Once a cheater always a cheater

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Honestly, the whole discussion rests on loaded terminology and expectations about interpersonal relationships that I simply do not share. I don't stuff people into the category of "cheater" in the first place because I hold no expectation that a partner of mine only has to have sex with me. For so much emphasis to be placed on who has sex with whom is really very silly to me.

I suppose essentially what I'm suggesting is that instead of putting these labels to people, we accept them for who they are. Unconditional love and acceptance is what makes relationships work, sexual or otherwise.

But if you already have a mutal agreement to be sexually exclusive, are you saying the hurt isn't valid?
Also people do use cheating or the threat of cheating as a form of abuse.
I changed my view on sexual exclusively and thought the same way you do.
But now that I've been on the receiving end of shady manipulative behaviour I think the hurt is valid.
I think the real problem is assuming monogamy throughout the relationship without leaving the boundaries open for discussion.
Basically I think it's far more nuanced than ownership vs non ownership.

 

[Sunstone]

A cheater is someone who has cheated.

You are free to define "cheater" in any manner that you want. That's the great thing about words. They don't actually need to correspond to any particular reality in order to sound wise and truthful. "A cheater is someone who has cheated". Excellent. Doesn't necessarily tell us much, but excellent.

 

[columbus]

Some can change but usually once the person cheats and the person accepts them once again, they end up cheating again and repeat the cycle. A cheater is someone with little to no self control, is a liar and can't be trusted with many things.

It's really not always that simple, usually not.

Usually, the problems are on both sides. The most traumatic divorce I ever experienced was when two of my best friends split up, at around age 60.
Their mutual enthusiasm for many things, including sex, had waned over the decades. He still wanted it a lot. She didn't, she put most of her energy into church and charity.
He was ripe for the picking.
Then he wanted the divorce and she didn't. She knew that her attitude was a big part of the problem, but she would rather keep their lives together. He wanted a new life more than staying married.
It was one of the worst decisions he ever made. It took him a while to discover that most of the women he was attracted to were singles for a reason. He got the property and she got the rest. By the time he realised what he'd done she was gone.
That is just one story. The moral is: "Things aren't usually as simple as they appear".
Tom

 

[Theweirdtophat]

What's really stupid is that why can't they just say "I think we should see other people."? Instead of cheating on them and lying behind their back. If someone breaks up with me, it hurts but not as much as someone who pretends to love me but secretly dates someone else without me knowing. I see no reason to accept a a cheater. They made a mistake and can find someone else.

 

[Deidre]

Not sure, but there is an old saying but a good one…if he/she will do it with you…they will do it TO you.

Why would you want to begin a relationship with someone who cheated on someone else to be with you?

 

[anonymous9887]

What's really stupid is that why can't they just say "I think we should see other people."? Instead of cheating on them and lying behind their back. If someone breaks up with me, it hurts but not as much as someone who pretends to love me but secretly dates someone else without me knowing. I see no reason to accept a a cheater. They made a mistake and can find someone else.

Ok so let's say the individual was immature at the time, and they cheated. He is now labeled a cheater. Is there any hope at all that a cheater will change his ways or is he screwed, because that's just part of his person.

 

[anonymous9887]

Not sure, but there is an old saying but a good one…if he/she will do it with you…they will do it TO you.

Why would you want to begin a relationship with someone who cheated on someone else to be with you?

So would you say there is no hope for a cheater?

 

[columbus]

So would you say there is no hope for a cheater?

Definitely not. People learn from mistakes.
Realising that what you got wasn't worth what you paid is a big important lesson. Some people benefit from lessons, some not so much.
I know some very strong marriages where everyone learned from the mistakes made.
Tom

 

[Deidre]

Definitely not. People learn from mistakes.
Realising that what you got wasn't worth what you paid is a big important lesson. Some people benefit from lessons, some not so much.
I know some very strong marriages where everyone learned from the mistakes made.
Tom

Can’t imagine staying married to someone who did this. When there are plenty of people who won’t do that.

Idk. Yea, people can change…but, that’s just one of those deal breakers for me.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Ok so let's say the individual was immature at the time, and they cheated. He is now labeled a cheater. Is there any hope at all that a cheater will change his ways or is he screwed, because that's just part of his person.

Relationships work best with trust. If I can't trust them than I see no reason to be with them. They may change their ways later on, but I am certainly not going to risk getting hurt again. It's their fault as they lied and betrayed me. If they want to break up fine, but if they are so cowardly about it that they have to do it behind my back , I see no reason to be around them.

 

[Quintessence]

But I'm sure if you have a wife and she cheated on you, you would be very upset.

A wife is something I am absolutely certain I will never have. But considering I'm not that into sex, if a partner is, I would expect them to satisfy that need elsewhere, if not encourage it. Just don't get any diseases or anything. That's gross.

But if you already have a mutal agreement to be sexually exclusive, are you saying the hurt isn't valid?

No. Clearly, if there's a mutual agreement and they make their trust contingent on keeping such an agreement (which I don't think they should, but that's not really my business, is it?), there's a problem when that agreement isn't kept given they violated each other's expectations.

Also people do use cheating or the threat of cheating as a form of abuse.

I know. It's pretty sick. And frankly anyone who does that is already not worth anybody's time, whether they're monogamous or polygamous.

 

[anonymous9887]

Relationships work best with trust. If I can't trust them than I see no reason to be with them. They may change their ways later on, but I am certainly not going to risk getting hurt again. It's their fault as they lied and betrayed me. If they want to break up fine, but if they are so cowardly about it that they have to do it behind my back , I see no reason to be around them.

But can the individual change, maybe not for you, but will they continue cheating during their lifetime?

 

[columbus]

Can’t imagine staying married to someone who did this. When there are plenty of people who won’t do that

Sure there are.
But most of them are married and will stay so for the foreseeable future.
Tom

 

[Deidre]

Sure there are.
But most of them are married and will stay so for the foreseeable future.
Tom

Not sure of the relevance of your comment. There's plenty of awesome single people out there, who would never cheat.
Moral of the story...don't settle, because well...there's never a need to.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

My wife and I were having a discussion on the statement "once a cheater always a cheater". Do you believe this is true or false. Is there a possibility of a man who cheated before to now be faithful even if one man out there exist. I say there has to be at least one person can remain faithful after cheating.

Thoughts and opinions.
I agree your more likely to do it again, but it doesn't mean necessarily you will do it again.

Luke 15:7

"there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance"

I think this applies to ourselves also, arguably we may cherish monogamy more if we know first hand the consequences of betraying it?

Maybe the older we get the more we cherish a peaceful conscience in general for the same reason?

For the record I'm going on 20 years on the straight and narrow!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Most women seem to imply based on experience that the behavior will be repeated. Have you seen it for a fact, that a cheater has become faithful?

Yeah, I've seen it. People change. But a propensity to do something does suggest that there is increased risk of recurrence.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Considering humans are not disposed towards obligate monogamy in the first place... well... interpret that as you will. There is wisdom in accepting that people will come and go from your life. Some might stay for a long time. Others won't. Either way, the idea of owning a person is generally considered rather questionable today.

Owning? That's an interesting way to put it. My wife doesn't own me, but I made a vow to her of my own free will. There are reasons for that vow which I think are important. There are lots of things I am not pre-disposed to which I value, and I wouldn't see acting on my urges or base nature as a positive. For the record, I have zero issue with polygamy, open relationships, or whatever else. Neither would I consider any of those 'cheating'. A cheater is a vow breaker, to me, be they ritualised marriage vows, or simply a sincere promise between parties.

(eg. I was with my wife for 10 years before we got married. If I slept with someone else before our engagement I still would have considered this cheating, as would she)

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I think if someone is married for twenty or more years and only cheats once or twice, they're doing pretty good -- given that we as a species don't seem to be built for more than five to seven years of monogamy with any one partner. At least, that's what I've been told.

Then I'm a freak...lol
That is entirely possible I guess. But don't make a vow you don't feel up to keeping. *shrugs*

(It's simplistic, I'll admit. But ignoring specific circumstances, that is my general belief.)

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Interesting philosophy. And not just a little bit amusing.

There are precedents, though. Addicts commonly refer to themselves in this manner, no matter their period of abstinence, because they are recognizing their propensity, and (basically) trying to force themselves to be vigilant.

 

[Sunstone]

Then I'm a freak...lol
That is entirely possible I guess. But don't make a vow you don't feel up to keeping. *shrugs*

(It's simplistic, I'll admit. But ignoring specific circumstances, that is my general belief.)

Well, I think people who vow to remain faithful to each other should keep their vows. But I also think a lot of people who are not naturally inclined to twenty or thirty years of monogamy make such vows unwisely.