On having voices in your head.

[apophenia]

Connecting with other personalities is not an error or mistake. Nothing is going "wrong". The brain is simply a receiver, like a biological television set. And I did not say that personalities are spirits, I said they are personalities.

How does a brain generate a language the person never learned?

How does a brain generate knowledge a person never learned?

If you want to live inside the smallest box possible that is your choice but it has nothing to do with the real universe.

My response was to this -

The voices are personalities. People who have died and moved on.

You state that as if it is true in every case of a person who hears voices in their head - in other words, you are not even bothering to consider the possibility that there may be multiple kinds of phenomena involving voices in the mind, or that any of them may be entirely fabricated by the brain of the person hearing them. This indicates that you have completely closed your mind to any possibilities other than your 'one-size-fits-all' theory.

Apart from there being no possibility of proving your assertions, having a 'one-size-fits-all' theory of these psychological phenomena indicates that it is you who has fashioned a 'box' to live in.

 

[Super Universe]

My response was to this -



You state that as if it is true in every case of a person who hears voices in their head - in other words, you are not even bothering to consider the possibility that there may be multiple kinds of phenomena involving voices in the mind, or that any of them may be entirely fabricated by the brain of the person hearing them. This indicates that you have completely closed your mind to any possibilities other than your 'one-size-fits-all' theory.

Apart from there being no possibility of proving your assertions, having a 'one-size-fits-all' theory of these psychological phenomena indicates that it is you who has fashioned a 'box' to live in.

Why would I consider something possible that I know is not possible? You think all humans have the exact same level of knowledge, this is incorrect.

I don't consider the possibility that the human brain fabricates new personalities because I know it is beyond the brain's ability just as it is beyond the ability of a television set to form a movie. But you can believe whatever you wish to believe.

Always having an open mind about everything is fine if that's what you want to believe, nothing is ever settled to you then, it's all just "theory".

You didn't answer the question about how the brain's mistaken wiring somehow can fabricate a completely different language that the person never learned? Is it because we can't ever know anything for real. It's all just a "guess" based on probability?

The box that I live in is the size of the universe. The one you live in is the size of your scientists current level of understanding.

 

[apophenia]

Not at all. You have simply decided that your ideas are beyond question. That is the smallest box of all.

 

[YmirGF]

The box that I live in is the size of the universe. The one you live in is the size of your scientists current level of understanding.

:biglaugh:
Pssst... there is no box....

 

[Koldo]

I don't consider the possibility that the human brain fabricates new personalities because I know it is beyond the brain's ability just as it is beyond the ability of a television set to form a movie. But you can believe whatever you wish to believe.

How do you know it is the beyond the brain's ability?

 

[Super Universe]

How do you know it is the beyond the brain's ability?

How do you know it's beyond a television sets ability to script, produce, and televise a movie?

It's possible that the TV is making the shows on it's own.

 

[apophenia]

How do you know it's beyond a television sets ability to script, produce, and televise a movie?

It's possible that the TV is making the shows on it's own.

The difference here is that we do know how TV shows are made, who makes them, how they are transmitted, and how they are received. We don't need aliens or books attributed to aliens or any cosmological theories to understand any of that.

Your idea that the brain can act as a receiver may have some merit, but to make the leap from there to the assumption that any and all 'voices in the head' are disembodied personalities being received like a TV broadcast is mere speculation.

If you have any testable evidence to back up your theory, present it.

 

[Koldo]

How do you know it's beyond a television sets ability to script, produce, and televise a movie?

It's possible that the TV is making the shows on it's own.

Because we created them. We can easily determine how each piece works.

 

[Super Universe]

The difference here is that we do know how TV shows are made, who makes them, how they are transmitted, and how they are received. We don't need aliens or books attributed to aliens or any cosmological theories to understand any of that.

Your idea that the brain can act as a receiver may have some merit, but to make the leap from there to the assumption that any and all 'voices in the head' are disembodied personalities being received like a TV broadcast is mere speculation.

If you have any testable evidence to back up your theory, present it.

What drives all new science? Speculation. Wow, imagine that. You're against the thing you count on the most.

You want me to provide you with testable evidence? How about doing your own research. Did you even read the OP?

 

[Super Universe]

Because we created them. We can easily determine how each piece works.

But we didn't create the universe or the human brain.

Even an uneducated housewife with no electrical engineering experience whatsoever knows that a television set does not "create" the tv shows itself. It just takes a signal and forms a picture and sound from it.

Why does an uneducated person know how a complicated electrical device works? Because she knows how the system works, Hollywood, actors, she's experienced interference with the tv signal before, and channels going out.

This is what humans have to do, you have to learn more about the universal system before you can figure out how the brain really works.

 

[apophenia]

This is what humans have to do, you have to learn more about the universal system before you can figure out how the brain really works.

Tell us where you get your ideas about the 'universal system'.

The Urantia Book ? Is that where we will learn more about the universal system ?

 

[Super Universe]

Tell us where you get your ideas about the 'universal system'.

The Urantia Book ? Is that where we will learn more about the universal system ?

The Urantia Book was written in the 1950's. Compared to the Old and New Testament's it's vastly more updated information but even it is outdated when compared to what is available today.

To know what I know you would have to have every experience I've ever had and you would have to read everything I've ever read.

I could provide you with some things to get you going but, honestly, what would be the point? You only want points to argue. It's like learning Catholicism just so you can know their faults.

 

[apophenia]

The Urantia Book was written in the 1950's. Compared to the Old and New Testament's it's vastly more updated information but even it is outdated when compared to what is available today.

To know what I know you would have to have every experience I've ever had and you would have to read everything I've ever read.

I could provide you with some things to get you going but, honestly, what would be the point? You only want points to argue. It's like learning Catholicism just so you can know their faults.

In other words you read a book which makes extraordinary claims, and you have chosen to believe it.

btw ... I spent decades educating myself both theoretically and practically in various paths of self-knowledge, and secular knowledge of various kinds. Along the way I learned to differentiate between the kinds of knowledge which can be gained by personal experience, by science, and by believing stuff you read. The latter is not knowledge at all, although I have enjoyed Speculative Fiction over the years.

Your assertion that I 'only want points to argue' is incorrect. In fact, from observation, you only want to claim extraordinary knowledge and deride anyone who doubts you, as being uneducated and closed-minded, but you have nothing to say when asked to back up your claims, except spurious metaphors and ad hominems in roughly equal proportion.

 

[Super Universe]

In other words you read a book which makes extraordinary claims, and you have chosen to believe it.

btw ... I spent decades educating myself both theoretically and practically in various paths of self-knowledge, and secular knowledge of various kinds. Along the way I learned to differentiate between the kinds of knowledge which can be gained by personal experience, by science, and by believing stuff you read. The latter is not knowledge at all, although I have enjoyed Speculative Fiction over the years.

Your assertion that I 'only want points to argue' is incorrect. In fact, from observation, you only want to claim extraordinary knowledge and deride anyone who doubts you, as being uneducated and closed-minded, but you have nothing to say when asked to back up your claims, except spurious metaphors and ad hominems in roughly equal proportion.

You think I read "a" book? I've read hundreds of books and, maybe, thousands of articles in my lifetime.

You've learned to differentiate between knowledge gained by experience, science, and believing in stuff you read? Wow, you say this as if you're different than the rest of us humans.

I claimed no extraordinary knowledge, I'm sorry you don't know everything I know but that's not really my fault. I did not post to challenge your beliefs. I posted a response to Adrian's post.

If you really want to understand more about how God and the universe work then begin with the Urantia Book, move on to Wingmakers, Lyricus, Event Temples, and the Soul Connection Network.

Those should keep you busy for about a year.

 

[apophenia]

If you really want to understand more about how God and the universe work then begin with the Urantia Book, move on to Wingmakers, Lyricus, Event Temples, and the Soul Connection Network.

Those should keep you busy for about a year.

Parasitosis keeps people 'busy' too. Busy don't mean much.

From the Lyricus website -

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ultimately, the Lyricus.org website will be a central repository for the key knowledge required to discover the Grand Portal – the irrefutable scientific discovery of the human soul."

Irrefutable scientific discovery of the soul !

And we only need wait until the last quarter of this century for the truth to be revealed !

[/FONT]

The Grand Portal is the prime achievement that awaits humanity in the last quarter of the 21st century. It will usher in a new awareness that will enable the human family to shift from a survival-based, mind-body energy system, to an exploratory-based, mind-soul energy system. This exploratory energy system will manifest the belief system of the Sovereign Integral — and usher in the Golden Age long prophesied.

So being busy for all that time has taught you that something will be revealed sometime around 80 years from now. Gee Whiz !!

How much has this 'education' cost you so far ?

 

[Super Universe]

Parasitosis keeps people 'busy' too. Busy don't mean much.

From the Lyricus website -

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ultimately, the Lyricus.org website will be a central repository for the key knowledge required to discover the Grand Portal – the irrefutable scientific discovery of the human soul."[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Irrefutable scientific discovery of the soul ! [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And we only need wait until the last quarter of this century for the truth to be revealed ![/FONT]


So being busy for all that time has taught you that something will be revealed sometime around 80 years from now. Gee Whiz !!

How much has this 'education' cost you so far ?

Right, just as I said, you only wanted to find something to criticize.

 

[apophenia]

Right, just as I said, you only wanted to find something to criticize.

Actually, no. My response to you in this thread was motivated by a concern about advice and ideas which can be very unhelpful to people with tendencies toward psychosis.

Telling a person who is experiencing delusional states that the voices in their head are disembodied beings who have taken up residence in their body is not very helpful, and neither is adding to that a cosmology which is arbitrary, fictional and most probably motivated by book and CD sales to the credulous. I looked at the sites where you gain your information. It is clear to me that these sites are peddling psychobabble. There are many variations of this kind of visionary cosmic psychobabble, and the material you are referring to is IMO a well organised scam. It is all about selling unprovable revelations to the starry-eyed.

We have seen so many predictions of the dawning of a Golden Age, Aquarius, The Second Coming, The Apocalypse etc etc. There is always a market for it. You must have noticed that all the sure-fire revelations centered around the year 2000 have come and gone. No Golden Age. No Aquarius. No Second Coming.

What should sound the alarm for you here is that it is claimed that this "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Irrefutable scientific discovery of the soul" is going to be revealed after you are dead !

:slap:
[/FONT]

 

[Super Universe]

Actually, no. My response to you in this thread was motivated by a concern about advice and ideas which can be very unhelpful to people with tendencies toward psychosis.

Telling a person who is experiencing delusional states that the voices in their head are disembodied beings who have taken up residence in their body is not very helpful, and neither is adding to that a cosmology which is arbitrary, fictional and most probably motivated by book and CD sales to the credulous. I looked at the sites where you gain your information. It is clear to me that these sites are peddling psychobabble. There are many variations of this kind of visionary cosmic psychobabble, and the material you are referring to is IMO a well organised scam. It is all about selling unprovable revelations to the starry-eyed.

We have seen so many predictions of the dawning of a Golden Age, Aquarius, The Second Coming, The Apocalypse etc etc. There is always a market for it. You must have noticed that all the sure-fire revelations centered around the year 2000 have come and gone. No Golden Age. No Aquarius. No Second Coming.

What should sound the alarm for you here is that it is claimed that this "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Irrefutable scientific discovery of the soul" is going to be revealed after you are dead ![/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]:slap:[/FONT]

You're completely off with your supposed self "educated" assessment. If you had read the initial post you would have learned something which is this, the people who have these problems KNOW the other personalities are there it's just that they are told by doctors it's their own brain, they're told they are the problem when they are exactly as they should be. They just have to learn to deal with it, often times by negotiating and trading time with the other personalities.

You looked at the sites where I gain my information? There are thousands of pages of information, how much information could you have "looked" at? You didn't look at anything, you did exactly what I said you would do, you found one thing to criticize and then ran back to RF.

It's all psychobabble? I will look at your proof that it is psychobabble, oh wait, you don't have any, do you?

 

[apophenia]

If you had read the initial post you would have learned something which is this, the people who have these problems KNOW the other personalities are there it's just that they are told by doctors

Oh, right, of course, these people KNOW that the voices in their heads are actual disembodied souls. Duh. The really dumb thing about that is that you are assuming that ALL cases of 'voices in the head' are actual cases of disembodied spirits, and that NONE of them may be phenomena within a persons brain. That is gobsmacking folly.


Read this -

Originally Posted by apophenia
Our brains create an identity, the 'illusion' which is the main subject matter of the dharmic religions/philosophies. You are telling us that your brain creates more than one identity. That's fine, some people have six fingers. The neural networks in your brain work in an atypical fashion. You have the illusion of a group whereas most of us have the illusion of a consistent individual, even though our personalities are in fact context dependent to a large degree.

Originally Posted by atropine
As good of an explanation as any!

Seems you have no idea about what the person who started this thread actually thinks. Atropine has an experience which is 'as if real'. He gets that. You don't.

You looked at the sites where I gain my information? There are thousands of pages of information, how much information could you have "looked" at? You didn't look at anything, you did exactly what I said you would do, you found one thing to criticize and then ran back to RF.

Scientific proof ( irrefutable ! ) of the existence of the soul will be provided after we are all dead. How convenient ! The 'aliens' for some reason have to wait until anyone who may be interested in this 'proof' is already dead. That truly is laughable.

You are asking me for proof that something totally speculative does not exist !

So far you have never provided even one shred of evidence that these fantasies have any basis whatsoever. The onus of proof is on those making the claims.

So what proof do you have that any of these ideas of advanced aliens, or their promised revelation which will happen after you die, are real ?

You will not answer that, because you can't. There is not a shred of objective evidence, or you would have supplied it long ago. And those who are selling you the Wingmaker etc merchandise have just written a clause which says - "proof WILL be provided - after you are dead". You must want to believe real bad.

It's all psychobabble? I will look at your proof that it is psychobabble, oh wait, you don't have any, do you?

I don't have 'proof' that there isn't a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Oh my God ! That means there REALLY IS a Flying Spaghetti Monster !

 

[Super Universe]

Oh, right, of course, these people KNOW that the voices in their heads are actual disembodied souls. Duh. The really dumb thing about that is that you are assuming that ALL cases of 'voices in the head' are actual cases of disembodied spirits, and that NONE of them may be phenomena within a persons brain. That is gobsmacking folly.


Read this -

Seems you have no idea about what the person who started this thread actually thinks. Atropine has an experience which is 'as if real'. He gets that. You don't.

Scientific proof ( irrefutable ! ) of the existence of the soul will be provided after we are all dead. How convenient ! The 'aliens' for some reason have to wait until anyone who may be interested in this 'proof' is already dead. That truly is laughable.

You are asking me for proof that something totally speculative does not exist !

So far you have never provided even one shred of evidence that these fantasies have any basis whatsoever. The onus of proof is on those making the claims.

So what proof do you have that any of these ideas of advanced aliens, or their promised revelation which will happen after you die, are real ?

You will not answer that, because you can't. There is not a shred of objective evidence, or you would have supplied it long ago. And those who are selling you the Wingmaker etc merchandise have just written a clause which says - "proof WILL be provided - after you are dead". You must want to believe real bad.

I don't have 'proof' that there isn't a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Oh my God ! That means there REALLY IS a Flying Spaghetti Monster !

Atropine KNOWS the voices are people. You're the one who doesn't know. The brain does not create identity, it projects it. It's a biological television set, that's all.

Personalities are not context dependent, reactions are. The personality does not change just because the person is in fear or happy or whatever, the reaction to an event is dependent on the event.

Proof of the soul won't be provided after we are all dead, humans will discover it. You misunderstood, sigh, again... You only read one page of thousands and you still misunderstood. Anyway, the universe isn't about to hurry anything up to please you.

The onus of proof is on those making claims? You've just made a claim, now prove it.

What proof do I have about advanced aliens? Who said anything about aliens? You completely misunderstood what you read. Seems to be a theme with you.