Would you mind answering my question?
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Old Earth vs Young Earth Debate
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
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I just did - and I´m replying in my own good time and I´m not sitting behind the screen constantly.
No, as a matter of fact you did not, but it's obvious enough that I see no need to pursue it.
gnostic
The Lost One
Congratulations, you can quote from the source, but the facts remain, as your source indicated, there were no Talmud in Jesus’ time, which you have claimed. They weren’t written until centuries later.
You saying that the Pharisees had manipulated the Hebrew Scriptures using the Talmud is still a false claim, on your part.
Second, if the Jews had corrupted the “Old Testament” or so the Christians have claimed, Christians have done so even more, by borrowing foreign religious concepts into “Christianity”.
And I am not talking about Christmas Day, Christmas tree or the Easter eggs.
The concept of resurrection itself, which form the very basis of Christian core faith in the salvation, is also a very pagan Egyptian and Greek concepts, not a Jewish one.
The concept of resurrection was first recorded in Egypt, in the 5th dynasty and then the 6th, hieroglyphs written in tombs of some of the rulers at Saqqara, known as the Pyramid Texts.
But the they have been building pyramids since Djoser in the 3rd dynasty, and tombs of mastaba-type since the predynastic period (3500 BCE). Whether they believe in resurrection in these earlier dynasties and predynastic epoch, the probability is yes.
The ancient Egyptian religion continued to developed through the age (eg the New Kingdom’s 20th dynasty, Book of the Dead, known as the Papyrus of Ani), mid-13th century BCE), right down to Jesus’ time, including being judged in the presence of Osiris, with Anubis weighing the person’s soul against the feather of Ma’at, and the scribe Thoth recording the verdicts in his book. They had their versions of heaven (Field of Reed) and hell (Daut).
There are various Greek religions, but the most common is that the souls were being judged either by Hades or Persephone, and will go the Elysian Fields, the Asphodel Fields and for the most wicked to Tartarus.
Throughout the Hellenistic period, Jews were surrounded by Greeks and Egyptians, and some of them rubbed on them, as foreign concepts were found in the Book of Enoch.
The epistle of Jude mentioned something relating to Enoch, just show how influential the Book of Enoch.
One of the imagery of hell, the Lake Of Fire, don’t exist inches Old Testament, but found in the New Testament Revelation. The same concept of that in Egyptian lore. The Greeks have the river of fire,
Phlegethon, instead of a lake, one of the 5 rivers in Hades.
My point is that if you believe 1st century Jews had corrupted Judaism, then it is nothing when compared what Christians did with the New Testament in the 1st century.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Nice attempt to shift the burden of proof. Do you have any valid sources that support you?-------
I am stunned that you already have read the two books and concluded that both this author and I am wrong
gnostic
The Lost One
Oh please, you are stating the obvious.
The Babylonian astronomers were even more advanced in astronomy than the Egyptians, and they also connect the Milky Way to their own sky goddess, Ishtar, and she was also connected to the morning star, Venus.
But so what?
Both civilisations have their own astronomy, and their own religions and myths, but none of them really understood what the Milky Way is.
You are just putting modern interpretations, and trying to mix modern astronomy with myths, and failing at both.
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
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Do you realise what you are writing here? How can a Milky Way goddess be connected to planet Venus?
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
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What is the purpose of providing proofs to you when you dont care to read it?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Find something legitimate. I checked out your O'Neill source, that is far from that.
History has its equivalent to peer review. I suggest that you find something that has passed that.
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
@gnostic & Zubduction Zone,
What do you think of this ancient Hindu myth:
Quote from - Mount Meru - Wikipedia
"Mount Meru of Hindu traditions has clearly mythical aspects, being described as 84,000 Yojana high (about 1,082,000 km (672,000 mi), which would be 85 times the Earth's diameter, and notes that the Sun along with all the planets in the Solar System revolve around Mt. Meru as one unit".
What do you think of this ancient Hindu myth:
Quote from - Mount Meru - Wikipedia
"Mount Meru of Hindu traditions has clearly mythical aspects, being described as 84,000 Yojana high (about 1,082,000 km (672,000 mi), which would be 85 times the Earth's diameter, and notes that the Sun along with all the planets in the Solar System revolve around Mt. Meru as one unit".
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That they had no clue. Many religions were geocentrists. And they could often pick the point that everything rotated around. This appears to harm your claims since Mt. Meru would be a mythical mountain on Earth, at least that is how I read it.
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
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Of course the religions were geocentrists since the Earth is the center from where we observe everything and of course humans all over the world have observed the nocturnal axial point around which the stars, star constellations and the contours of the Milky Way seemingly revolves.
You read the Mount Meru as a mythical mountain on Earth, so do you really think there is a mythical Mount Meru on the Earth which is "85 times the Earth's diameter" as the Hindu myth states?
Your unreflected comments really harm yourself, dont you think?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Of course not. And no, investing in woo harms oneself.
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
As far as I concern right now, you can go up in your 85 times higher than the Earth diameter high mountain on the Earth and stay there
That´s ridicules.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You do realize that when you make claims that you cannot support that you invite ridicule, don't you?As far as I concern right now, you can go up in your 85 times higher than the Earth diameter high mountain on the Earth and stay there
gnostic
The Lost One
She has dozens of attributes.
Do you think the ancient gods cannot have contradictions?
Athena is the goddess of war and of peace?
Artemis is the virgin goddess, she was also the goddess of childbirth. And in some places in Asia Minor, like in Ephesus, she was fertility goddess, and there is a statue of her with many breasts, which indicate that she was a mother goddess.
Apollo is the god healing, and patron of physicians, and yet he is also the god of pestilence.
gnostic
The Lost One
You really shouldn’t take myth so literally, or worse, so scientifically.
So you think the Sun revolve around this nonexistence Mt Meru, because Meru is 85 times the diameter of Earth?
Are you assuming that Mt Meru is the galactic centre of the Milky Way?
Well, news flash, Native:
The Sun’s mean diameter is 1,392,684 km, therefore the sun is about 109.5 times that of the Earth’s diameter.
And the sun is by no mean the largest in size or mass. And when the Sun become red giant star, it could have radius of anywhere between 10 times and as much as 100 times its current radius.
So if you are going to compare Meru to Earth, then don’t overlook the Sun.
Mt Meru is still a myth.
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You know what, gnostic? I agree with you except that the full corruption of "Christianity" didn't happen until all of the apostles had died.....that was at the close of the first century.....so all your protesting is a bit moot. You have clearly not read what I have written....or decided that I was saying something I didn't.
It was foretold in scripture that only a remnant of the natural Jews would be saved; few became followers of Jesus for all the reasons already outlined. So the corruption of Judaism was identified without reservation by Jesus.....but it was also foretold that the same thing would happen to "Christianity".....and not long after the Greek scriptures were completed, the "apostasy" that was foretold, took over the church. It was already snapping at the heels of the apostles who were acting as a "restraint" back then. (2 Thessalonians 2:3-12) The church's history is appalling, yet most believe that the apostasy never happened.
So you see....you are right and have been arguing against yourself all this time, apparently. JW's are no part of Christendom. Just as Christians had to separate from Judaism, so we had to separate from Christendom. (Revelation 18:4) We hold nothing in common with them.
I particularly like the prophesies of Daniel because they all pertain to the time we are living in now..."The time of the end". We can now understand Daniels' prophesies because their meanings were hidden until the "last days" of this system of things began. Now they all make perfect sense.
gnostic
The Lost One
Sorry, but I think you are just mincing words.
But the Hebrews have been borrowing ideas since the Assyrians, Babylonians and Persians (eg creation and flood stories, the hierarchy of angels and personalising angels with names, and the dualism of good vs evil, and the need to personifying evil in Satan), and continued on with Hellenistic presence after Alexander the Great (with resurrection, and the afterlife in heaven and in hell, the divine reward and divine punishment).
The older Jewish eschatology is rather vague, so any reward and punishment occurred when people were alive, but when they died, they all go to Sheol, which is neither heaven or hell, but the netherworld that all departed go, regardless they were good and or bad.
By Hellenistic time, a lot of things had changed, when pre-Christian Jews were influenced by foreign concepts that can be found in the books of Enoch and that of Jubilees.
Both works were very influential to the Christians of the 1st century CE.
The idea of Jesus being a literal son of god and of mortal woman is a pagan concept. That’s just un-Jewish as some Christians thinking Jesus is God, or being part of the trinity of godhood.
The foreign influences started before the Exile to Babylon, as just the first snowball, but with the spread of Christianity and the NT writings, the snowballs have become an avalanche.
Yes, Christianity did undergo change after the 1st century, but only because Jesus started this further “corruption” in the first place.
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Silly replies as your "85 times the Earth diameter high mountain is located on the Earth" can only be met by a big laugh and a silly comment to you.
Further on: No matter what evidens I could provide, I doubt that you will be able to connect the dots since you have parked your logical senses somewhere outside your brain.
PERIOD for me answering your none sense.