God is ALL of Existence and everything exists from him, but does not mean we can worship his creation.
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One God or many gods
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
That is also true, it is only when we are not one with God that there is a tendency to worship his creation. God may be his creation, but his creation is not God. God is me, but I am not God, when I understand this and am prepared to sacrifice the ego self of matter to be born of the heavenly spirit, the next step of creation takes place, an angel.
Bharat Jhunjhunwala
TruthPrevails
Whether we can worship the creation of God depends upon what is the purpose. In Hinduism we have a saying that ‘one should use a thorn to remove the thorn that is in your skin, and then throw throughout both’. I think that is the method we have to see the worship of creation. If a Muslim goes to Kaba and he begins to understand the true essence of God, then he does not have to come to the Kaaba again and again. Similarly, if a Christian really begins to identify with the teachings of Jesus, then he becomes free of the cross and he can get rid of the cross. So, worship of God's creation for strategic purposes of getting to the God is perfectly acceptable.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Thoughtful comment. I have a question related to this, like many folk I suppose, I have always been conscious of my appearance; I groom and exercise my body daily but am getting on in years now, so, could this now conditioned predisposition related to the physical body's appearance and stamina, be seen as a form of 'worship of the creation', a thorn in the skin? Mind you, I do worship the Creator.
If yes, what would be the 'thorn to remove the thorn'? If too hard, leave it!
Bharat Jhunjhunwala
TruthPrevails
The thorn in the case of physical body would be the attachment to the body. If one tries to look good beyond a certain point, one feels that looking good itself become irrelevant that would be using the idea of grooming to get rid of the idea of grooming itself.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I think I get what you mean, I will try it.
Bharat Jhunjhunwala
TruthPrevails
Welcome and Thank You and please update me on your experiences.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
So what happened when I tried to look beyond a certain point, was that I got lost in the sense of the greater glory of existence itself, a bliss beyond the physical. As I have been continuing this practice, it has become easier to slip into this, more or less transcendent state, with a lessoning of attention to the physical appearance normally, just a habitual routine.
Thank you Bharat.
Bharat Jhunjhunwala
TruthPrevails
I suppose persons like Jesus and Moses were able to continuously connect with the both external and internal. I am trying to move in that direction.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Exactly, same for Gautama, and all those of all cultures, and of all times, who have attained to the 'union' of the manifest/external and the unmanifest/internal. And yes, my goal also is to move in that direction. All the best with your 'realization'.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
One God or many gods
There is and can be only One/G-d by default, neither none nor many, one must say:
14:11
Their Messengers said, ‘Are you in doubt concerning Allah, Maker of the heavens and the earth? He calls you that He may forgive you your sins, and grant you respite till an appointed term.’ They said, ‘You are but men like ourselves; you desire to turn us away from that which our fathers used to worship. Bring us, then, a clear proof.’
14:12
Their Messengers said to them, ‘We are indeed only men like yourselves, but Allah bestows His favour on whomsoever He wills from among His servants. And it is not for us to bring you a proof except by the command of Allah. And in Allah alone should the believers put their trust.
www.alislam.org
Right?
Regards
____________________________
14:11
قَالَتۡ رُسُلُہُمۡ اَفِی اللّٰہِ شَکٌّ فَاطِرِ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالۡاَرۡضِ ؕ یَدۡعُوۡکُمۡ لِیَغۡفِرَ لَکُمۡ مِّنۡ ذُنُوۡبِکُمۡ وَیُؤَخِّرَکُمۡ اِلٰۤی اَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّی ؕ قَالُوۡۤا اِنۡ اَنۡتُمۡ اِلَّا بَشَرٌ مِّثۡلُنَا ؕ تُرِیۡدُوۡنَ اَنۡ تَصُدُّوۡنَا عَمَّا کَانَ یَعۡبُدُ اٰبَآؤُنَا فَاۡتُوۡنَا بِسُلۡطٰنٍ مُّبِیۡنٍ ﴿۱۱
14:12
قَالَتۡ لَہُمۡ رُسُلُہُمۡ اِنۡ نَّحۡنُ اِلَّا بَشَرٌ مِّثۡلُکُمۡ وَلٰکِنَّ اللّٰہَ یَمُنُّ عَلٰی مَنۡ یَّشَآءُ مِنۡ عِبَادِہٖ ؕ وَمَا کَانَ لَنَاۤ اَنۡ نَّاۡتِیَکُمۡ بِسُلۡطٰنٍ اِلَّا بِاِذۡنِ اللّٰہِ ؕ وَعَلَی اللّٰہِ فَلۡیَتَوَکَّلِ الۡمُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ ﴿۱۲
There is and can be only One/G-d by default, neither none nor many, one must say:
14:11
Their Messengers said, ‘Are you in doubt concerning Allah, Maker of the heavens and the earth? He calls you that He may forgive you your sins, and grant you respite till an appointed term.’ They said, ‘You are but men like ourselves; you desire to turn us away from that which our fathers used to worship. Bring us, then, a clear proof.’
14:12
Their Messengers said to them, ‘We are indeed only men like yourselves, but Allah bestows His favour on whomsoever He wills from among His servants. And it is not for us to bring you a proof except by the command of Allah. And in Allah alone should the believers put their trust.
Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search
In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.
Right?
Regards
____________________________
14:11
قَالَتۡ رُسُلُہُمۡ اَفِی اللّٰہِ شَکٌّ فَاطِرِ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالۡاَرۡضِ ؕ یَدۡعُوۡکُمۡ لِیَغۡفِرَ لَکُمۡ مِّنۡ ذُنُوۡبِکُمۡ وَیُؤَخِّرَکُمۡ اِلٰۤی اَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّی ؕ قَالُوۡۤا اِنۡ اَنۡتُمۡ اِلَّا بَشَرٌ مِّثۡلُنَا ؕ تُرِیۡدُوۡنَ اَنۡ تَصُدُّوۡنَا عَمَّا کَانَ یَعۡبُدُ اٰبَآؤُنَا فَاۡتُوۡنَا بِسُلۡطٰنٍ مُّبِیۡنٍ ﴿۱۱
14:12
قَالَتۡ لَہُمۡ رُسُلُہُمۡ اِنۡ نَّحۡنُ اِلَّا بَشَرٌ مِّثۡلُکُمۡ وَلٰکِنَّ اللّٰہَ یَمُنُّ عَلٰی مَنۡ یَّشَآءُ مِنۡ عِبَادِہٖ ؕ وَمَا کَانَ لَنَاۤ اَنۡ نَّاۡتِیَکُمۡ بِسُلۡطٰنٍ اِلَّا بِاِذۡنِ اللّٰہِ ؕ وَعَلَی اللّٰہِ فَلۡیَتَوَکَّلِ الۡمُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ ﴿۱۲
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I personally share your belief that there is only one God. However, there are perfectly intelligent, reasonable, and good people who believe in more than on, or in no god at all. I don't think either science or logic can prove the existence of any god, or how many there are.
River Sea
Well-Known Member
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
4th millennium BCE is of what material? The Bronze material?
4th millennium BC - Wikipedia
The 4th millennium BC spanned the years 4000 BC to 3001 BC. Some of the major changes in human culture during this time included the beginning of the Bronze Age and the invention of writing, which played a major role in starting recorded history.
@GoodAttention would 4th millennium be Matriarchal or Patriarchal or both societies?
River Sea
Well-Known Member
@GoodAttention are archangel Michael and angel Gabriel of Matriarchal or Patriarchal society? What Millenium were these angels happening around people with in this society?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yes, the 4th millenium BCE was the bronze age. There wasn't any particular single empire, but mostly a plethora of city states. Even Egypt was not yet considered an empire, as this was during its pre-dynastic era. Same thing for Sumer.
GoodAttention
Well-Known Member
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
4th millennium BCE is of what material? The Bronze material?
4th millennium BC - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The 4th millennium BC spanned the years 4000 BC to 3001 BC. Some of the major changes in human culture during this time included the beginning of the Bronze Age and the invention of writing, which played a major role in starting recorded history.
@GoodAttention would 4th millennium be Matriarchal or Patriarchal or both societies?
There is only one potential Ionian/Matriarchal society and that is the Indus Valley Civilization in my opinion.
I do not know of any other society in history that I would describe as matriarchal, except for the Tamil culture (to a degree).
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Could you say something about how Siva found you?
My sampradaya within Hinduism is a mystical one, so we follow intuition. I was about 18, walking in a 'hippy' shop in the old 'Gastown' district in Vancouver, BC, probably early 70s, like about 1972, and there was a statue of Nataraja on the counter behind the shopkeeper's till. I had never seen one before, (or at least hadn't cognized what it represented) but the imagery really caught my eye, and I stared at it. Wandering around the shop a bit, I kept getting pulled back to that spot. The shopkeeper, a Sikh (or perhaps a turban-wearing Hindu, at the time I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference) noticed, and asked, "Do you meditate on that?" My immediate response was "Yes." even though I didn't, but didn't know what else to say.
I had very little money with me, as I had hitchhiked out there from here, and was staying with a cousin, (800 miles) and the statue would be almost all the money I had. After not sleeping well that night, and dreaming about it, the next morning I went back and purchased Him. He has been the central figure of my worship ever since, and a larger statue is the centerpiece of my home shrine, and a much larger 6 foot one is the central deity in my sampradaya at the headquarters where my Guru is.
Hope that helps. The key to understand intuition is that it comes unbidden. This was unbidden.