On Evolution & Creation

[John53]

I hurd you the first time, I still want to learn about the subject, Maybe someone else has a video.

I did a youtube search and found dozens but I'm not qualified to make a recommendation. If you wish to discuss evolution let me know.

 

[YoursTrue]

The purpose of life is to continue, to make more life. Anything beyond that is up to the individual.

So would you say that the purpose you mention was from the very beginning, meaning a couple of cells had a "purpose" before they were replicated or after they were replicated? Was it something conscious within these cells? If those initial cells had a "purpose" to replicate, would you say they also had a "cause" for that purpose if you understand the question. Cause...purpose...any idea how that happened, according to you and what you learn from science?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I did a youtube search and found dozens but I'm not qualified to make a recommendation. If you wish to discuss evolution let me know.

I have watched some and almost all of them will honestly admit that not all problems have been solved yet. And the details of it are beyond me. It is incredibly silly for a person that is totally scientifically illiterate to demand to see such videos. He could not tell if he was being lied to or if they were 100% right. In the sciences scientists are not idiots. They solved the easy problems first. Evolution is far easier than abiogenesis.

It seriously looks as if he is only looking for an excuse to deny reality.

 

[blü 2]

I am not sure if evolutionary theory now has it that everything (in the universe) had a beginning.

The field of enquiry relevant to evolution is limited to evolution.

The study of how chemistry became biochemistry is called abiogenesis, and in effect works both backwards from our best understanding of primitive life forms, and forwards from chemistry. (The study of the origins of the universe is a part of cosmology.) Abiogenesis is a work in progress, but it may be we'll live long enough to see at least one pathway demonstrated. As a footnote, it'll be interesting to see what AI might add to that research.

As far as mutations go, someone brought up about the residents of Nepal. I had read that article earlier and found it interesting that their lung capacity (if I remember correctly) changed). Would you say that means scientifically this population is possibly evolving into another species of humankind?

I'd say, no more than dark skin / light skin, or other adaptations in groups of humans in particular environments. None of them is a different species ─ they're all examples of H sap.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So humans are described as a eukaryote even though we are composed of gazillions of eukaryotic cells, is that right?

Humans are described as eukaryotes because we are composed of eukaryotic cells.
Not "even though" or "despite". But "BECAUSE".

I can understand that better than saying we are FISH, but anyway -- hope you have a swimmingly good day today.

Fish are also eukaryotes.
So are trees, cats, dolphins, dinosaurs, etc.
All of them are composed of eukaryote cells

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I Believe in evolution. I am a farm boy and was able to create some mighty fine animals on the farm. Hogs that weighed over 800 lbs. that was as durable as a wild hog in the woods. Chickens that laid nothing but double yoke eggs. Bulls that weighed over 2,000 lbs. Crops that produced twice the yield of normal crops. All of these were produced by using science.

"by using science". Unless you mean genetic manipulation, they were produced by artificial selection.

But just to leave them alone and in a few years, they would be returning to what they were before.

Perhaps that has something to do with changing selection pressures...... Removing the artificial selection pressures, the normal natural selection pressures take over.

You can spout all the things you can get from a classroom and books about what other people believe and expound upon but until you give me a life form to begin with to evolve you are just telling me a fairy tale that you have faith in.

You make no sense. Evolution, by your own acknowledgement above it seems, factually occurs. Regardless of how "first life" came to be.
Life clearly exists. It factually evolves.
No matter how it came about.

Even if some god conjured up life or pulled it out of a hat while saying abracadabra. Evolution still factually occurred and continues to occur.
No matter how life came to be, the facts are the facts. Explaining first life won't change anything about the fossil record, comparative anatomy, comparative genomics, phylogenies,.... All those facts will still be there. And they will all continue to scream evolution occurred.

The same goes for the BBT If you can not tell me where the hot, very dense thingmabob that expanded into the universe and all the energy required to build the universe out of came from you are just repeating a myth, that you bought into.

Again false.
The universe is factually expanding. The big bang theory factually makes incredibly accurate predictions. Regardless of where it originally came from or originated.
It still expanded and continues to expand.

Once again, answering the question of origins won't make the facts go away.

So welcome to the club of faith, even though, we believe in and have faith in different things.

Wrong. None of this is based on faith.
It's based on facts.

Regardless of life began, humans and chimps sharing ancestors = genetic fact.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If the designer started with two, a male and a female

Demonstrably not the case.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What you are doing is deliberately distorting and misrepresenting. That you cannot understand that God always was, always is, and will always be is understandable because it does not reach you right now. But have a good day as long as there are days...

I love how you first accusing him of "distorting and misrepresenting" only to follow it up in the next breath with the exact special pleading argument he predicted.

Priceless.

 

[John53]

I have watched some and almost all of them will honestly admit that not all problems have been solved yet. And the details of it are beyond me. It is incredibly silly for a person that is totally scientifically illiterate to demand to see such videos. He could not tell if he was being lied to or if they were 100% right. In the sciences scientists are not idiots. They solved the easy problems first. Evolution is far easier than abiogenesis.

That's why I didn't recommend one, I wouldn't have a clue if they're reliable.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Life, as far as I am concerned, has a purpose. You do not believe that, I suppose. Mutations, it is now said here, have no purpose...they are random and can be deleterious, but now I see some here are saying these mutations are said to be CAUSED by ??? something,..and oh, well, have a good evening.

When you don't even understand the role of mutations in context of the theory of evolution, you really shouldn't be screaming from the rooftops that you have even only a semi-decent grasp of what the theory entails, how it works,... etc.

This is evolution 101.

As always, we have to inform you that you do not have a clue yet like to pretend otherwise.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In other words, you don't know or can't say whether there is a video explaining the evolution of -- the eyeball -- ok, as the saying goes -- no problem.

Youtube is filled with them. The internet has countless articles of exactly this.
A child could find them.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Hello, Do you have a video I can watch that explains how non-life chemicals became first life?

And a video on how unicellular organisms become complex organisms?

I'm not feeling well and was only up due to my illness.

No. I have no videos. Anything for abiogenesis, if they exist, would only be on hypotheses. The scientific origin for life is not known and may never be known. That doesn't make it wrong to research it or that any default belief is elevated to the answer with no basis. Either all belief would rise to the occasion or none would.

As to the evolution of multi-cellularity, videos may exist for that, but I don't know of any titles. I don't get my information from videos that much or at all. Mine has come from years of study, work, research and the works of other scientists.

I'm a little muddled in the head right now, but if you want to use video to launch into understanding of the science, try to focus on legitimate sources for the videos. In thinking on this, I would bet there are a lot of rinky dink material out there from non-science nonsense sites.

You have an expert on evolution right in your midst. One of your own group has dozens and dozens of times declared they know the subject so well they can reject it without further bother. See about finding the information they have. I'm sure after having asked to have it explained countless times over several years, they must have picked up something useful.

Good luck.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Youtube is filled with them. The internet has countless articles of exactly this.
A child could find them.

Let me try. How are these search terms "how to show that eye evolution is impossible"? Weird. I can't find any that explain it when I search that way.

 

[walt]

I'm not feeling well and was only up due to my illness.

No. I have no videos. Anything for abiogenesis, if they exist, would only be on hypotheses. The scientific origin for life is not known and may never be known. That doesn't make it wrong to research it or that any default belief is elevated to the answer with no basis. Either all belief would rise to the occasion or none would.

As to the evolution of multi-cellularity, videos may exist for that, but I don't know of any titles. I don't get my information from videos that much or at all. Mine has come from years of study, work, research and the works of other scientists.

I'm a little muddled in the head right now, but if you want to use video to launch into understanding of the science, try to focus on legitimate sources for the videos. In thinking on this, I would bet there are a lot of rinky dink material out there from non-science nonsense sites.

You have an expert on evolution right in your midst. One of your own group has dozens and dozens of times declared they know the subject so well they can reject it without further bother. See about finding the information they have. I'm sure after having asked to have it explained countless times over several years, they must have picked up something useful.

Good luck.

Hope you feel better soon Thank You for the information, thanks for talking to me with respect in all our conversations.

 

[Pogo]

Hope you feel better soon Thank You for the information, thanks for talking to me with respect in all our conversations.

Just a note since you might be online.
You need to learn the difference between abiogenesis and evolution.
Evolution is the change in living things over time and is well studied and understood, I will look to see if there are any good videos besides Aron Ra's that deal with it beyond basics or little tiny bits of a larger understanding.
Abiogenesis is the study of how the first life forms came to be which since there is life on earth and there wasn't before is a legitimate area of study.
That said, it is very much at the cutting edge of human knowledge. It is basically very high level chemistry and to even understand the basics to any degree really requires at least several years of University level organic chemistry. There is nobody here with the appropriate background to discuss the relevant research and it is even more out of the realm of questioning for those of us with even less background. Just leave it alone for now and accept that it is an I don't know question for your and our level, It might be a god or it might be a process that a god made possible, but those mechanical chemists even such as James Tour with 40 years of his speciality is really out of his realm in determining whether it is possible or how it works.

Evolution on the other hand is something that everyone can understand the basics of and should have learned in HS since it has a 150 year history of improvement of the theory without being called in question. I am going to recomend again going to the Berkeley Evo 101 and working through it and asking us questions about that. Videos are a very poor presentation medium for this basic learning process since you don't have time to absorb the information presented and even if you link one, then we have to figure out just which one of the concepts is in question.
It will get a lot better and easier when you have a basic background in the theory and evidence and then you can come back and discuss individual points without people just saying, you have missed the big picture.

just checked your age, we are the same age, I also never took any formal biology courses unless you count 9th grade earth science, everything I have learned since then I have learned by reading and talking to others to the point that I have spent hours discussing biological pathways with actual Phd biologists when I made observations and conclusions that were in their balliwick, The big thing here is you getting a very basic understanding of evolution before you go asking questions that are the equivalent of how exactly does a nuclear reactor work to the level that you can design one.

Videos are a nice invention and I use them all the time when I am trying to diagnose my friend's BMW brakes using my knowledge of Subaru brakes, but without the mechanical understanding of brake systems in the first place, the video would mean as little to me as it did to my friend who called me up asking the question in the first place.

for starters maybe explain to us what Descent with Modification means to you and how modified descendants might fare in their environment?

 

[walt]

Just a note since you might be online.
You need to learn the difference between abiogenesis and evolution.
Evolution is the change in living things over time and is well studied and understood, I will look to see if there are any good videos besides Aron Ra's that deal with it beyond basics or little tiny bits of a larger understanding.
Abiogenesis is the study of how the first life forms came to be which since there is life on earth and there wasn't before is a legitimate area of study.
That said, it is very much at the cutting edge of human knowledge. It is basically very high level chemistry and to even understand the basics to any degree really requires at least several years of University level organic chemistry. There is nobody here with the appropriate background to discuss the relevant research and it is even more out of the realm of questioning for those of us with even less background. Just leave it alone for now and accept that it is an I don't know question for your and our level, It might be a god or it might be a process that a god made possible, but those mechanical chemists even such as James Tour with 40 years of his speciality is really out of his realm in determining whether it is possible or how it works.

Evolution on the other hand is something that everyone can understand the basics of and should have learned in HS since it has a 150 year history of improvement of the theory without being called in question. I am going to recomend again going to the Berkeley Evo 101 and working through it and asking us questions about that. Videos are a very poor presentation medium for this basic learning process since you don't have time to absorb the information presented and even if you link one, then we have to figure out just which one of the concepts is in question.
It will get a lot better and easier when you have a basic background in the theory and evidence and then you can come back and discuss individual points without people just saying, you have missed the big picture.

just checked your age, we are the same age, I also never took any formal biology courses unless you count 9th grade earth science, everything I have learned since then I have learned by reading and talking to others to the point that I have spent hours discussing biological pathways with actual Phd biologists when I made observations and conclusions that were in their balliwick, The big thing here is you getting a very basic understanding of evolution before you go asking questions that are the equivalent of how exactly does a nuclear reactor work to the level that you can design one.

Videos are a nice invention and I use them all the time when I am trying to diagnose my friend's BMW brakes using my knowledge of Subaru brakes, but without the mechanical understanding of brake systems in the first place, the video would mean as little to me as it did to my friend who called me up asking the question in the first place.

for starters maybe explain to us what Descent with Modification means to you and how modified descendants might fare in their environment?

thx, I already knew Evolution is the change in living things over time, and not non-life becoming life.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hope you feel better soon Thank You for the information, thanks for talking to me with respect in all our conversations.

That respect may be short lived. I am still willing to go over the basics of science with you. If you do so and honestly try to learn I can guarantee that you will be a better debater.

 

[Valjean]

No.

What I am saying is that I have faith that God does exist and created the universe and supplied all the energy needed to produce the universe. He formed the first man from the ground as well as all animals and fowl and gave them life.

I have the record of the history of the light period in which God Created most things but not all things. Moses spent 40 days and nights on Mt. Sinai. Moses went up the mountain a total of 8 times and God told him the things He wanted us to know about creation and the things that transpired. He told Moses many other things and to write all of it down in books for the people to live by and study daily.

I have read that History Book and it tells me many things.
It tells me why I am here, and how I got here.
It explains how all the many wonderful sights got here.
It explains to me why I am eternal in existence.
It tells me of numerous things that science has proved to be true.
None of the writers of the Bible got paid for writing.
So I think I will put more trust in what an unpaid writer wrote.

Than those who got paid for their writing as they had a personal interest in writing.

Then when I add all my personal experiences I have had with God, my Father for the past 75 years I will put my FAITH in Him.

But you are welcome to put your faith in whatever you believe.

Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
So you just do what seems right to you and I will do the same.

You know everybody has an opinion and you are welcome to mine.

Enjoy,

Not all opinions are equal. Confidence levels depend on epistemic methodology.

 

[Valjean]

thx, I already knew Evolution is the change in living things over time, and not non-life becoming life.

AND non-life becoming life?

 

[walt]

That respect may be short lived. I am still willing to go over the basics of science with you. If you do so and honestly try to learn I can guarantee that you will be a better debater.

• I have watched videos from all kinds of scientists, James Tour, Michael Behe and Dr. Marco Fasoli
• I watch videos where scientists expose the lies of James Tour and Michael Behe., Dave Farina is a science communicator with a goal of explaining science to the world. He received a BA in chemistry from Carleton College in 2005 He is a Evolutionist speaking against intelligent design information.
• This helps me make a more informed decision, when I listen to all the scientists that talk about the subject I am trying to understand.

Thank you for your words and information, I am just trying to get the knowledge from every scientist I can find that has a video.