On Evolution & Creation

[John53]

But the animals and fowl will produce offspring of like kind
Show me one critter that produced a totally different critter.

You'll need to define kind and critter before anyone can answer that.

I'd say a Maltese Terrier is a different critter to a Grey Wolf but my interpretation of critter might be different than yours. By kind do you mean species, genus, family, order, class, phylum or kingdom? Or maybe something else?

 

[Valjean]

It came from the imagination of someone whatever his/her title may be. That's what every one says my God is.

So is your God George Gamow, Arno Penzias, or Robert Wilson?

The Big Bang is based on an assumption as there is not a scientist that will tell you that something existed at T=0. That would be like admitting God existed. The will tell you "we dnon't know yet".

Not following.
The 'Big Bang' model, as I understand it, is based on general relativity and evidence extrapolated from observation of the remaining cosmic microwave background radiation.
True, no scientist can describe a pre-Planck time reality, but how does any of this imply a god?

 

[Valjean]

So it happened by punctuated accretion? Is that what you are saying? .

Enjoy,

Are you familiar with Universal Gravitation? Matter accretes. There was mater in the early universe.

 

[Valjean]

I'm not sure how people might figure about certain gods like Isis or Apollo, things like that -- but my faith is not built on sand, as the saying goes. Even if you say it is, I disagree, but apparently that seems logical also. Because even though the Bible has a distinct history about God and how He dealt with people, it would be hard to discern by some. Anyway, have a nice day and hope all is well with you. Take care.

It doesn't have a 'theory', in any scientific sense. It has claims, but the claims have no more evidentiary backing than the claims about Thor or Athena.
Where does the Bible provide any observable or testable evidence for this God?

 

[Valjean]

No, I don't claim to be a Christian. I do claim to be a child of God's. I do claim to be a born again child of God as I have been born again and washed in the blood of the Lamb that was sacrificed at Calvary in my place.

There is no difference in the two of us. Other than the blood of Christ paid my sin debt, and I don't have to pay it.
I am just a wretched old human being that is no better than any other human being. Do I deserve God's Mercy and Grace? No!!! Do I have His Mercy and Grace? !!!He died for my sins!!!

Maybe I should use Isaiah's words in Isaiah 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Enjoy,

You may not claim it, but you sure sound like a Christian, with all this Christian mythology you're going on about.
Q: What actual evidence do you have to back any of these claims up?

 

[Valjean]

icant said:
Was it [ocean formation]before or after all the material that decomposed and formed the trillions of barrels of oil that is up to five miles below the ocean floor? There is a lot of rock on top of that oil.

Think about it, icant.
The oil formed from organic matter. There was no life before the oceans formed, so how would you expect buried and decayed organic material to pre-date the emergence of organic matter?

 

[Pogo]

What is the difference in what you referenced and what I said?

If you read the link to basic level (grade school) understanding you would have found that besides oil coming from organic matter, pretty much everything you said was at best inaccurate. If you want to have a discussion with any-one knowledgeable on the subject, you at least need a HS level understanding of the basics. From this and other questions it is apparent that you are either being disingenuous or not even at HS level (due to creationist pseudoscience indoctrination?).

 

[Argentbear]

Yes.

Can you show me one instance, other than a mule. But that mule cannot reproduce anything.
She can produce a lot of work.

Enjoy,

Yes.
But the animals and fowl will produce offspring of like kind
Show me one critter that produced a totally different critter.

Enjoy,

Siberian foxes have spit into a feral and domesticated line there is some question if the domesticated Siberian foxes are even foxes anymore.

Darwin Finches. There are 13 separate species of finches DNA shows they all originated form a single female

there are 110 species of lemurs on Madagascar all descended form a single individual. the 110th species the Ganzhorn Mouse lemur only recently emerged in 2016, they are sufficiently different from their parent species the Gray mouse Lemur that the two species can no longer intermate.

 

[Pogo]

Where is his mother?

The one on the left is lacking the secondary sexual characteristic of facial hair, so I'm guessing a transvestite.
More seriously, you are demonstrating an abject lack of understanding of biology in even discussing this pathetic example of the strawman version of evolution from your original question, or you are JAQing (just asking questions).

 

[LuisDantas]

Goal a functional heart, a functional lung, a functional brain. --- Do you expect a heart to pump blood If it is only partially developed.

Have you never worked on a project? In the beginning a project is nowhere near completed.

Please. Don't embarass yourself further.

Learn some of the basics of evolution before procceeding

 

[YoursTrue]

Modern terrestrial rocks were formed, either from molten magma or from erosion or metamorphism of older rocks, hundreds or thousands of millions of years after the Earth's accretion. How the Earth and the other planets were formed is irrelevant to the formation of the present-day rocks of the Earth's crust.

Well now that's interesting. Researching that, I see that it is said that most of the rocks exposed at the surface of Earth are sedimentary, in other words, formed from particles of older rocks that have been broken apart by water or wind. Fossils, Rocks, and Time: Rocks and Layers.

 

[YoursTrue]

They are built on different stories collected by a different collection of humans trying to explain the unknown. Figure out why you don't believe in them and you will understand why your beliefs are not accepted without question.

Beyond that, before you present anything more you have read, put in your mind that which you see every day, offspring are not exactly like their parents and there are not unlimited resources. Using that, fit it into a larger picture instead of expecting an answer to everything from a single observation.

I know why I don't believe in any purported inspired utterances except for those in the Bible.

 

[YoursTrue]

They are built on different stories collected by a different collection of humans trying to explain the unknown. Figure out why you don't believe in them and you will understand why your beliefs are not accepted without question.

Beyond that, before you present anything more you have read, put in your mind that which you see every day, offspring are not exactly like their parents and there are not unlimited resources. Using that, fit it into a larger picture instead of expecting an answer to everything from a single observation.

I do not expect an answer for everything mainly because there are no real legitimate answers for certain questions although some scientists may try. Again, there is nothing beyond conjecture (yup, that's what it is) that maybe a couple(?) of fish evolved eventually to become humans. You may say it's not conjecture but reality proves (yes proves, demonstrates, evidences, shows...) that is a conjectural opinion.

 

[YoursTrue]

Please. Don't embarass yourself further.

Learn some of the basics of evolution before procceeding

I am not on constantly but I'm waiting to go through evolution 101 with volunteers here as guides and knowledge. Perhaps I did not get to see the start as offered yet.

 

[Valjean]

I don't just assume the universe has existed eternally in the past and will melt with fervent heat in the future and be re-created.
That is the only logical conclusion anyone can come too. As energy and mass cannot be created or destroyed.
Now any entity that can create this universe, cause it to melt with fervent heat and create it again out of that fiery soup would fit my definition of God.

What facts and premises is this 'logic' based on, that physicists have overlooked? Energy and matter can't be created or destroyed by ordinary chemical means.

You presume a conscious 'entity' created the universe, intentionally, and apparently without any physical mechanism -- ie: by magic.
This is based not on any actual evidence, but on a traditional book of ancient folklore -- one of many diverse narratives -- which, again, claims an agent but posits no mechanism and offers no supporting evidence.

No evidence of such an agent or of any magical creation has ever been observed. The world seems to work by ordinary, unconscious, chemistry or physics. Yet you judge an invisible magician the most likely source of the universe, and magic the most likely mechanism.
Do you see why some of us are skeptical of all this?

Now, if you can figure out a way to create energy and mass I will have to reconsider my position.

Mass and energy get created and destroyed, or more generally converted one to the other, all the time, and not just in stars. Human generated nuclear energy is pretty common.

So, I don't care what existed at T=0 If that entity supplied all the energy and mass that exists in this universe it would be God.

What's "that entity"? Who said anything about an entity?

So, I will accept as fact He created the Heavens and the earth as He tells me in a note He left for me to read and study.

Again, you're presuming God as axiomatic, and dismissing known, observable mechanisms as implausible. Me, I'm still waiting for some objective evidence.

 

[John53]

I am not on constantly but I'm waiting to go through evolution 101 with volunteers here as guides and knowledge. Perhaps I did not get to see the start as offered yet.

I offered, told you my terms, you declined in the first post by not agreeing to my terms.

And it seems you just want to ask questions and not have a discussion.

 

[LuisDantas]

I am not on constantly but I'm waiting to go through evolution 101 with volunteers here as guides and knowledge. Perhaps I did not get to see the start as offered yet.

I would recommend something more didatic.

I think it was Quagmire who once recommended edx courses. This may be of use.

Syllabus | ANTH207x | edX

courses.edx.org

 

[John53]

I would recommend something more didatic.

I think it was Quagmire who once recommended edx courses. This may be of use.

Syllabus | ANTH207x | edX

courses.edx.org

(Quickly googles didatic) I agree.

 

[Valjean]

Yes.

Can you show me one instance, other than a mule. But that mule cannot reproduce anything.
She can produce a lot of work.

Enjoy,

Yes.
But the animals and fowl will produce offspring of like kind
Show me one critter that produced a totally different critter.

Enjoy,

Show me one language that produced a different language.

 

[Valjean]

Siberian foxes have spit into a feral and domesticated line there is some question if the domesticated Siberian foxes are even foxes anymore.

Darwin Finches. There are 13 separate species of finches DNA shows they all originated form a single female

there are 110 species of lemurs on Madagascar all descended form a single individual. the 110th species the Ganzhorn Mouse lemur only recently emerged in 2016, they are sufficiently different from their parent species the Gray mouse Lemur that the two species can no longer intermate.

More examples of observed speciation:

Some More Observed Speciation Events

Observed Instances of Speciation

Chimps don't give birth to humans. Wolves don't give birth to poodles. Latin speakers didn't give birth to French speakers.
The changes are s-l-o-w; small changes over multiple generations, eventually accumulating into an organism quite different from the original.