Once we live forever

[viole]

That bad weather is caused by bad people, is the oldest superstition known to mankind, vast ice sheets covered the ground I stand on only a few thousand years ago, and retreated thousands of miles without a single SUV,
Earth's climate is a fascinating dynamic system, once you look past the anthropomorphic magic.

Some even believe that cancer, earthquakes and tsunami can be caused by bad people. For instance, two people tempted by an apple with a talking serpent involved.

I find it refreshing that you consider that a superstition.

Ciao

- viole

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Some even believe that cancer, earthquakes and tsunami can be caused by bad people. For instance, two people temped by an apple with a talking serpent involved.

I find it refreshing that you consider that a superstition.

Ciao

- viole

I don't call it a superstition, nor do I call it a reality. I think, as are some other parts of the Bible, it was meant as allegory. In fact, looking at the Garden of Eden story in that light, I think it displays more core wisdom than is contained in the rest of the Bible. The Tree of Knowledge (of good and evil) coming from the consumption of its fruit, which leads to full self-awareness (including an understanding death), which further enables an understanding of our actions on others as if we were them, which evolves to the exercise of free will in choosing or ignoring that knowledge of good and evil--all in one sentence. And then, off in the distance, the enigmatic Tree of Life.

 

[viole]

I don't call it a superstition, nor do I call it a reality. I think, as are some other parts of the Bible, it was meant as allegory. In fact, looking at the Garden of Eden story in that light, I think it displays more core wisdom than is contained in the rest of the Bible. The Tree of Knowledge (of good and evil) coming from the consumption of its fruit, which leads to full self-awareness (including an understanding death), which further enables an understanding of our actions on others as if we were them, which evolves to the exercise of free will in choosing or ignoring that knowledge of good and evil--all in one sentence. And then, off in the distance, the enigmatic Tree of Life.

So, pursuing our self awareness, that led to enabling our moral agency and the exercise of free will, is the reason why God punished us so badly with a fallen world that generated cancer, genetic diseases, earthquakes, tsunamis, parasitic wasps, the Ebola virus, Mariah Carey and all?

You seem to indicate that God would have been more comfortable with amoral robots, after all. Or am I missing some other allegory here?

Ciao

- viole

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

So, pursuing our self awareness, that led to enabling our moral agency and the exercise of free will, is the reason why God punished us so badly with a fallen world that generated cancer, genetic diseases, earthquakes, tsunamis, parasitic wasps, the Ebola virus, Mariah Carey and all?

You seem to indicate that God would have been more comfortable with amoral robots, after all. Or am I missing some other allegory here?

Ciao

- viole

Noooooooo. God didn't punish us, it's another result of our self-awareness. Full self-awareness is based on the understanding of the universality and inevitability of death. We humans see it coming, but as animals we didn't. When that sank it, we knew we had to plan ahead and work for a better tomorrow instead of just living in the moment and following the dictates of instinct--a truly absurd notion for humans, at least for more than a few minutes at a time. And it's not a punishment, it's a necessity for the greatest gift of all, free will--the provision of which is the one and only motivation for creating the universe. An omnipotent God could do anything else instantly; for this we needed time.

And, btw, fully self-aware beings with free will are the exact opposite of amoral robots, though I don't know if the author of that part of Genesis understood that or not. Sometimes we discover or describe things without even knowing the profundity of what we saw/said/wrote.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Some even believe that cancer, earthquakes and tsunami can be caused by bad people.
For instance, two people tempted by an apple with a talking serpent involved.
I find it refreshing that you consider that a superstition.
Ciao
- viole

Jesus did mention that there would be bad happenings before the start of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth - Luke 21:11 - but Jesus did Not teach such things would be from God, or what the actual effect man would cause except that ' woe ' would be happening on Earth due to Satan's influence - Revelation 12:9; Revelation 12:12

That ' talking serpent' was really Satan. Just as a ventriloquist uses a dummy, Satan could have used that serpent.
It wasn't the temptation so much as it was the breaking of God's Law. You eat, you die.
Adam then was forever tainted by human imperfection. Adam's body would No longer maintain itself in healthy human perfection.
That is why at the birth of a child a parent knows its child's leanings will lean toward wrongdoing.
So, redemption is needed. Adam unbalanced the Scales of Justice. Sinless Jesus could balance that balancing scale for us.
Father Adam passed on ' his ' legacy to us. Whereas Jesus exchanged or redeemed us with the value of his sinless life.
Jesus could then restore healthy human perfection for us.
Science can't extend life spans past a certain point. Can't obtain everlasting life for us, but with Jesus there will be the world over a forever open door to new possibilities.
Isaiah 65:21-23 gives us a preview, or coming attraction, of meaningful activities that we will enjoy under Christ's millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
With endless life on Earth, worth-while endeavors will fill our joy-filled days. Days which can always strengthen our relationships with others the world over.
That is Not superstition but what the Bible really teaches.

 

[viole]

That ' talking serpent' was really Satan. Just as a ventriloquist uses a dummy, Satan could have used that serpent.
.

Yes, but God condemned the serpent to crawls on its belly and to eat dust all days of its life.

I don't see the point of condemning a dummy.

Ciao

- viole

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Yes, but God condemned the serpent to crawls on its belly and to eat dust all days of its life.

I don't see the point of condemning a dummy.

There's one if the story is an allegory.

 

[viole]

There's one if the story is an allegory.

If someone tells me that the talking serpent was really Satan, what should I think? That it was really an allegory?

And how can I say what is an allegory and what not? Is Jesus "dying" for our sins an allegory, too?

Ciao

- viole

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

If someone tells me that the talking serpent was really Satan, what should I think? That it was really an allegory?

You should think that Satan (the Devil, Lucifer, Beelzebub etc.) is allegory or a symbol for giving into temptation to do evil. Of course some people use it as an excuse (The DEVIL made me buy that dress), but all but the insane know they're lying to themselves, and even they may be aware.

And how can I say what is an allegory and what not?

If it's supernatural, it's either allegory, or history turned into an allegory such as Sodom or the Flood--real events "explained" to feed the fear of the massses. The Garden of Eden and Job are both, obviously, pure allegory due to internal indications.

Is Jesus "dying" for our sins an allegory, too?

....or Jesus dying for our sins, yes, the worst of the bunch. Jesus and John the Baptist taught repentance and restitution. Paul turned Jesus' martyrdom into an act of human sacrifice based on his boyhood hero in Tarsus, Mithrais, which was born of the principle of exchanging forgiveness with pagan human sacrifice, or even Jewish animal sacrifices. No one and nothing can die for our lack of repentance for the evil we do.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, but God condemned the serpent to crawls on its belly and to eat dust all days of its life.
I don't see the point of condemning a dummy.
Ciao
- viole

Please keep in mind that God was addressing Satan. It would be of No use to address and animal.- Genesis 3:14

For Satan to 'eat dust' in Bible speak would mean Satan would 'bite the dust' (die), and Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B

Not 'its' belly, but for Satan to ' crawl on ' his ' belly ' just shows Satan would have a lowly position - Genesis 3:14

 

[gnostic]

I don't see the point of having robots that could do everything for us.

It would be pointless existence, if we do nothing but laze around. I would be bored out of my mind.

And I don't see the point of living for ever, if we have nothing to do.

And I wouldn't want to live forever in the first place, especially if I can't remain healthy and active. If living longer mean being bedridden, with all sorts of tubes inserted into my body, then no thanks.

 

[gnostic]

Please keep in mind that God was addressing Satan. It would be of No use to address and animal.- Genesis 3:14

No where does Genesis mention Satan.

For Satan to 'eat dust' in Bible speak would mean Satan would 'bite the dust' (die), and Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B

And I couldn't give a crap what Hebrews have to say, since it is not talking about anything relating to Genesis. And Christian authors constantly warped the Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh or Old Testament) out of proportion.

No where in the OT does Satan represent as God's enemy or the title Christians have given him - the "Devil".

Why should I take Paul or WHOEVER wrote Hebrews seriously, when he was there to witness anything about Satan.

And if it is Paul (as the author), Paul met never met Jesus, let alone Satan.

I would put this in allegory bin.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No where does Genesis mention Satan.
And I couldn't give a crap what Hebrews have to say, since it is not talking about anything relating to Genesis. And Christian authors constantly warped the Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh or Old Testament) out of proportion.
No where in the OT does Satan represent as God's enemy or the title Christians have given him - the "Devil".
Why should I take Paul or WHOEVER wrote Hebrews seriously, when he was there to witness anything about Satan.
And if it is Paul (as the author), Paul met never met Jesus, let alone Satan.
I would put this in allegory bin.

Agree, Satan is Not mentioned by name in Genesis.
The literal serpent in Genesis is long dead, but the 'serpent' addressed at Genesis 3:15 is still alive and kicking .- Romans 16:20; Revelation 12:9; Revelation 12:12
Satan is also Not mentioned by name at Ezekiel 28:13-15; Ezekiel 28:16-17 but who was the covering cherub in Eden but the one later named in Scripture as Satan the devil.

How do you explain Satan found in the old Hebrew Scriptures at Job1:6-8; Job 1:9; Job 1:12; Job 2:1-3; Job 2:4-6

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Agree, Satan is Not mentioned by name in Genesis.
The literal serpent in Genesis is long dead, but the 'serpent' addressed at Genesis 3:15 is still alive and kicking .- Romans 16:20; Revelation 12:9; Revelation 12:12
Satan is also Not mentioned by name at Ezekiel 28:13-15; Ezekiel 28:16-17 but who was the covering cherub in Eden but the one later named in Scripture as Satan the devil.

How do you explain Satan found in the old Hebrew Scriptures at Job1:6-8; Job 1:9; Job 1:12; Job 2:1-3; Job 2:4-6

It's ALL self-serving hearsay, that's how.

 

[paarsurrey]

I have an urgent question and hope to get creative answers to this question.
Once science has evolved so far that we have robots to do everything for us, so litteraly everything possible can be done by robots to help humans, a human litleraly doesn't have to do anything anymore and can also 'live forever' by biomechanical means etc.. By that time most of the universe(s) is also explored, wars are over and science can explain virtualy everything (and what is still unexplained could be investigated succesfully quiet fast by the robots). With a little imagination, a situation which could become reality given enough time and resources to humankind.
Now the question is this. Currently a human has 'needs' and 'feelings', he 'needs' to feed to stay alive and has 'feelings' to 'feel' alive. Once the 'super-robots' are in place these 2 basic things that make us human will slowly fade away. First the 'needs' because off course we'll first create enough robots (and make robots that can make new robots etc.) to fullfil all our needs and later our 'feelings' will fade away because once we realize a robot can give us any feeling any time we like. As you see while science evolves, our 'humanity' is 'dying' at that time. Now, what can we do to keep feeling alive and continue to have a reason to live during that era?

As long as we have the bodies that we have, our needs will remain there, notwithstanding robots or super-robots or no robots .
As long as we have the souls we have our feelings will remain there,notwithstanding robots or super-robots or no robots .
Our bodies got the form we have through a process fixed for us by G-d and of course our souls also for which we have our feelings and sentiments.
G-d is our Sustainer.

Regards

 

[Papoon]

I don't call it a superstition, nor do I call it a reality. I think, as are some other parts of the Bible, it was meant as allegory. In fact, looking at the Garden of Eden story in that light, I think it displays more core wisdom than is contained in the rest of the Bible. The Tree of Knowledge (of good and evil) coming from the consumption of its fruit, which leads to full self-awareness (including an understanding death), which further enables an understanding of our actions on others as if we were them, which evolves to the exercise of free will in choosing or ignoring that knowledge of good and evil--all in one sentence. And then, off in the distance, the enigmatic Tree of Life.

Actually, it is the sacrament (drug) used by the pre-christian Essenes.
John Allegro, working for the Vatican, worked on the translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls. They didn't want it published, lol.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_Criss

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Actually, it is the sacrament (drug) used by the pre-christian Essenes.
John Allegro, working for the Vatican, worked on the translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls. They didn't want it published, lol.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_Criss

???So we literally became fully self-aware because of something we ingest??? Do we have guards keeping animals away from it?

Not sure if you posted this tongue-in-cheek or not.

 

[paarsurrey]

As long as we have the bodies that we have, our needs will remain there, notwithstanding robots or super-robots or no robots .
As long as we have the souls we have our feelings will remain there,notwithstanding robots or super-robots or no robots .
Our bodies got the form we have through a process fixed for us by G-d and of course our souls also for which we have our feelings and sentiments.
G-d is our Sustainer.

We won't live forever. We are destined to die.
Regards

 

[Etritonakin]

I have an urgent question and hope to get creative answers to this question.

Once science has evolved so far that we have robots to do everything for us, so litteraly everything possible can be done by robots to help humans, a human litleraly doesn't have to do anything anymore and can also 'live forever' by biomechanical means etc.. By that time most of the universe(s) is also explored, wars are over and science can explain virtualy everything (and what is still unexplained could be investigated succesfully quiet fast by the robots). With a little imagination, a situation which could become reality given enough time and resources to humankind.

Now the question is this. Currently a human has 'needs' and 'feelings', he 'needs' to feed to stay alive and has 'feelings' to 'feel' alive. Once the 'super-robots' are in place these 2 basic things that make us human will slowly fade away. First the 'needs' because off course we'll first create enough robots (and make robots that can make new robots etc.) to fullfil all our needs and later our 'feelings' will fade away because once we realize a robot can give us any feeling any time we like. As you see while science evolves, our 'humanity' is 'dying' at that time. Now, what can we do to keep feeling alive and continue to have a reason to live during that era?

Skynet will give us plenty of needs and feelings.

 

[Papoon]

???So we literally became fully self-aware because of something we ingest??? Do we have guards keeping animals away from it?

Not sure if you posted this tongue-in-cheek or not.

Yes, we do have guards keeping animals (us) away from it.
The post is not tongue-in-cheek.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are our only real source of information about proto-Christianity. The Vatican threatened Mr Allegro with excommunication if he published the translation. But he no longer cared, the cat was out of the bag.
"This is my blood, this is my body"

You may find more useful education here...
Rupert Sheldrake...the BANNED (the guards are still at it) TED talk...