"On this Rock I will build my church"

[Kemosloby]

After Simon said to Jesus "You are the Son of God", Jesus replied "thou art Peter (meaning stone), on this rock I will build my church". What did he mean? This could be taken two or three ways. Did Jesus mean he would build his church on the solid truth, a rock of truth "thou art the Son of God", Did he mean he would he build his church on Peter, or did he mean both?

Which brings up a related question. Why wouldn't Jesus call himself the Son of God?

I have heard the Vatican says it means Christ would build his church on Peter and justifies "Apostolic successsion". Somehow even protestant churches are saying the same. (did the Vatican secretly subvert the Protestant churches?)
The bible says you are all equal and one is your Father, (teacher, rabbi, head), Christ who is in heaven. And in many places calls Jesus "the rock". and not to add to or take away from scripture.

Could it mean both? Jesus is the big ROCK, the spiritual Father, and Peter is the little rock, head of the mundane, material or earthly side. If that was so wouldn't Jesus have said "on these rocks I will build my church"?

 

[Scuba Pete]

The Greek uses different variants of the word "rock". He claims Peter is a pebble (diminutive of rock), but upon this rock (not a diminutive) he will build his church.

There could be a number of reasons why he made this statement. I don't believe that it was to establish Apostolic Succession or even to provide a legalistic anchor to describe the church. Peter had to be broken. Even with him denying Jesus, he had to be broken further. That was the whole point of the "Feed my sheep" interchange after the resurrection. Peter had to see Jesus as God. FWIW, the English translations in that exchange don't do it justice either.

 

[Kemosloby]

The Greek uses different variants of the word "rock". He claims Peter is a pebble (diminutive of rock), but upon this rock (not a diminutive) he will build his church.

There could be a number of reasons why he made this statement. I don't believe that it was to establish Apostolic Succession or even to provide a legalistic anchor to describe the church. Peter had to be broken. Even with him denying Jesus, he had to be broken further. That was the whole point of the "Feed my sheep" interchange after the resurrection. Peter had to see Jesus as God. FWIW, the English translations in that exchange don't do it justice either.

Simon was Peter, Jesus gave him a new name after Simon said "thou art the Son of God" and Simons new name was Peter.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Jesus was indeed the master of sarcasm.

 

[Kemosloby]

Jesus was indeed the master of sarcasm.

or perhaps ambiguity. He seems to always leave two ways to take something.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

The name Peter - best described as "bedrock" - FOUNDATION upon which all else is built

So Yeshua meets a man named SIMON - and before anything else He says to all present "Iam going to RE name you - PETER (the foundation)"....Let it sink in, bare with it a moment... Now, this may seem confusing at first - and we wont be given an explanation for quite some time - and as ususal - the exlpanation is for THOSE WITH EARS TO HEAR

Some years later my mate is "preaching" as you call it - Hes actually just speaking to people as he travels around, they flock to Him BECAUSE He IS truth, but He is not "proslatysing" for a "new religion" lol - just speaking openly and candidly about His truth - and it is obvious the PEOPLE need an explanation - especially His own disciples which are beginning to get confused (see Matthew prior to this next quote for details) - so He stops and asks them the following - a kind of TEST for them to see IF they understand Who He REALLY is :

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

So they are CONFUSED begin to misuderstand - so He decides to tell them candidly and openly His truth... They say to Him that He is obviously linked to their OLD GOD and that OLD PROPHETS have spoken of HIM Christ... He says though, TRY AGAIN - who do YOU say that Iam - and so Peter answers says "well I think you ARE the CHRIST" - and look here is the explanation for a name change - see Christ replies - "YES IAM CHRIST - and it was NOT THE PROPHETS of that old god that revealed this truth to you - but - it was MY FATHER DIRECTLY - and it is upon THIS - DIRECT REVELATION OF TRUTH that I shall make the FOUNDATION and such LIVING TRUTH DIRECTLY REVEALED can NOT EVER BE DESTROYED"...

Simon became PETER the foundation - explained when Simon revealed the truth of Christ DIRECTLY and NOT spouted "parrot fashion" learned from the "old religious truth" spoken by all those "old dead prophets" but from the DIRECTLY REVEALED LIVING TRUTH - Christ says He changes the name Simon TO Peter to reflect this FOUNDATION to ALL LEGITIMATE SPIRITUAL TRUTH - it IS REVEALED DIRECTLY and is NEVER learned from "man religion or words from a book"...The foundation IS the DIRECT COMMUNION mortal and Divine - my FATHER revealed the truth to Simon DIRECTLY - Christ changed the name to SYMBOLISE and REFLECT this NEW Self realisation.. He is telling them blatantly to DISREGARD THE RELIGIOUS TEACHING and to rely instead upon that which is revealed DIRECTLY by spirit and is it upon THIS directly revealed truth that the new "church" and tradition shall be formed..

Once again we see very clearly - my mate Christ has NO AFFILIATION to the old Hebrew religion OR its so called "god as that one is NOT Our Father - here He is telling disciples to DISREGARD the "old prophets" and instead use their LIVING TRUTH as the only guidance needed..My Father will reveal His truth DIRECTLY He says and it is this personal direct communion that is the foundation of all else...GNOSIS is always the key - for those with ears to hear..

 

[Scuba Pete]

Calling Simon "The Rock" is like calling the biggest guy in the room "Tiny"

Think about this: Simon BarJonah. BarJonah means Son of John, or Johnson. Yep, Simon became "Rock Johnson". What a name for a Rock Star. : D Still ironic as it can be.

 

[Ben Avraham]

After Simon said to Jesus "You are the Son of God", Jesus replied "thou art Peter (meaning stone), on this rock I will build my church". What did he mean? This could be taken two or three ways. Did Jesus mean he would build his church on the solid truth, a rock of truth "thou art the Son of God", Did he mean he would he build his church on Peter, or did he mean both?

Which brings up a related question. Why wouldn't Jesus call himself the Son of God?

I have heard the Vatican says it means Christ would build his church on Peter and justifies "Apostolic successsion". Somehow even protestant churches are saying the same. (did the Vatican secretly subvert the Protestant churches?)
The bible says you are all equal and one is your Father, (teacher, rabbi, head), Christ who is in heaven. And in many places calls Jesus "the rock". and not to add to or take away from scripture.

Could it mean both? Jesus is the big ROCK, the spiritual Father, and Peter is the little rock, head of the mundane, material or earthly side. If that was so wouldn't Jesus have said "on these rocks I will build my church"?

A Jew would never say to another: "You are the Son of God" unless he deserted Judaism and founded a Hellenistic church aka Christianity. (Acts 11:26) Jesus and Peter were loyal Jews. Then, Jesus, as a Jew, would not prophesy that he would build his church. Jews don't build churches but synagogues. Paul was the one in whose gospel Jesus was the son of God. (Acts 9:20) A son of God according to the Greek concept of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman if you read Mat. 1:18.

Jesus would never call himself the Son of God because he knew that he was a son of God as part of the People of Israel named by God Himself, "Israel is My Son..." (Exodus 4:22,23)

 

[Tumah]

Calling Simon "The Rock" is like calling the biggest guy in the room "Tiny"

Think about this: Simon BarJonah. BarJonah means Son of John, or Johnson. Yep, Simon became "Rock Johnson". What a name for a Rock Star. : D Still ironic as it can be.

Bar Jonah means son of Jonah, not son of John.

 

[Kemosloby]

A Jew would never say to another: "You are the Son of God" unless he deserted Judaism and founded a Hellenistic church aka Christianity. (Acts 11:26) Jesus and Peter were loyal Jews. Then, Jesus, as a Jew, would not prophesy that he would build his church. Jews don't build churches but synagogues. Paul was the one in whose gospel Jesus was the son of God. (Acts 9:20) A son of God according to the Greek concept of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman if you read Mat. 1:18.

Jesus would never call himself the Son of God because he knew that he was a son of God as part of the People of Israel named by God Himself, "Israel is My Son..." (Exodus 4:22,23)

Perhaps that is why he had Peter say it. Jesus was both "Son of God" and "Son of Man", Peter removed the ambiguity. If Peter said "You are a son of God" he would have meant you are an Israelite, a son of God. But Peter said "You are the Son of God" singular, meaning The Son of God. Yet still Jesus could have said it himself.

But if the spirit of prophecy is to reveal who the Lord is and is achieved by the Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet. Peter was reavealing who the Lord was by the Holy Spirit when he said, "You are the Son of God"

They use a lot of metaphors since Israel is not a literal "Son of God" , but like in Christianity lumps together it's people into one body.

 

[COGTHW]

After Simon said to Jesus "You are the Son of God", Jesus replied "thou art Peter (meaning stone), on this rock I will build my church". What did he mean? This could be taken two or three ways. Did Jesus mean he would build his church on the solid truth, a rock of truth "thou art the Son of God", Did he mean he would he build his church on Peter, or did he mean both?

Which brings up a related question. Why wouldn't Jesus call himself the Son of God?

I have heard the Vatican says it means Christ would build his church on Peter and justifies "Apostolic successsion". Somehow even protestant churches are saying the same. (did the Vatican secretly subvert the Protestant churches?)
The bible says you are all equal and one is your Father, (teacher, rabbi, head), Christ who is in heaven. And in many places calls Jesus "the rock". and not to add to or take away from scripture.

Could it mean both? Jesus is the big ROCK, the spiritual Father, and Peter is the little rock, head of the mundane, material or earthly side. If that was so wouldn't Jesus have said "on these rocks I will build my church"?

It means that Jesus Lord of all, gave the Apostles the Authority 'And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.' Matthew 10:1 ; Jesus is the head of the Church. ' And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.' Colossians 1:18 ; 18 'And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.' Matthew 16. the keys because the Apostles knew the mysteries of God. 10 'And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 'He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.' Matthew 13:10-11 Hallelujah Jesus.

 

[Kemosloby]

It means that Jesus Lord of all, gave the Apostles the Authority 'And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.' Matthew 10:1 ; Jesus is the head of the Church. ' And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.' Colossians 1:18 ; 18 'And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.' Matthew 16. the keys because the Apostles knew the mysteries of God. 10 'And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 'He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.' Matthew 13:10-11 Hallelujah Jesus.

I take it you're saying it meant Jesus is the Rock, the head and cornerstone, that he would build his church on. Upon this Rock, that Jesus is the "Son of God", the gates of hell won't erase, since testifying that Jesus is the Son of God is the primary point of Christianity.

 

[COGTHW]

No that Jesus is Lord our God. 10 'Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.'

11 'I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.' Isaiah 43:10-11 ; notice the Spirit was talking to Isaiah. Hallelujah Jesus. Now look at Jesus words. 23 'And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.'

24 'I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.' John 8:23-24 GLORY TO GOD.!! Jesus was God in the flesh. Christianity is garbage because it say Mary is the mother of God. Christianity is not in the bible. For God said be ye holy. 'For it is written, be ye holy ; for I am holy.' 1 Peter 1:16. True believers believe on Holiness not Christianity, that's man made they said Jesus started that. That is a lie Jesus the living God was here before the world. I know you going to ask me to prove it which I will with scriptures by the Power of God.

 

[Kemosloby]

No that Jesus is Lord our God. 10 'Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.'

11 'I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.' Isaiah 43:10-11 ; notice the Spirit was talking to Isaiah. Hallelujah Jesus. Now look at Jesus words. 23 'And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.'

24 'I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.' Jesus was God in the flesh. Christianity is garbage because it say Mary is the mother of God. Christianity is not in the bible. For God said be ye holy. 'For it is written, be ye holy ; for I am holy.' 1 Peter 1:16. True believers believe on Holiness not Christianity, that's man made they said Jesus started that. That is a lie Jesus the living God was here before the world. I know you going to ask me to prove it which I will with scriptures by the Power of God.

I think we're getting off track. Peter said "thou art the Son of God", the church is built either on that fact, Or Jesus said he would build his church on Peter. Yet I'll have to admit it's a mute point since Jesus gave the keys to Peter, or is it. Did the Keys go to Peter or his church?

Lets rehash this. Blessed art thou Peter on this rock of truth that I am the Son of God I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it, And I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.

So it's still ambiguous did the keys go to Peter or the whole church, What is it they were binding and loosing?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Perhaps that is why he had Peter say it. Jesus was both "Son of God" and "Son of Man", Peter removed the ambiguity. If Peter said "You are a son of God" he would have meant you are an Israelite, a son of God. But Peter said "You are the Son of God" singular, meaning The Son of God. Yet still Jesus could have said it himself.

But if the spirit of prophecy is to reveal who the Lord is and is achieved by the Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet. Peter was reavealing who the Lord was by the Holy Spirit when he said, "You are the Son of God"

They use a lot of metaphors since Israel is not a literal "Son of God" , but like in Christianity lumps together it's people into one body.

Didn't you read what I said above? A Jew would never say to another, you are the son of God. Peter was a Jew and so
was Jesus. Jesus was "son of man" and proved it by dying. Son of man means "mortal". No one could be a literal son of God. The Greek doctrine of the demigod had no place in Judaism. Hence, it was recorded in Mat. 1:18 as a piece of Hellenistic literature.

 

[Kemosloby]

Didn't you read what I said above? A Jew would never say to another, you are the son of God. Peter was a Jew and so
was Jesus. Jesus was "son of man" and proved it by dying. Son of man means "mortal". No one could be a literal son of God. The Greek doctrine of the demigod had no place in Judaism. Hence, it was recorded in Mat. 1:18 as a piece of Hellenistic literature.

I did read it, but I find an error in your reasoning. Judaism does have a place for a man God. "And they will call him Emmanuel, meaning God with us"

Matt 1:23 "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[COGTHW]

Didn't you read what I said above? A Jew would never say to another, you are the son of God. Peter was a Jew and so
was Jesus. Jesus was "son of man" and proved it by dying. Son of man means "mortal". No one could be a literal son of God. The Greek doctrine of the demigod had no place in Judaism. Hence, it was recorded in Mat. 1:18 as a piece of Hellenistic literature.

If no one can be a son of God what was Adam. Son of dirt.? ; 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9 Explain this then.??

 

[COGTHW]

I think we're getting off track. Peter said "thou art the Son of God", the church is built either on that fact, Or Jesus said he would build his church on Peter. Yet I'll have to admit it's a mute point since Jesus gave the keys to Peter, or is it. Did the Keys go to Peter or his church?

Lets rehash this. Blessed art thou Peter on this rock of truth that I am the Son of God I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it, And I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.

So it's still ambiguous did the keys go to Peter or the whole church, What is it they were binding and loosing?

Kemosloby the keys are not keys me and you have for our cars. But the keys where power, and understandment. Just like the keys me and you have earthly they have power because if you don't have the right key for that lock you cant open that door. HALLELUJAH JESUS.!! And what bind mean in the Scriptures mean to hold or force. Hallelujah thank you Jesus. The Apostles was giving the keys= power and knowledge. Thank you Jesus for truth.

 

[Kemosloby]

Kemosloby the keys are not keys me and you have for our cars. But the keys where power, and understandment. Just like the keys me and you have earthly they have power because if you don't have the right key for that lock you cant open that door. HALLELUJAH JESUS.!! And what bind mean in the Scriptures mean to hold or force. Hallelujah thank you Jesus. The Apostles was giving the keys= power and knowledge. Thank you Jesus for truth.

I think you've got it. The key to heaven is believing Jesus is the Son of God, so he meant the key went to everybody. And when you said Jesus is the Son of God you know you hold the key.

 

[Ben Avraham]

If no one can be a son of God what was Adam. Son of dirt.? ; 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9 Explain this then.??

We are all children of God, no doubt but not literally. Even in a special way as Israel is the Son of God, but still not literally. And yes, "son of the dirty" as we all are. Hence, at death we all return to the dirty. (Ecclesiastes 12:7) But, this saying of yours that "whosoever is born of God does not commit sin," will get you in trouble with Jesus because, according to Ecclesiastes 7:20 and Mat. 23:13-33, Jesus was not without sin.