanation? An astronomic high mythical mountain residing on the Earth? What was you thinking about? You could at least have mentioned the Earth celestial axis when referring to the geocentric argument and a point around which everything SEEMINGLY rotated, but you didn´t even grasp the text in my question.

But OK. You have a geocentric worldview, in spite modern science have observed otherwise for centuries. Maybe you also are a Flat Earther as well? Or maybe you are a high priest in the literary orthodox Jewish Religion?

 

[Audie]

------
I an discussing the cultural myths of creation here and not things as warfare, engineering, calculus etc. etc. Besides this did the Roman Empire abandoned their ancient pantheon of creation deities about 325 AD and adopted the childish Christianity

If you would prefer not to see any sense is
what I said that is fine, but you've no call to get snippy with me. "Childish Christianity"?

But then I see that is how you talk to people.*
Refrain svp from any further interaction with me.

*Maybe you also are a Flat Earther as well? Or maybe you are a high priest i

 

[Audie]

I explained Mt. Meru to you. Your mistake was to take the belief literally in light of today's knowledge. What this really tells us is about your ability to reason. I have seen this inability not only in posts to me but in posts to others as well. And what makes you think that I do not have the background? Just because I can point out obvious errors of yours?

If you can't stand the corrections and refuse ro learn perhaps an open forum is not the best place to post your woo.

Isn't no "perhaps" to it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

------------------
Quote earlier:
Native said: ↑

@gnostic & Zubduction Zone,

What do you think of this ancient Hindu myth:

Quote from - Mount Meru - Wikipedia
"Mount Meru of Hindu traditions has clearly mythical aspects, being described as 84,000 Yojana high (about 1,082,000 km (672,000 mi), which would be 85 times the Earth's diameter, and notes that the Sun along with all the planets in the Solar System revolve around Mt. Meru as one unit".

You answered here Link: #171
--------------------
"That they had no clue. Many religions were geocentrists. And they could often pick the point that everything rotated around. This appears to harm your claims since Mt. Meru would be a mythical mountain on Earth, at least that is how I read it".
--------------------
Do you call this an explanation? An astronomic high mythical mountain residing on the Earth? What was you thinking about? You could at least have mentioned the Earth celestial axis when referring to the geocentric argument and a point around which everything SEEMINGLY rotated, but you didn´t even grasp the text in my question.

But OK. You have a geocentric worldview, in spite modern science have observed otherwise for centuries. Maybe you also are a Flat Earther as well? Or maybe you are a high priest in the literary orthodox Jewish Religion?

If you did not understand you should have asked. Mythical basically means "make believe" or "not real". Talk to little kids some day they will come up with explanations for things that are wildly self contradicting at times. The story of Mt Meru is just that. You won't to put an unmerited deeper explanation on it when i one should simply see how the story sounds like it was made up by someone with no real knowledge of the world.

What is worse with your attempt to reinterpret after the fact you will get a totally different answer than another follower of woo. The simplest answer "they did not know any better" is usually the best. If you want to claim it was something else, such as a supposed knowledge, you put the burden of proof squarely upon yourself. An inability to provide evidence for your ideas makes them self refuting.

 

[Audie]

If you did not understand you should have asked. Mythical basically means "make believe" or "not real". Talk to little kids some day they will come up with explanations for things that are wildly self contradicting at times. The story of Mt Meru is just that. You won't to put an unmerited deeper explanation on it when i one should simply see how the story sounds like it was made up by someone with no real knowledge of the world.

What is worse with your attempt to reinterpret after the fact you will get a totally different answer than another follower of woo. The simplest answer "they did not know any better" is usually the best. If you want to claim it was something else, such as a supposed knowledge, you put the burden of proof squarely upon yourself. An inability to provide evidence for your ideas makes them self refuting.

As with others, we suggest you consult a dictionary before,
ah, Pontificating.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As with others, we suggest you consult a dictionary before,
ah, Pontificating.

"occurring in or characteristic of myths or folk tales."

Sounds like "basically made up" to me. Now granted many myths have a basis in actual events. Mt. Meru is probably based on the observation of tall mountains and making up a story about a mountain at the "center of the Earth" (for a flat Earth the center could be a point on a plane) that everything rotated around. In fact as given the Mt. Meru myth is a flat Earth myth. Still the stories themselves are made up. Perhaps you have different definition of mythical than I have.

 

[Audie]

"occurring in or characteristic of myths or folk tales."

Sounds like "basically made up" to me. Now granted many myths have a basis in actual events. Mt. Meru is probably based on the observation of tall mountains and making up a story about a mountain at the "center of the Earth" (for a flat Earth the center could be a point on a plane) that everything rotated around. In fact as given the Mt. Meru myth is a flat Earth myth. Still the stories themselves are made up. Perhaps you have different definition of mythical than I have.

Your prob., bud, is ya didnt bother with even the very first definition that pops up on google, no link clickin' even needed.

myth
miTH/
noun

1. 1.
   a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.